01-06-2004 23:41									#301
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Yes, I know commie is good for late game, but if you are not religiuos, that is not an easy switch.

Plus in some games, you may not get that tech in time to apply it.
Due to the far flung empire, it is very appealing. I probably am too reluctant to suffer the anarchy as a general rule, but I always seem to be in a spot where I cannot stop production for all those turns.

It may well be worth the cost in many cases, but I can tell I don't need it, so I don't.

	02-06-2004 04:23									#302
	Increase Your PM Length

I didn’t switch in my Swiss game until after it was won and then I went back to earlier saves to test. I did switch in my current game and still got the ToE and the tech lead. I may have been a bit more motivated since I ended up in feudalism somehow. I thought I’d pressed the tab for Republic but nooooo… I found myself in feudy and couldn’t restart due to HOF rules. It wasn’t that bad but I doubt I’ll play it again anytime soon.

	02-06-2004 13:33									#303
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I never tried republic at Sid, it just does not seem to make sense. I get to monarchy and stay there. If you can boost towns to cities, you get more support.

Sorry, but I did. Republic is just fine for a Sid PP game

	02-06-2004 14:15									#304
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yea im sticking with Republic ATM.

i reckon with relatievly small military (for sid standard) i can take out the backward CIVs. becuase of the way the reasorces are in this map im leaving tackilng the bigger AIs till the late game.

for my wars im considering using the tactic of razing all captured cities and leaving them for a few turns before settling. ive few reasons for thinking this.

my culture is so low in comparison to AI that i cant afford to try deal with Cultureflipping. also this would effect any new borders i establish.
the empty space will hopefully entice the AI to try to REX into it, distract it from producing pure units.
im hopefull that this will mean most of my defending will be done outside cities and more importantly outside my Borders so those large enemy stacks will not cause any WW

i am resigning myself to the possibility of having to do another Gov switch. but only near the late game stage when money wont be important to meh. but i for the way ive played the game so far it would be pointless to be in any other gov than one which produces the most commerce

again vmxa1 i feel that gold is the one Area where i have clear advantage becuase the AI gets no bonuses here in SID. also i feel in archi maps my home island is safe so im not gunna have a militiary untill i need one. also i think i will disband my unused military rather than keep it and pay support. i will disband obsolete military in newly founded cities to reduce the cost when i rush buy all the improvements i want in those cities. as i see it this saves me well over a hundred or so Gold per rush (each shield costs 4gp in a rush buy, but if no shields already there then cost is much higher, ive no data to back this but ive investigated b4). i see no real loss in terms of production becuase many of my cities are producing wealth. i can just switch these to units. its then a matter of micromanaging the movement of my Sacrificial lambs

	02-06-2004 19:57									#305
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Sounds like an interesting strategy. Let us know how it works out.

	02-06-2004 21:56									#306
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage Sorry, but I did. Republic is just fine for a Sid PP game

Nothing to be sorry about and I know you did. AFAIK you are the only one. I would not, remember I am not going to be using diplomacy in my games. I will not be on good terms with anyone.

When civs contact me with a goofy offer I always say not a chance. Once a war starts, I rarely make peace. Given the number of troops the AI has, the wars can last the whole game, this is not good for Republic.

I don't say this is the only way or even the best way, just my way.

	02-06-2004 22:13									#307
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Mr Justice I hope it works for you. I would not worry a great deal about my homeland as the AI will probably not land large numbers there.

My concern would be that you need more land to hold your own and you can't get it without a large force. You also need to reduce the number of civs, this slows down the tech.
So you want to eliminate two civs, if you can.

I don't know if you have ever attempted to take down a civ on Sid before or not. Even the most backward civ with as few as 8 cities will muster up at least 400 units. By the time you take them out, you will have killed 700 or more.

If these are merely spears and archers you will have a hard time holding a beach head. Have you ever had 80 to 100 units attack you every turn for 4 or 5 turns?

This has happened to me many times and if they have horses as well, it is unerving, You will need muskets and a few armies and a steady flow of replacements.

Even then you want to have founded on a hill for defense. By the time they tapper down to only 20 or so, you can start to attack, if you have the troops.

If you try it with a civ that has rifles and calvs, I don't even want to talk about it. I have had them rip up my infantry armies with sheer numbers.

So keep us posted with the efforts.

	02-06-2004 23:24									#308
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 This has happened to me many times and if they have horses as well, it is unerving, You will need muskets and a few armies and a steady flow of replacements.

Swiss Mercenaries are an inexpensive musket replacement.

You might consider landing a settler under the cover of an army once the AI is ready to make peace. The next turn you build your city, make peace, and then build your walls and barracks while landing your garrison troops. Saves on ship building and allows you to determine when the real battle will begin. Bring at least 30 bombard units although 60 is much more comfortable. With a few armies you can direct the flow of enemy troops into the battle zone and also gain a few turn breather for your troops to heal by shifting armies and making the AI travel around them to renew the attack. Good luck.

	03-06-2004 01:58									#309
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Drachen the Swiss Merc is a pike replacement. Anyway if you are going after a civ that is on a small island with about 8 to 10 cities, in the ancient age, you won't have many ships.

They will not make peace until you beat the crap out of them and there is no reason to accept at that point. The whole idea is I want the land and them out of the game.

I won't have 30 or 60 archers and I won't have enough ships to bring them if I did. I have to land with one or two armies and add the extra units to them right away. The AI will likely not attack this stack.

I am counting on them being pretty close, so I can ferry units over to augment my original force.

The next guy will be stronger and more advanced than the first one. BY then all will be in contact.

In games were I have to go after civs later, I can bring a lot of transports and tank armies. Drop a settler and maybe found a city right away. Sometimes, you have to take a city before you can found one or use it. It depends on if they have covered all the land or not.

Now I am fighting at least calvs and cities are going to have rifles.
I may have bombers and carriers by then to help me soften things up, but it is a lot of effort.

	03-06-2004 04:01									#310
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Hey Vmxa;

I’m beginning to develop a standard approach to Sid now and I think my preferred mix is a bit more builder oriented than yours. I play out starts in which I have a decent landmass to myself and I tend to do everything I can to shorten my time to Philosophy and Literature after the initial 50 turns to Writing. This tends to halt my rex until I’ve got Philosophy in my pocket and so after that I resume my REX, finish off the GL, build infrastructure, change government, and build my military. I try to get myself into a war with the neighboring AI about this time, secure my island, and generate a few armies.

The AI will be open to peace after you knock off enough of its galley dropped units and that’s when I drop the settler on their Island. I’m usually well into medieval by the time all this gets accomplished and so I honor the peace treaty using the time to buildup in my invasion city with units like…the Swiss Mercenary (SM).

I agree that SMs are designated as pike replacements, but to speak more precisely I use them in place of muskets. If you had your choice, would you build a bunch of 30 shield SMs with 1/4/1 stats or half as many muskets at 60 shields with 2/4/1 stats? I can’t remember ever having used muskets on offence and with their anemic attack strength I doubt if I ever would in common situations. Cheap SMs are able defenders when facing medieval units and when used in conjunction with a few defensive bonuses they can seriously reduce an AI military over the course of several turns.

I tend to go after one of the big AIs for my first invasion, if I can get to them, but it sounds like you might favor starting earlier and going after some of the smaller AIs. It sounds like an interesting approach and I’d be interested in some screenshots and commentary if you’d care to post.

	03-06-2004 05:37									#311
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Actually that is very similar to what I attempt. If I am alone, that is. I will beeline for the GL, getting my pumps going.

Then start a build up to be prepared for any landings. The top dog is often the first to show and I want them to send more (piecemeal) for leader builds.

About this time I am getting some galleys up to attack a weak civ, if it is close. This happens in the middle ages for me.

I am not up for the KAI, I intend to leave them alone for the most part.

Yes any civ attacking from a distance will accept peace at some point, usually a long time later. I am not concerned abut them, I thought you were talking about the civ your are invading. Otherwise what is the settler for? If I invade it is elimination time. They cannot share the land, I do not want to have to watch my back that closely.

Yes SM's can be used, but only one civ has them, so I talk about musket. Pikes are not good enough to with stand the counter attacks. I will use musket to kill of 1 HP units in front of me, I probably would not if they were SM's.

You know I won with Space launch, not exactly a warmonger ploy.

I am trying to talk myself into going for a SirPleb type game, where you just use nothing but troops to conquer. So far I have not been able to sell it to myself, to much work. It seems like fun, but I know that when you get to the point that you have 6-700 troops and maybe 20 armies or more with so many cities, it will become tiresome.

	03-06-2004 08:12									#312
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Yes any civ attacking from a distance will accept peace at some point, usually a long time later. I am not concerned abut them, I thought you were talking about the civ your are invading. Otherwise what is the settler for? If I invade it is elimination time. They cannot share the land, I do not want to have to watch my back that closely.

I was talking about the AI you’re trying to invade. You go to war with them early and when they’re ready to make peace you found your settlement. Why? Because you’re going to need a lot of units in your invasion city and you can get them in place with fewer losses if you don’t have the AI throwing hundreds of units at you. You’re going to want walls, barracks, and roads around your city and that takes a couple of turns at least. You can have a smaller navy if you transport in waves. It just seems to me that setting up the battle zone to your liking makes more sense than going in under fire when the cost is just a little bit of time in a long game.

	03-06-2004 08:43									#313
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No roads, until I have control of the surrounding area. I do not want to have workers out and have to guard them. In fact I probably do not have any workers at this time.

Like I said, if I invade it is final. No peace, I will be in despotism or monarchy and not have any WW issues. If I land and they cannot throw me off in the first two turns or so, they are toast. I will grind them out.

I may found a city right away, if I can and if I do, I will rush a barrack. Then a temple, then a lib.

The wall, I don't need as by the time I could put it up (3rd turn or later), I have already made it pass the rough time.

I would rather get some culture going to let me have access to more roads and deny it to them.

As to peace, they just do not seem to offer until at least 20 turns or the lost of lots of cities.

even the game I am playing now, I have been at war with them for so long, I forgotten. I have taken lots of cities and kill everything in range, but not a peep for peace.

I have a spy, so I know they are getting thin on troops and lost 15 or more cities. I took their only oil. I took saltpetter and lux, but they have not even contacted me.

To bad for them as I have lots of armies and will be using tanks very soon. My point is, I just do not see the AI asking for peace quickly at any level.

	03-06-2004 15:04									#314
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im just getting ready for an invasion of Arabia, to my left. its 890AD, so im feeling the time pressure.

the geopolitical situation is that there is a major war currently being waged between the 3 biggest AIs, some of the smaller AIs are also involved. Russia is top dog, tho hittites are the highest culture and score. roughly its russia (#2) and babylon (#3) and america (#7) against hittites (#1) and egypt (#9) and celts (#8)
im #4 and aribia is #6. only other civ is mongols #5.

that is perfect for me. i ve kept all the big AIs polite to me and i dont think im percieved as a threat. this will allow me to wage wars against some of the minor CIVs without worring about my back (ie im chancing leaving no military on my lands).

im not sure i agree with your point about reducing the number of Civs vmxa1, russia, teritorially the biggest CIV, is engaged in a number of inter island wars and as far as i can see, the most units their sending as invasions is 8. obviously thats far to small a force to defeat the much weaker (even tho spearmen is their main defenders) AIS, its just depleating and distracting russia.

im planning to invade Arabia with a force of 20 SM, 20 Trech and 20 or so knights. their best unit is swordsman, but predominatley spearmen and archers. (theyve stalled their own economy). once the war starts my GA will kick off and knights production will peak at around 10 every 3 turns or so.i can take their iron and horses out on the first turn of the war. ive about 15 turns left on my horses Deal. its a small force i know, but i can land on hills and follow the chain of hills down the island. my SMs with hill defence bonuses against at best Swordsmen. ofc im counting on them attacking me with those big stacks. i dont yet have enuf knights to take out the ~20 units defending each of arabias cities (34 in capital, id estimate ~200 for the civ). i will have around 18 caravels to handle the invasion and the subsequent resupply (i will use a chain of carevels). it will take me another 5-10 turns before i have all the units in the right positions to begin.
depending on WW, i might break the invasion into 2 stages with short peace period between. (i always request peace, no point waiting for them to offer, am hoping anyway.). ive also a supply of 6 settlers for the subsequent colinization.dont need workers. not sure if this will work, i'll keep my save warm.

other important developments are that ive definately gotten Smiths GW. ive 10 turns to completion, and only 1 other civ has the tech and he aint building it.my economy is booming at +467gpt (823 incomming gp, 205 corruption, 119 maint, ~40gp support and rising)
ive still no FP. i want to build it in arabia and make that island productive. smiths GW should save me in the region of 60 gpt atm.

found some more sources of saltpeter (1 in arabia), but im thinking of bypassing calvary altogether. and waiting for tanks. also iron appeared on my island, but not that useful cause i had already secured that. im confident that i will have the main industrial reasources on my land (i started with no iron, horses and saltpeter) i deserve a break .

i am worried that russia is going to far ahead. they are slight tech leaders (over hittites, im 3rd in tech), but they have between 25-50% of their homeland railroaded. im about 3 techs from industrial. im gunna have to build up my worker supply again. i reduced it by half to grow my main cities. i will use new cities and outlying cities on my island to build these.


{edit}
Vmxa1, im not building any librarys or unis, so culture is a no no for meh. im not doing any of my own reasearch and Culture points confer no benifit to me so im not trying to maximise culture points.
the only buildings ive built is granery, aquaduct, temple, cathedral, marketplace, harbors, banks and courthouses.

Last edited by Mr Justice on 03-06-2004 at 15:14

	03-06-2004 20:46									#315
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 No roads, until I have control of the surrounding area. I do not want to have workers out and have to guard them. In fact I probably do not have any workers at this time. Like I said, if I invade it is final. No peace, I will be in despotism or monarchy and not have any WW issues. If I land and they cannot throw me off in the first two turns or so, they are toast. I will grind them out.

Why would you guard workers if you’re not at war? At any rate, I can see some benefits to your approach but I’ll probably continue doing things my way. I just prefer giving my troops every benefit I can and that means walls and barracks up with fortified troops inside. In my latest invasion I lost almost no troops to the first AI counter attack on my town and after I got three infantry armies fortified inside he stopped attacking even though he had huge stacks milling about outside the town. This was a bit of a problem as I always count on the AI trashing its military on my walls and then mopping up afterwards. We got it done though and I now control the entire island of the Aztecs who were at #2 at wars outset. I’m the current tech leader and I plan to take out the AIs who can’t be mollified, Aztecs and Byzantines, followed by a rush to the UN and an alliance against France at #1.

I’m playing as the Vikings in this game Vmxa and I was wondering who you decided to go with. Also, I’ve generated a lot of maps for the English and if anyone would be interested I’d be willing to ferret out a good one for a few of us to try. I think Elizabeth could be a good choice at Sid although not as strong as the Dutch.

	03-06-2004 21:04									#316
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quote: Originally posted by Mr Justice i am worried that russia is going to far ahead. they are slight tech leaders (over hittites, im 3rd in tech), but they have between 25-50% of their homeland railroaded. im about 3 techs from industrial.

You’re at a very touchy point of the game Mr. Justice. This is where I always got broken in the many games I lost at Sid. If Russia has railroads up then they almost certainly have Communism and Fascism. They really are too far ahead and you need to find a way to slow them down enough for you to catch up. How do you plan to stop them before they get the UN or Spaceship win?

As to your invasion I think 20 SM is a bit thin but just might work. I lost a stack of 12 Invading SM on a hill in one of my games and the AI didn’t even work up a sweat. If you know how many troops the AI has nearby you might want to get to a combat calculator to check the odds.

Good luck

	03-06-2004 21:21									#317
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Drachen I was tlking about being at war, hence I can't use workers for a while.

Anyway there are many way to play. My whole idea to to bounce thoughts back and forth to see if one is better than the other.

I don't care who comes up with it, I just want to learn it.

	03-06-2004 21:33									#318
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Mr Justice understand that losing a dozen units a turn will not hurt a KAI. It probably has built all the units it can support.

This means losing some allows it to make more and maybe even better ones. The AI on islands will soon get to the point that it has noting to build, but troops. After a time, it will built to the point that is cannot support another one.


This occurs when you are doing a good job of slowing down the tech race.

A railed KAI is basically invulerable to your invasion, unless you have been doing nothing but war the whole game and have 40 or more armies with 100 or more transports.

They will have at least 1200 units and be able to bring 500 to bear instanly.

If you wait for tanks you will be in a bigger whole, you must expand. What is you plan for winning? You can't count on a vote, even if the others are at war. You can't be sure about a space launch as you may not even have the resources needed for all the parts. No others come to mind.

Hope the wa goes well, you may find a nasty surprise with those numbers and units though.

	03-06-2004 21:35									#319
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quote: [SIZE=1] Anyway there are many way to play. My whole idea to to bounce thoughts back and forth to see if one is better than the other. I don't care who comes up with it, I just want to learn it.

We are in complete agreement on this.

So, what tribe are you playing and would you be interested in an English start?

	03-06-2004 21:50									#320
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***The formula presented below is accurate for PTW. It is probably also good for C3C, once the additional difficulty levels (e.g. Sid) have been added.

This is the formula for research cost for v1.29f.

Research Cost = [MM * [10*COST * (1 - N/[CL*1.75])]/(CF * 10)] - Research done so far

Research Cost and research done so far are in gold.

Square brackets indicate truncation /rounddown

MM = map modifier(tech rate on world sizes tab in the editor)
Tiny 160
Small 200
Standard 240
Large 320
Huge 400

CF = AI cost factor(as on the difficulty tab in the editor)
For the purposes of the research cost formula, CF has a maximum value of 10.
Chieftain 10
Warlord 10
Regent 10
Monarch 9
Emperor 8
Deity 6
Sid 4

COST = technology cost as on the civilization advances tab in the editor.

N = number of civs on the diplomacy screen that have discovered the tech.

CL = number of civs left in the game

There is only one part of the formula that varies during the game: (1 - N/[CL*1.75]). There are two ways in which you can increase it to lower tech cost:
1. Increase N by exploring and buying comms to add civs to your diplomacy screen.
2. Decrease CL by killing civs.

NB. This formula is relevant for research cost of the AI civs, not just the human player. If you are interested in the research cost of a specific technology for a specific AI civ, N refers to the number of civs on that specific AI civ's diplomacy screen that have discovered that specific tech. In general, there are two ways in which you can increase AI tech cost:
3. Keep N low by not selling comms to AI civs.
4. Keep CL high by not killing civs.
And technically...
5. Keep N low by not getting techs yourself.

**************

So as you can see eliminaton of civs will slow down the tech pace for the AI. The whole purpose of a huge map on archipelago is to slow the contacts and hence the tech pace.

Keeping them at war will slow down the pace as well. But in the end a KAI will soon be able to make 4 to 6 tech pace regardless.
You will not be able to, so you must steal.

When you play on std maps or even large ones with the normal amount of civs they will rip up the tech tree and leave you in the dust. You can recover, if you fight well. I played a game like that on contients and kill my neighbor. I was a whole age behind, but caught up. Unfortunetly I had no other AI to check the culture of the KAI and lost to culture as I was finally getting even with them.

So I feel it is important to kill of two civs for tech and because I need the land. It is not a given that a KAI will will show up and over run the others, but it is not uncommon.

The AI will take down small civs, once it get flight. The leathal bombardment will allow them to wreck the civ. You will see a bunch of carriers and know some fear.

This is where the extra land comes in as it lets me up my troops count to make the KAI not want to attack me. Once they have bombers, the easy invasion stuff is out the door.

30 bombers hitting you will not be a pleasant thing.

	03-06-2004 23:03									#321
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Last run was as Iroq, if I make a run at warmonger I would look at someone like China.

England is not bad, (Sea and Commerce?). I just don't see Seafare as all that great for Sid. I am not so crazy about the early connacts as I am not going to be doing my own research all that much.

Anyway they only give me a slight edge in locating them.

The only hassle with China is no alphabet. So I will have to see if any commerce/mil civs are about and who. France is not bad with commerce and ind for an all war civ.

I am going to be running a Moo2 test for a bit on another thread.

	04-06-2004 03:52									#322
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Last run was as Iroq, if I make a run at warmonger I would look at someone like China. England is not bad, (Sea and Commerce?). I just don't see Seafare as all that great for Sid. I am not so crazy about the early connacts as I am not going to be doing my own research all that much.

I would love to have some Chinese riders to open up my wars with but the lack of Alphabet probably means forgoing the GL and I’m just not sure if you can keep up in tech with trade alone. Probably have to try it one of these days.

I think I like Seafaring a bit more than you do because of the increased chances for trading Alphabet for all of the techs I need from the early ancient age. Especially if my island is a bit remote and that does happen quite a bit on 80% archipelago maps. I think that with England the synergy between seafaring and commerce will mean you’ll be rolling in dough and that will be the base of your power. I also really like starting with pottery because the lack of it tends to distort my actions in the early game. I’m less sure about the benefit of the Man-o-war as a UU but I’ve never tried it so we’ll see.

Good luck with your Moo3 demo and I’ll look forward to your AAR.

	04-06-2004 05:39									#323
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One of the things I would like to test is what impact, if any expansion does on Sid for huts. IOW will get any techs? Will I at least not get barbs? I know I won't get any settlers, but gold is not all bad and a warrior or two.

I know it will be a boost to the tech rate for the AI, though they probably won't get many huts on islands.

Yes with 1.22, I would say you can forget the GL if you do not start with Alphabet, that is the killer that limits your civs choices.
I have done it in 1.15, but have sometimes failed even with Alpha in 1.22.

So Russia for a shot with SGL, Abrabia for gov switching, Iroq for serious play.

France maybe for a another and then somone like China just to see what a military effort would be like. At least you would have Pottery and Mason for prebuilds, if any were needed.

	04-06-2004 07:05									#324
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I did a test of Expansionist on Sid and the trait was almost useless pre 1.15b. All you get is gold, maps, and warriors and that’s just not enough of an enticement IMO.

I chose the Vikings for my current game with game settings at large 80% archipelago, normal, temperate, 4 billion years, sedentary barbs, default rules, normal aggression, and 8 random opponents. I was thinking the Vikings would yield a good warrior’s game but, pretty much as always, I come away thinking that the Militaristic trait really needs a boost and my Berserks were not much of a factor at Sid level other than starting my golden age. Why should I load up a dozen caravels to attack a city with 30 muskets when I can just drop a settler? I suppose I can’t complain too much as it’s my first Viking game ever and I’m going to win it at Sid, but I still think other tribes and traits are more attractive. I tend to agree with you about China and some of the other tribes. Now that we’re beginning to make some real headway with Sid I think we need to come up with an alternative to the GL gambit which would allow us to widen our choices.

After my upcoming English game I will probably go back to something I was working on before the large 80% archipelago maps that I’ve been winning with. I find that a standard archipelago map at 60% often yields land masses that are snakelike in shape and nearly contiguous. This means you can get to many of your opponents earlier and in greater numbers with the drawback that the tech pace speeds up significantly. This type of map could well favor a military gambit and might be worth a try.

	04-06-2004 07:49									#325
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I played Vikes in a Sid game back aways and found that Berserks are great until they met rifles. The rifles will be in large cities too, so it will be painful.

The other problem is they cannot defend at all. It is nice to take town without landing.

I ran a quick test with the Russians and agree, no sense in having huts in the game at Sid. I am messing around with France right now in a sort of half baked attempt to build up a large force.

I have been disappointed with the Military trait no matter what level in C3C. It has not added enough promotons. But I really miss my riders, so I may have to play them soon.

Maybe I will play a demi with them on a cont or pangea to really unleash some havoc.

	04-06-2004 08:10									#326
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Yeah...I really like the Chinese too. Maybe I'll take a detour after my current game.

	04-06-2004 17:38									#327
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i just started my invasion last night.

took out their horsey city and planted my own city there. ive now my own supply of horses thank u verry much.

My GA has kicked off so im churning out the units like goddo atm.

the invasion force of 52 (SMs, Trech and knights) held up well. lost about 10 SMs and 8 Knights. but i took out loads of their units im not sure how many cause when they attacked i left the room . but their main force has surrounded my City and are gunna attack next turn. id estimate ~ 60-80 units (horse, swordsman, archer, mech inf and pike (mostly attacking units))

ive also gotten 2 leaders out of it so far, including 1 from a defensive combat . makes me feel a little more confident that i'll be able to quickly clear the island. i'll use these to get an knight and SM army. that will make it much easier for me to send out a force to clear out the rest of their island. i could create the armys before all those units attach me, but i'll take the risk using elite SMs to defend this attack. (or offensive defending as i see of it) i dont want them not attacking me becuase they is scared of my SM army. (WW being my reason, they'll just sit their on a feckin volcano otherwise)

since ive mentioned WW, well ive swithced to 40% lux and have traded for all 7 of the lux, hoping that will keep it down for the time being, once i take out their SOD i'll engage them on their terrotory and clear their land before settling with my own cities. this will reduce WW. either The GA or WLTKD has improved commerse so im still pulling in 360 gpt.

ive finished the Smiths GW, and guess wot, it saved me 60gpt !! i was spot on

only 1 tech to go to get to industrial. im much less worried about the russians now. i overstated their railroad network earlier, even better, the parts that are RR are not in their CORE, also they are at war with nearly everyone, but their effectiveness is very poor on these inter island invasions. they are the largest AI, but they have not taken any new teritory in a good few turns. also no city is bigger than 12. not sure how important sanitation is to AI, but at least i know they aint a full Age ahead of me.

so as i see it they cant really roll over any civ untill they get bombers as u say. that gives me a good few turns to take out a civ or 2 prior to having to confront them.

also i didnt manage to build the GL. when i finally got littiture (after the AI, but before GL was built) my plans were scuppered cause i had not gotten construction! but imo stealing is a perfectly adaquate means of reaseach at sid. also am thinking i can sabotage any attempts by the AI to build the space craft.

diplomatic victory is out (ive that option turned off). total culture victory is unlikely cause there are 3 AIS with really big cultures. the one city culture limit is more tricky. my only option is a ROP followed by dastedly attack on said city.
dunno how i'll win the game. depends how indrustrail age goes for meh.

	04-06-2004 17:50									#328
	Increase the size of your Attachments

not thinking about playing any more sid games atm.

this damn game of SId is just eating up my attention. poor ould counterstrike not even getting a look in

oh forgot, vxma1, the point i was making about meh tinking more civs is good has nothing to do with the number of beakers required to reaserch.

with so many civs still around, the AIs are focusing on war, and not reaserch. i feel this is valid cause im judging tech lead by the cost it cost meh to steal (more techs ahead then the more uve to pay, but ive no statistical data to back it up im fairly sure this is correct.)
the cost is fairly static in relation to meh. in fact its gone down form its peak. also hittites have over taken russia as most expaensive to steal from. so thats the basisis for my assumption that all the Warring is slowing down AI reaserch.

	04-06-2004 20:43									#329
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hey Mr. Justice;

Thanks for the update. Invasions at Sid are kind of interesting aren’t they? I'll be looking to see if you are able to stave off WW with luxuries and the slider. I'd like to add that to my bag of tricks if you can pull it off. It’s also interesting that you’ve gotten as far as you have without the Great Library. I've been wondering if it was possible to succeed at Sid without it. Not to mention no iron, no horses, no luxuries…Good work!

So, it seems your plan is to buy off WW, slow down tech acquisition generally, island hop to the major powers, chew them up, sabotage spaceship production, and win by domination or spaceship. I like it. I hope it works. Keep us posted.

	04-06-2004 21:22									#330
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The AI is not afraid to attack armies in a city, only out in the open.
I would make armies and let them do the bulk of the defending, because it will save some troops.

I would not worry about using elites as they are easy to come by at Sid. With 80 or units to kill, getting elites and leaders is not hard to do.

Killing off 1 or 2 civs is not going to make much difference in the AI's being at war. They will be at war anyway as there is no free land and that is the only way to expand.

Chances are they will not be at war with the civs I want to eliminate as those are close to me. I just want two things 1-slow down research 2- more land.