26-10-2004 04:25									#121
	Put an end to popups!

Latest in from MREX, MWIA also had a chat with him and will be posting the chat log when he gets home from work:

quote: Greetings from the nation of Elucida. As a curteousy, we thought we would tell you of our future plans for regarding expansion towards you. We plan to build a city N-N-NW of Shaharazade within the next couple turns. Best wishes from your friends to the East. -- Micaelis Rex

	26-10-2004 04:26									#122
	Inflate your Upload Space

Just sent to PAL, its seems that FortyJ got Togas's letter and decided to hold up the game because of it. Not sure why but he did so Im filling in PAL:

quote: PAL brethren RE: The game hold up. Its because of us, Togas sent this email to FortyJ trying to get his interpretation of the rules: "FortyJ, We're having a difficult time with the implimentation of the map trading rules. Here's our problem: We're trying to negotiate a border with another civ, we've each scouted out the entire area in question and the majority of each other's territory, but we seem unable to communicate over the map and how to fairly split things up because we can't trade maps, can't send maps to each other, can't take a screenshot and draw lines on it, etc. Border negotiations are extremely frustrating. We do believe that we can describe the land and where we're trying to split things, but we cannot give out coordinates and since we don't agree on the where to split, we seem to have a hard time communicating why we feel our line is fair or their line is fair due to our concerns about breaking the rules regarding map exchanges. Please consider this issue in light of the maptrading rules and see if some sort of compromise can be worked out. Thanks. --Togas of Apolyton" Togas just sent this out today, hence the hold up. Im not exactly convinced we needed a hold up for this but thats what he did, so I guess we wait. con of APO

edit - moved the end quote to the correct location -GK

	27-10-2004 03:31									#123
	Put an end to popups!

Regarding the hold-up in the game:

quote: Hello (is that you FortyJ?), I just wanted to check in and ask what the holdup of the save was about. Is it stemming from us asking for clarification of one of the UN rules? We asked whether the rule allowed us to compare notes on tile counts with other civs in order to resolve border disputes. I must stress that we would not be swapping pictures or screenshots or coordinates, except in the case that both teams concerned totally knew the area(s) involved - this is a side issue anyway. If this is the reason for the hold up please let us know. Also, is there really a need for a pause to play? Whatever your decision on this, we are happy to play on without using such information until a decision IS made, and this could be for the best seeing as the other game is somewhat advanced on us, unless you thought the game could not continue without a decision being made. Please respond as soon as you can, MrWhereItsAt Consul of Apolyton.

	27-10-2004 14:45									#124
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To CDG belatedly responding to their last email:

quote: Micaelis Rex, Thanks for the head's up (about your settler). I'm afraid, though, that we have a little bad news - an Apolytonian settler will build a new city in that exact spot next turn (assuming this delay doesn't last long). We apologize for the inconvenience. Stay in touch, MrWhereItsAt Consul of Apolyton

	28-10-2004 07:30									#125
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

From PAL

quote: Esteemed colleague in the MoI of Apolyton and Citizens of Apolyton, It is good that we are ironing out communications, worries, problems, and seeking to coordinate our strengths better. Let me present an area that I believe needs consideration from our two Ministries of Interior. From a MoI perspective, PAL is troubled about the scientific and economic health of Apolyton. My historians indicate that Apolyton’s last research (Mathematics) occurred no later than 1350BC, since PAL received it in 1325BC. We now live in the enlightened year of 850BC, which means that 20 turns (500 years) have passed since Apolyton's last discovery. PAL's foreign relations and intelligence agents offer information that explains this fact as a result of that under the last 20 turns of despotism Apolyton has been saving large sums of money to use for swordsman upgrades which are now complete and will indeed be useful. At Apolyton and PAL's last meeting, you confirmed to me that a lone dedicated scientist has at least wisely been advancing the research of Apolyton i n these five centuries of diverting funds to military purposes. PAL has for some time planned to use this same research tactic during the era of anarchy, and encourages Apolyton to continue in this wise practice - if appropriate after this letter - during anarchy as well. While we realize that the funds diverted from science have upgraded several swordsmen, PAL also recognizes that this has come at the cost of allied research. One of the advantages that this alliance absolutely must have to succeed against GWT and BAT is a very strong lead in technology. Technology is an advantage that PAL vigorously desires to protect from slipping away, being eroded, or even not being leveraged as fully as possible. Speedy destruction of CDG will help reduce the threat that they would pass our continent's technologies to the other continent. As a second measure, we desire that our nations both be united in dedication to the most rapid research efforts possible. PAL and I are concerned that in spite of the last 20 turns researching currency (base 16), Apolyton is looking at an additional 20 or more turns to research currency, which would make 40+ turns in all. Some citizens of PAL have been skeptic that Apolyton might be trying to deceive or not fully disclose true research information about how long currency would truly take. I and others have made successful personal efforts to correct this misperception. PAL now realizes that although under despotism Apolyton was able to generate a large economic surplus, Republic will be a very different situation. Previously we have noted Apolyton's laments about unit support. Assuming 7 cities with an 8th on the way to establish the current situation, I have pointed out that a corresponding thirty something units would incur significant support costs under republic, where cities will only support 8 units, leaving 45-60 gold per turn in support costs to be met by Apolyton's size. I believe that PAL now realizes that although under despotism Apolyton consciously chose to divert funds from science, under the first good while of republic Apolyton may have little option but to divert significant funds from science to unit support. Being aware of this possible situation, it is difficult not to beleive that the lion share of the needed research for our alliance's success will be shouldered by PAL for some time. I am hoping that together we can figure out ways to overcome the republic economic crisis that Apolyton will soon be facing. Some at PAL have suggested that Apolyton wait to enter republic, but I do understand the importance of republic for a golden age. Other suggestions that even make me cringe as a MoI have even been suggested, which I will not mention. We are curious about what methods Apolyton is looking at to address the situation. Others have suggested that it may be more prudent for PAL (rather than Apolyton) to research Currency after Construction, a case which I will present in detail. Once in GA, PAL and Apolyton will both have sufficient production to build marketplaces. Our needs for marketplaces will be different in nature. PAL would need marketplaces primarily to multiply luxury resources in a way to keep citizens content. Apolyton would need marketplaces as more of a solution to economic strain. The point is that despite the differing reasons, both PAL and APO would benefit from obtaining technology for marketplaces sooner than Apolyton appears to be able to research it. Naturally, we would lose the progress of Apolyton's current research, but the dual benefits gained might still be worth more than the research lost. Let me illustrate this with a timeline that we have estimated for PAL's own research capability. Turn 93: Pal emerges from anarchy into REPUBLIC Turn 96: Pal scientists discover CONSTRUCTION Turn 96: Pal builds the PYRAMIDS triggering GOLDEN AGE and HYPERGROWTH Turn 100 Pal scientists discover CURRENCY Turn 104 Pal scientists discover LITERATURE These are conservative estimates based on a low PAL casualty rate. In other words, this is what we would be looking at even with high unit support and other constraints. Most specifically, note that Currency and Literature are 4-turn techs for us, and we can have currency finished by turn 100 as compared to turn 108+ for Apolyton. Note that if we wait for Apolyton to research currency at the 20 turn rate (turn 108?), we can expect at least 8 dead turns or more starting in turn 100 because PAL would have nothing left to research. This is a highly undesirable situation, and is not conducive to the alliance being a technology leader. We are going to want to get into medeival era technology as quickly as possible. Some might claim that PAL could simply save the money and use it as a reserve to drain from later when luxury costs and maintenance costs become high. I believe that would be a mistake. Firstly, PAL’s luxury rate costs will be extremely minimal if at all existent for a long time once our marketplaces are up, so we are looking mainly at maintenance rates. But second and more importantly, such an approach is a catch up approach. It may take many turns to drain the treasury of such an approach to a point where it finally breaks even. Such an approach may put the breakeven far enough out that GWT and BAT can keep up reasonably with us well into the future. A more rapid approach from eliminating the bottleneck promises to create a lead that GWT and BAT have no hope of remotely keeping pace with. Consider further that the maximum research rate under GA and non-GA are very different. Some techs that are 4 turns under GA may be 6 turns under non-GA. Thus even if money were not a fac tor due to large treasury, the maximum possible research rate when GA expires would also work against PAL’s efforts to catch up, potentially putting us in a position where PAL is unable to drain treasury to bolster science because 100% may not be needed to research a tech in 4 turns. At any rate, I seriously urge Apolyton to consider abandoning its currency research, allowing PAL to remove the research bottleneck, while Apolyton agressively seeks for means to enable themselves as a stronger economic/scientific contributor. PAL eagerly awaits Apolyton's rapid response to this proposal and/or any other future economic/scientific reform proposals that Apolyton may wish to delve into. For accuracy and surety in coordinating our research efforts can you confirm the absolute earliest possible turn that Apolyton could have Currency by? Also, could you provide the earliest possible turn that Apolyton could have Literature done by if Apolyton switched immediately to Literature? I hope that the estimates I have provided will be useful. Let's see what we can coordinate to eliminate technology bottlenecks and also to make Apolyton's research and economic abilities stronger. -Heroic MoI for PAL

	28-10-2004 07:31									#126
	Got spare money?

My respnse

quote: As of this turn, we have 42 (+1 settler) units, primarily Hoplites, swordsmen & workers. We also have a significant warrior reserve that may be either upgraded or disbanded depending on how the war goes. We have all of 18 gold in the bank after doing all the upgrading. Aargh. We have 7 (soon 8) cities, offering 8 units support. The CDG cities (lets say we capture 5) will provide another 5 support, and after anarchy, we will be settler producing like mad in all our cities that have the growth to support a settler. Yep, we need them that bad. So, on average, let us say we have 13 units supported for the next 20 turns. That leaves us a unit support cost of 58 gpt. We were making 29 gpt (not including unit support) just prior to entering anarchy. With republic, we will be making (an estimated) 56 gpt. We will therefore be running a deficit until new cities/settlers are produced. Unless, of course, we enter a golden age which we hope to trigger in the early stages of the war. With a GA, we (I) estimate we will be making close to 80 gpt. We have 29 turns to go (currently) with Currency. Assuming GA conditions (it will go down to 25 at the start of the war), and max into research, we are looking at 20 turns +/- from now (turn 108). Lit, if we switched now, would be around turn 117. All around a bad idea. If you were going to switch to a more gold intensive stance, how much could you send our way to supplement our research? I know, I don’t like the idea myself, but think about this, we already have over half of the tech researched at the start of the war (turn 93 iirc). If you could finance us for a couple of turns, we crank up science to almost full, and complete it the same time you finish lit. Remember the free tech we gain also when going into the next age. That is a nice little bonus. In our GA, we plan on going with settlers, lots of settlers, followed up by marketplaces, libraries and courthouses. We have 8 workers (plus any CDG slaves we can capture) so we will be trying to spend most of the time road building to new city sites and not irrigating or mining. I personally always try for 2 workers per city when not being industrious…. Looking at the numbers, I must say that unless you can support our research to make it worth wild (go for 6-7 turns on lit, and we max out currency to try and gain another 1-2 turns faster than your 8) then your plan seams to be best until we can get a couple of markets and libraries in place. You run the numbers on your end (I have no idea how big your military is, or your settler production) We were planning on a 12-15 turn science rate (no GA) so that we were making some gold to rush some of our building construction. I agree however that keeping a scientific lead over the other continent is of paramount importance. Because of that, and the science rate we are keeping, we are seriously debating abandoning SoZ and going for the Great Library (if for no other reason to keep it out of their hands). Btw, with your happiness concerns, have you considered researching monarchy? I will present your letter and my quick response to my team for further analysis. Thanks and good ideas. --GK MoI for Poly

	29-10-2004 09:13									#127
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Email from PAL:

quote: Gentlemen- we have very strong reason to believe one team on this continent (either you or CDG) has just made contact across the continent. Obviously, we're almost certain it was CDG, but we thought we'd check just to make sure it wasn't you and you forgot to mention it. If in fact CDG has made cross-continental contact, it is highly likely that PAL will invade tonight to try and do maximum damage before they can exchange for masonry, etc. I will be on AIM (Ptaguildmaster), YIM (FriedrichPsitalon) and in your MIRC chat room for the next 2 hours. Please contact me as soon as possible.

Chat with PAL:

quote: :Friedrich: my entire team is stuffed into our chat room, so I'll just relay :conmcb25_PBEMing: OK :Friedrich: Okay, the short version: :Friedrich: We know that either you or CDG just got contact across the waves. :Friedrich: We're guessing it's CDG, but we figured we ought to triplecheck first. :conmcb25_PBEMing: It aint us :Friedrich: I think it is highly likely that we will be invading tonight then. :Friedrich: We can get to Minnesota before they get walls up, which is an important milestone. :Friedrich: that's assuming they didn't start a trade last turn on contact :Friedrich: which is a safe bet :conmcb25_PBEMing: Whats up? How do you know someone made it across, whatas up :conmcb25_PBEMing: g :conmcb25_PBEMing: ????? :Friedrich: sec :Friedrich: okay :Friedrich: last turn, the Foreign Advisor looked like it always did :Friedrich: normal, you on left, CDG on right :Friedrich: as of THIS TURN, you are BOTH on the left - meaning that someone else has been added to the matrix :Friedrich: Therefore we know that either it was you or them - and since it's not you.... :conmcb25_PBEMing: Ah **** :conmcb25_PBEMing: *Now con wonders where they crossed* :Friedrich: Are you authorized to tell us how long your anarchy is for? We're making immediate preparations here :Friedrich: We're pretty sure it as off our east coast :conmcb25_PBEMing: I believe its four turns. :Friedrich: there was a curragh that "never came home" in that region :conmcb25_PBEMing: Wait one and Ill check the anarchy time :conmcb25_PBEMing: Pretty sure its four turns :Friedrich: k :conmcb25_PBEMing: Four turns from last turn_confirmed :conmcb25_PBEMing: I have no consuls handy so do what you think is necessary and I will relay what your plans are. :conmcb25_PBEMing: We will have to adjust :Friedrich: alright :conmcb25_PBEMing: Obviously waiting till coming out of anarchy would have helped but this is kind of a crisis :conmcb25_PBEMing: And the anarchy thing goes for both of us of course :conmcb25_PBEMing: hey wait a minute :conmcb25_PBEMing: I thought the game was on hold? :conmcb25_PBEMing: Did FortyJ say something today? :Friedrich: yes :conmcb25_PBEMing: Im going to CDG to look :Friedrich: Alright, take this message to your leaders :Friedrich: The nations of PAL and CDG are now at war. :Friedrich: We will send battle reports when they are available. :conmcb25_PBEMing: Roger :conmcb25_PBEMing: Wanna bet Lucky stirred up some **** in game 2??? :Friedrich: bitter over his death, I'm sure :conmcb25_PBEMing: ******* :conmcb25_PBEMing: OK if you wanna play go ahead :conmcb25_PBEMing: Ill be here for a while or just send us an email :conmcb25_PBEMing: AND WE NEED A GROUP FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Friedrich: moving now. :Friedrich: yeah, yeah, I know :Friedrich: this weekend :conmcb25_PBEMing: Promise? :Friedrich: probably :Friedrich: ::whistle:: :conmcb25_PBEMing: he he :conmcb25_PBEMing: Im taking a quick look at the posted pictures of the save and its my guess we are 3 to 4 turns from any kind of a major offensive. :Friedrich: k :conmcb25_PBEMing: Thats just an estimate * conmcb25_PBEMing is now known as conmcb25_PBEMing_BRB :Friedrich: The People's Army of the Ladder reports the capture of Sven's Fjord. :conmcb25_PBEMing_BRB: Roger that :conmcb25_PBEMing_BRB: What about No Name City? :Friedrich: passing it up until size 2 at least :conmcb25_PBEMing_BRB: I figured that would go first with the road? :conmcb25_PBEMing_BRB: ah OK :Friedrich: we're doing this for your colonization, not blood. :Friedrich: wasteful war is not the PAL way. :conmcb25_PBEMing_BRB: Your such a great guy * conmcb25_PBEMing_BRB is now known as conmcb25_LookingForLeadership :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: You still there? :Friedrich: yeah :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: OK :Friedrich: we took the town and 2 workers, will update tomorrow :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: update via email? :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: Are you sending the save tonight? :Friedrich: yes :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: OK :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: Do we need to talk anymore? :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: I need to post this and get the word out * conmcb25_LookingForLeadership laughs because CDG never even knew they had horses, snicker :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: Well lets hope they dont build a galley and go sailing with a settler and a spearman............ :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: That would be BAD :Friedrich: yeah, that would kinda sick :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: OK do we need to talk anymore :Friedrich: nope -sorry, on phone and in 3 chats :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: This old body is still trying to recover from Jet Lag :Friedrich: hehe :Friedrich: understandable :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: OK talk to ya soon :conmcb25_LookingForLeadership: Ill look for you report tomorrow and post it :Friedrich: save may come tomorrow morning * Friedrich has left #c3c_isdg_embassy

	29-10-2004 17:40									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

PAL's missive to CDG (F-P's word not mine )

quote: To the leaders of the Elucidian nation: As of this date, 825 BC, the People’s Army of the Ladder have moved an army of horsemen into your territory. This is, by definition, a declaration of war upon your nation. While PAL is at heart a peace-loving community, your nation is now directly at odds with the best interests of this nation, and this continent. Your nation’s policies of abuse and neglect of your people are unacceptable to us. The first of many sins committed by your government: the nature of your rulership. Our Republican, people-driven and people-led society is offended by the brutal despotism of your rule. We believe in an enlightened government, and an enlightened people (who wear tutus). “Rule by fear” is a government which we cannot in good conscience tolerate. Your people are also deprived of the most vital necessities of life – you lack, and show no interest in, proper silk-woven tutus nor do you show proper appreciation for silk trimmings. Since all respectable people (as the nation of PAL evidences) wear tutus, your barbaric customs must be corrected. Apolyton has negotiated to properly care of its citizens, but we cannot allow the injustice of silk-free, furry underwear to continue. The people of Elucidia deserve better than to wear undergarments which attract insect life, but sadly, the Government of Elucidia seems determined to focus its attention elsewhere. Instead, the government of Elucidia seems to have been spending its time preparing for war. Recently, we have determined that your nation has been seeking to obtain the materials for and create Horses of Mass Destruction (HoMD) and further, would wish to use them on civilian targets within our empire. Further, you would then seek to destabilize this region in a war with Apolyton, which we also cannot allow. Therefore, it is with a heavy heart that we are forced to occupy your lands, seek out your HoMD, and dismantle them. We will of course insure that a proper government has been put into place after your removal, and distribute – not your foul Horses of Mass Destruction – but properly sized and fitted pink tutus for all citizens. Ultimately, the decision is yours as to how this transfer of power is to take place. It is simple and clear fact that such a transition WILL occur; your nation cannot hope to stand against our might – the choice left to you is only “how.” Peacefully; you may surrender your cities to us and join our nation – or by war; we can and will relentlessly shatter the body and soul of every person who stands against the righteous and fair liberation of your oppressed, ill-clad empire. It has been a pleasure having your nation as a neighbor, and we compliment you on all you have accomplished. We do apologize for tensions between our nations in times past, but we feel certain that our standing and feelings toward your nation are now quite clear. May whatever gods you believe in have mercy on your wretched souls, and have a nice day. Signed, The People of the Army of the Ladder P.S. – Good game!

	30-10-2004 05:17									#129
	Suffering from ads?

Latest from MREX sent about 8 hours ago:

quote: This past turn, the peaceful nation of Elucida was brutally invaded by the barbaric Ladderites. This unjust act of genocide will forever be on their consciences, and we will punish their troop of ponies for ever entering Elucidian territory. Some of our Senators feel that the treachery goes far deeper than what has been revealed at this time. We would like to know precisely where Apolyton stands concerning this conflict. We find it inconceivable that the nation of Apolyton would ever gang up on the smallest nation in the lands, but nonetheless, we would like your word that you stand behind us in our struggle for freedom. -- Micaelis Rex

	30-10-2004 05:41									#130
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just sent to PAL: Hopefully this will shut up the conspiracy nuts over at PAL for a while

quote: To our Esteemed Allies at PAL We read with interest your letter to CDG with much amusement. However the below paragraph has disturbed some of Apolytons citizens, and we wonder why PAL did not share this part of the plan with us?l "Ultimately, the decision is yours as to how this transfer of power is to take place. It is simple and clear fact that such a transition WILL occur; your nation cannot hope to stand against our might – the choice left to you is only “how.” Peacefully; you may surrender your cities to us and join our nation – or by war; we can and will relentlessly shatter the body and soul of every person who stands against the righteous and fair liberation of your oppressed, ill-clad empire." Why didn't you tell us you planned on asking them to surrender?....................................................... Gotcha! Now here is an example of something that we did not specifically discuss, however on the surface this could be percieved as you were trying to hide something from us. But lets stop and think about it for a minute. This is a standard practice in these kind of games so whats the big deal right? Im saying this personnally from con to the PAL team because Im just trying to illustrate that sometimes the perception is more important than the actual meaning. And I really think sometimes your perception that we are trying to keep things from you is justified but just remember its just a perception not necessarily reality. We really aren't trying to keep things from your team. We just simply have not communicated well. Which leads me again to suggest and strongly endorse a MUTUAL DIPLOMACY FORUM somewhere. I really think that will go a long way to improving communciations between the teams (not just myself and F-P), ESPECIALLY now that there is war. Just so you know we had discussed the surrender option to CDG as well in the forums and we are going to try as well. We might have a better chance since there is a long standing connection between CDG and Apoly that goes back even before the first ISDG. But probably like the PAL opinion ours is that they will not accept. On the war front we are going to jump in as soon as we can and within 3 turns. I said within it maybe sooner, we are going to be careful about the GA trigger and need to move the second SoD up before it can attack. We should be hammering out those details shortly in chat before we play the turn. Thats about all, Im just doing my part to keep up the communication flow......... con

	30-10-2004 07:33									#131
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

After doing a quick analysis, even if we received the 90 gold per turn, we would only have a research of around 9-12 turns for currency. Unfortunately, this appears to be the best course of action at this time until we can build up some more cities, and add some markets and less unit support (via war damage and disbanding, as necessary).

I will present my findings to our team (will not abandon research just yet, just in case my estimates are not accurate once we exit anarchy --- damn, gotta update our sim). If we do go this route, we will go full out on gold and gift you a good percentage.

Go ahead and send us all your techs so we are on a par. We switched some builds after going into anarchy and popped out the currachs we can afford. Thanks for waiting, but now is not the time anymore.
--GK

quote: russell.sperry@us.army.mil wrote: Fellow Minister of the Interior, Exiting Anarchy on turn 93, PAL will have approximately 90 gold in accumulated treasury due to our use of taxmen where appropriate during anarchy to keep happiness where entertainers are not needed. We will then have the choice of researching Construction in either 2 or 3 turns, depending on if we drain the treasury at about 24 gold for 2 turns or whether we leave the treasury alone. I would guess 3 turns, which means on turn 96 PAL discovers Construction and sets out for Literature. The following breakdown of the tradeoff schedule would apply. Doing Literature leaves +55 gold per turn at 4 turns +73 gold per turn at 5 turns +93 gold per turn at 7 turns But let's just keep this simple for now. If PAL could provide APO's needed funding starting on turn 93, what is the fastest that APO could obtain Currency? Or alternatively, if PAL could provide APO's needed funding starting on turn 93, what is the fastest that APO could obtain Literature? Eagerly awaiting your response, -Heroic MoI for PAL

	30-10-2004 11:07									#132
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Sent to CDG: Note this bounced, as their email is full I PMed it to LouisXVII or whatever, who posts at the UN for them, but it may need to be resent sometime.

quote: Dear Micaelis Rex and our friends at Elucida: I regret to inform you that on behalf of our other friends, the nation of PAL, we are joining them in the attack. As you can see, we have approximately 20 units including a mixture of hoplites, swordsmen, archers and horsemen about to or already having entered territory that is occupied by you and adjoin it to our own. With the significant forces poised against you, we wish you will see the wisdom of transferring your cities, gold and workers to us. Your settler(s) will be directed to locations to found new cities that will be transferred to us the turn they are founded. We have enjoyed playing with you, but of course the rules of this game are simple: 3 teams go on, 2 do not. Unfortunately, your team has had poor luck; in that you are between two other teams, have a mediocre starting location, and civ traits that are not well suited to early expansion, protection and growth. Regardless of whether or not you choose to make this transition simple or complicated, we wish to invite the members of your team to join up with Poly once the formalities of your annexation are complete and as soon as reasonable. We thank you for your contribution to this game, as we have enjoyed our interactions with you. We hope you will join with us and together we can enjoy further cooperation towards reaching the next stage. Apolyton Team

	30-10-2004 11:08									#133
	Get a bigger avatar today!

...and on to PAL

quote: Greetings from your friendly neighbours and allies at Apolyton. As of this turn, 825BC, we see that PAL has indeed commenced its attack on CDG. This took us a little unprepared, as some of our troops will take another couple of turns to reach the border, but we have responded to a letter sent by CDG asking for clarification on our position on this with a letter of our own. Although when I sent this letter, it bounced (their inbox is full ) I have PMed it to them. Here is the letter in full: --------------------------------- Dear Micaelis Rex and our friends at Elucida: I regret to inform you that on behalf of our other friends, the nation of PAL, we are joining them in the attack. As you can see, we have approximately 20 units including a mixture of hoplites, swordsmen, archers and horsemen about to or already having entered territory that is occupied by you and adjoin it to our own. With the significant forces poised against you, we wish you will see the wisdom of transferring your cities, gold and workers to us. Your settler(s) will be directed to locations to found new cities that will be transferred to us the turn they are founded. We have enjoyed playing with you, but of course the rules of this game are simple: 3 teams go on, 2 do not. Unfortunately, your team has had poor luck; in that you are between two other teams, have a mediocre starting location, and civ traits that are not well suited to early expansion, protection and growth. Regardless of whether or not you choose to make this transition simple or complicated, we wish to invite the members of your team to join up with Poly once the formalities of your annexation are complete and as soon as reasonable. We thank you for your contribution to this game, as we have enjoyed our interactions with you. We hope you will join with us and together we can enjoy further cooperation towards reaching the next stage. Apolyton Team --------------------------------- If CDG caves in, which we believe they will *not*, then we will naturally have a far easier task of this, and will be able to resume our efforts towards eliminating another team all the sooner. We hope you'll agree this would be the best possible circumstance for both of us - taking the land and eliminating a team without the messy war, and then splitting more spoils than we otherwise would have been able to get. This idea has only taken shape very recently, which is why we have not been able to discuss this with you earlier, and I hope you do not have any concerns about this - we certainly feel this outcome would advantage us both. In the more likely alternative of CDG defying our combined might, we have a stack of units available to attack Shaharazade next turn, which also serves to show them we mean business. The remainder of the troops will arrive on CDG's borders within 3 turns, and we are now discussing where best to direct these. Suggestions from PAL are welcomed and would be strongly considered. We are three turns from emerging from Anarchy, and have in the meantime created a number of taxmen - scientists do not significantly help us towards Currency, it seems. We are all hoping we can find a way to keep tech progression between us to a maximum so that PAL does not need to waste any turns. Again, we are open to suggestions. We are prepared to begin addressing PAL's concerns about a perceived imbalance in contributions to the alliance, but that might be overburdening this already weighty tome of an email too much. Expect another email about this soon. For the moment please keep in mind the free tech we get upon advancement to the Medieval Age could be worth as much as Construction and Currency put together. Needless to say I hope that the next dozen turns will see us smooth over differences and get on with the serious task of preparing to waste the other continent. See you at the gates to Zarigueya! MrWhereItsAt Consul of Apolyton

	31-10-2004 08:43									#134
	Put an end to popups!

Just received from PAL, about the latest game stoppage.

quote: http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/site/...topic.php?t=178 Just wanted to keep you advised. I'm working *right now* on getting our mutual forum set up.

	31-10-2004 08:46									#135
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Reply to FP, just an acknowledgement we are paying attention.

quote: Thanks for the notice, FP. Here's hoping that the Admin reaches a speedy resolution to this so we can get on with it, eh? MrWhereItsAt

	31-10-2004 16:38									#136
	Increase Your PM Length

It seems that the possible violations keep mounting from CDG:

quote: Gentlemen: It seems that CDG has a bit of a grudge against you (or did they make the same offer to you?) and are willing to violate rules to do so. For completeness's sake I have attached both of my messages to FortyJ here. I think you will find the second one particularly troubling both for who it targets, and the even more clear attempt to violate game rules.... The following is an exact transcript of all information sent to FortyJ in private messages: ************* From: FriedrichPsitalon To: FortyJ Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:24 pm Subject: Clear Violation of Game Rules Sir: Please be advised this is an official request for administrative action about the posts made by team Elucidia in CISDG game 1. Thread title: "An Announcement to the World." They are clearly and deliberately giving information out to teams they do not have contact with (at least one other Civ, as well as the civs of game 2), with the direct intent of sullying the reputation of teams that are beating them completely and fairly within the game rules. I believe this is a violation of rule 1.7, and as such carries a first time offense of a 1-5 turn suspension. I have also requested that GWT freeze the save in the turnthread, as CDG is next to play and I feel that turn, at the very least, should be stripped of them. I am eager to hear your feelings on this matter. _________________ President Term 1, People's Army of the Ladder Conquests Beta Test Champion ************* From: FriedrichPsitalon To: FortyJ Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:03 am Subject: *Another* rules violation has now occurred by Elucidia. Sir: I regret to inform you that Elucidia has now violated another rule. Please read the following chat log between Micaelis Rex and the Minister of Intelligence yesterday: *********************** Welcome 19:17 maxfin has joined the chat. 19:17 [maxfin] damn opera 19:17 [Micaelis_Rex] Heh 19:17 [maxfin] so you were saying that you would surrender your cities if we agree to something? 19:17 [Micaelis_Rex] This conversation cannot get out of your team, agreed? 19:17 [maxfin] ok 19:18 [Micaelis_Rex] Yes, that is what we are saying. This is not an official offer by any means, but I wanted to see what you thought. 19:18 [Micaelis_Rex] We would gift you all our cities, though not all at once. Basically, we would gift them in a manner that Apolyton didn't get any of them. You would have to agree to two things. 19:19 [Micaelis_Rex] First, not to attack us yourselves 19:19 [maxfin] phone 19:19 [maxfin] couple mins 19:20 [Micaelis_Rex] ok 19:21 [maxfin] brb 19:22 [Micaelis_Rex] Second, you would have to agree to wipe out Apolyton so that they are not able to advance to the next game. That shouldn't be too hard for you to do. You might even be able to do it now as their army is in our lands and your army is doing nothing. 19:22 pesoloco has joined the chat. 19:22 pesoloco has joined subroom: IDG-Chat 19:23 pesoloco has joined subroom: General 19:23 [pesoloco] Greetings. I am pesoloco of Elucidia 19:25 [Micaelis_Rex] Hey peso 19:26 [maxfin] hmm 19:27 [maxfin] so you would demand those 2 things 19:27 [maxfin] and would offer us all your cities 19:27 [Micaelis_Rex] well, it is not an official offer. my team has to agree to it... 19:27 [maxfin] I will forward this information but can't say anything more 19:28 [Micaelis_Rex] out of curiousity, why us? we could have helped you win? 19:28 [Micaelis_Rex] poly was your biggest threat 19:28 [maxfin] it's clear, 3 will get into next round, needed to get out of other civs 19:29 [maxfin] how can I copypaste this one? 19:29 [Micaelis_Rex] the two papers button ****************************** Comparing this to current UN rule 1.8: ******************** 1.8 Enjoining Teams Description: No team or individual is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade multiple cities with the intent of joining teams to destroy another team and keep both teams alive to survive to the end. If a team decides to drop out however, its players are allowed to change teams as permitted under Section 0.3. Definition: A team trading one or more cities to another team for the purpose of either granting that team an advantage (premature contact with another civ, map information, etc.), or denying an aggressor the right of conquest. ****************** it would again seem VERY clear that Team Elucidia has violated a rule. More troubling in this case is that they specifically requested the conversation be kept private (private from whom? Obviously not from Apolyton, so we have to assume they wanted to keep it private from the administrators of the game?) So it appears that not only did they KNOW they were violating a rule, they were seeking our collusion in this matter in order to avoid being punished for it. It is quite clear, however, that the entire reason they were going to gift their cities to us is to deny Apolyton the right of conquest. On a personal note... When the UN was formed and the rules of this game were being debated, PAL's position was (and still remains) "We will play by whatever rules the others decide, because we MP-folk understand that different people have very different ideas of 'right' and 'fair' but we are used to playing under many variant rules, and so we will be happy to adjust." The one thing the MP community values above all else is a sense of honesty, and of honor - because of the ease of cheating in MP, we take these things very seriously. We're not trying to be rules lawyers here, but in both cases, we think the violations aren't even "hard calls" or "judgement cases." We're just trying to play the game fairly by the rules that were set down, and we're rather alarmed at how quickly one team is casting aside these rules (twice in the same day?!) when things start to go badly. I would like to personally apologize that you have to go through this headache, but I greatly appreciate the job you do - I was the 'cheating enforcement administrator' for the MP Ladder for 2 years - and thank you in advance. _________________ President Term 1, People's Army of the Ladder Conquests Beta Test Champion

	31-10-2004 16:44									#137
	Tired of ads?

Short and quick reply to PAL:

quote: To our allies at PAL: This is very disturbing. Please keep us informed on what FortyJ says. If nothing else I believe both of our teams have chosen our allies wisely My personnal opinion of the CDG team has hit a new low And no as far as I know they did not make the same offer to us. It sure would be nice to discuss this in a mutual forum con

	31-10-2004 21:24									#138
	WE HAVE A MUTUAL FORUM!!!!!! Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Latest from F-P:

Right now only ministers shall be able to post, the rest with having veiwing rights only:

quote: Okay guys, here's the scoop: http://cookieexchange.proboards36.com/index.cgi Will get you to our cooperative boards. The password to each sub-forum is b@n@n@ (ignore the damn hyperlink, doesn't work anyhow) I have to keep each forum passworded so that non-registered folks can't see "the last 10 posts." Anyone can register, but without the password you can't really see anything. Once you do have the password, you can VIEW any forum, but you cannot post anywhere. I believe our original agreement was to allow all officials posting rights and viewable access for everyone else? I will update periodically throughout the day the names of any registered person that has previously been cleared by one of you, via email here to give them Mod rights (posting rights) on the forums. I can't pre-approve anyone though; they have to have an account first. (Before you worry, I've never gotten any email as a result of my Proboards account.) I will be doing the same thing for our ministers and officials as well. Happy posting!...er...viewing! until I get back up anyhow.

	28-11-2004 11:43									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

An email from MRex:

quote: To the Apolotonians: Over the past several decades, our two peoples have been in an active state of war. During this time, your armies have been very successful. In fact, you have succeeded in driving our people from this land. You are able to have access to our land, including our former fur luxuries. Congratulations. There is little reason to continue this war. We do not desire to make war against you, and there is no chance of any further "war actions" between our two nations. We therefore humbly ask for a peace treaty between the great Apolotonian Empire and our small Elucidian kingdom. Sincerely, President of Elucida Micaelis Rex

	07-12-2004 13:38									#140
	Inflate your Upload Space

forgot to save a copy, but i sent email to Alan (who sent us 670 save) telling him we sent them wines, 100g, and asking him for an ETA on currency.

--Togas

	15-12-2004 09:40									#141
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Chat with Elucidus this evening, about a potential rules violation I assume CDG accused us of:

quote: Elucidus4: :-) sorry Elucidus4: I was at work, don't have aol there conmcb25: No problem conmcb25: Just doing some pbems conmcb25: What is the issue? Elucidus4: okay, well as I am sure you saw, we have a problem Elucidus4: and it is related to the peace treaty you signed with cdg a couple of turns ago conmcb25: OK Elucidus4: did you intend to keep the peace traty? conmcb25: Hmmmm Elucidus4: btw, I apologize I am a lot less tactful than forty is conmcb25: No problem, Im the same way , CDG offered us peace and we accepted. conmcb25: Then there galleys approached us and we attacked conmcb25: Is that the issue? Elucidus4: yes it is conmcb25: OK lets look at the specific rule Elucidus4: did the galleys enter your territory conmcb25: And then lets talk Elucidus4: okay conmcb25: Do you have the paragraph number handy? Elucidus4: 3.7 I believe conmcb25: OK Im going to the riules ection conmcb25: 1. we declared war conmcb25: 2. They offered peace not us conmcb25: 3. We accepted Elucidus4: okay, does that make a difference? conmcb25: Then we attacked conmcb25: We didn't specifically ask them for peace to avoid war weariness. conmcb25: They OFFERED peace conmcb25: I dont know what do you think conmcb25: And feel free to be frank conmcb25: Im an 05 ;-) Elucidus4: I mean does it still have the WW effect? I understand they offered, but was WW a factor in your decision to accept? conmcb25: That I would have to check to be honest conmcb25: I dont know conmcb25: I beileve the thought was they were done for and we might as well make peace Elucidus4: oh crap, that would probably mean I should check too Elucidus4: sorry I was trying to keep this as simple as possible conmcb25: I can discuss with Togas our primary turn player and the defacto "lead" consul Elucidus4: please do conmcb25: I believe we would get a straight answer from him conmcb25: Are you going to be around for a while? conmcb25: 15 minutes or so? Elucidus4: yes I will Elucidus4: definately conmcb25: Ok lemme see if I can get him in our chat, he maybe there conmcb25: Be back in a few conmcb25: BTW do you mIRC? For chatting? conmcb25: He may want you to jump in? Elucidus4: yeah I do conmcb25: OK conmcb25: If we need you Ill get you the scoop for the server and room Elucidus4: okay conmcb25: OK conmcb25: I talked to both Oct X and MWIA conmcb25: Oct x just left as consul Elucidus4: MWIA? conmcb25: and MWIA is a consul conmcb25: MrWHEREItsAT Elucidus4: oh okay conmcb25: A long time apoly guy conmcb25: anyway here is how they see it conmcb25: At the time we accepted peace there was nothing to attack conmcb25: We did not know cdg had galleys or if they had them where they were. conmcb25: Therefore there was no benefit at staying in war. Elucidus4: go on conmcb25: They both seem to think that war weariness had not really set in and OCT_X feels that could be proven by a review of the saves Elucidus4: yes I realize that conmcb25: So the intent was not to avoid war weariness. conmcb25: If we cant see CDG and we cant attack, whats the point of remaining at war? conmcb25: Kind of opposite all the nonsense that happened at the PtW ISDG Elucidus4: so it is merely a matter of redeclarring war because there is again a target conmcb25: Bingo conmcb25: Thats the consensus from the leadership I could muster up Elucidus4: do you know how long you were at war before the first peace was declared conmcb25: lemme check conmcb25: I might at least get an estimate Elucidus4: that will be good enough conmcb25: OK turn 89 we officially declared and turn 96 we accepted peace Elucidus4: 13 turns? That isn't really much in the way of WW IMHO conmcb25: actually 7 turns ;-) Elucidus4: lol Elucidus4: yeah sorry conmcb25: And I guess that since we thought CDG had no means to continue war we could have asked for peace but they offered so we said OK. Elucidus4: I understand conmcb25: So I could see how it could be veiwed as trying to avoid WW, but it was not the intent. Elucidus4: Okay, I have all I need, don't worry, I concur with what you are saying conmcb25: OK cool conmcb25: and hey the next time you need me for anything just email me conmcb25: Like I said earlier Elucidus4: I thought I did email you conmcb25: Im not online much in aim or mirc anymore Elucidus4: at the address posted in the forums conmcb25: the bluemarble one? Elucidus4: yeah conmcb25: whats your email addy conmcb25: I may not have recognized it and just zapped it conmcb25: I get WAAAAAAAAY to much spam Elucidus4: np Elucidus4: it all worked out conmcb25: anyway send me another test email if you want and then Ill add you to my book Elucidus4: ok hold Elucidus4: on its way Elucidus4: I didn't want to post what team I needed to contact because if you are found innocent of the charges there is no reason for anyone to know who or what is going on Elucidus4: other than the two teams involved conmcb25: I got it and no I did not get one like that earlier I would have recognized the name ;-) conmcb25: OK cool Elucidus4: :-) Yeah, don't know what happened, maybe i typod conmcb25: Ok one last quick issue if you have another two minutes Elucidus4: sure conmcb25: OK we and PAL own the continent Elucidus4: I work nights so I am usually up pretty late anyway conmcb25: We have both explored the whole thing and done a tile count Elucidus4: okay conmcb25: I dont know if you remember the shape up there is a bottle neck in the middle about 5 tiles wide running east to west conmcb25: Its also about the middle Elucidus4: right conmcb25: we are trying to negotiate a border so we can get about building our Civs and this no map trading thing till navigation is cramping our style conmcb25: We would like to share screen shots of the area we call the "nuetral zone" to go back and forth on a possible border. conmcb25: The intent is to negotiate a border, and its on terrain we have both had visability for for ages. conmcb25: What do you think because the waqy the rule is written is pretty dam rstrictive. conmcb25: restrictive conmcb25: Theoretically wee couldn't even describe the border by saying go 3 tiles southeast of PartyTown or something like that Elucidus4: tell you what, if both teams email me their view of the the area in contention, then I have no problem with it. I believe we also need to write an amendment, if you guys would like to help with that conmcb25: OK sounds fair enough Elucidus4: this way if anyone finds out and starts complaining I have proof conmcb25: iLL GET YOU A SCREENIE OF THE NUTRAL ZONE AND THINK ON AN AMENDMENT conmcb25: dam caps lock Elucidus4: great conmcb25: Ok so we are cool? Elucidus4: yeah Elucidus4: everything is great Elucidus4: I already posted about the game continuing conmcb25: Ok good luck finding a replacement for FortyJ he will be missed and a tough act to follow Elucidus4: yeah tell me about it Elucidus4: well good night, bud conmcb25: OK CYA

	31-12-2004 04:19									#142
	Support Apolyton

Battlelog from CDG about sinking one of our ships on turn 100

quote: The TES Mayflower, in an act of bravery and heroism, attacks and destroys the AS Long Eye, sending all hands to the bottom of the ocean. The Elucidian government sends the message that, although you may have taken our lands, we will do everything in our power to keep our claim to the seas.

	09-02-2005 01:30									#143
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Maxfin Here is the latest updates. We will get military tradition in aprox 30turns. Probably couple turns faster then that. You guys rdy then?

He means approx. turn 146

	09-03-2005 05:44									#144
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

18:19] * Now talking in #palchat
[18:23] * LordNuclear has joined #palchat
[18:23] * Godking sets mode: +o LordNuclear
[18:25] * quesidus has joined #palchat
[18:26] [quesidus] found it
[18:26] [Godking] Hello\
[18:26] * Godking sets mode: +o quesidus
[18:26] [LordNuclear] Welcome
[18:26] [Godking] anybody else joining us from PAL?
[18:26] [quesidus] don't think so, everyone is asleep
[18:27] [Godking] Sleep is a good thing.
[18:27] [LordNuclear] So, what news from BAT?
[18:27] [Godking] I think this is it for us. Most people are either euros and sleeping or americans out west and still working.
[18:27] [quesidus] how can you log this again?
[18:28] [Godking] I forget, I have all mine auto logged
[18:28] [quesidus] ok, just mail me a log once we're done
[18:28] [quesidus] tonight pls, for I won't disconnect b4 I got the log
[18:28] [Godking] let me double check and make sure I am logging
[18:29] [LordNuclear] ews from BAT
[18:29] [LordNuclear] [Godking] I think this is it for us. Most people are either euros and sleeping or americans out west and still working.
[18:29] [LordNuclear] [quesidus] how can you log this again?
[18:29] [LordNuclear] [Godking] I forget, I have all mine auto logged
[18:29] [LordNuclear] [quesidus] ok, just mail me a log once we're done
[18:29] [LordNuclear] [quesidus] tonight pls, for I won't disconnect b4 I go
[18:29] [LordNuclear] we can copy and paste if need be.
[18:29] [quesidus] thnx
[18:29] [quesidus] so, on to the meeting
[18:30] [LordNuclear] Yes...
[18:30] [quesidus] we'd like to know a few things of you:
[18:30] [Godking] sure. Should I load a save?
[18:30] [quesidus] what kinda setup you prefer, 3vBAT, 3vGWT, whatever
[18:30] [quesidus] don't think that's needed
[18:31] [Godking] No pref really.
[18:31] [LordNuclear] Well, we would like a bit more info first.
[18:31] [quesidus] also what your current stance is towards them
[18:31] [LordNuclear] Before we make any large decisions.
[18:31] [LordNuclear] I don't believe we have any stance at the moment...
[18:31] [quesidus] how your development is going (researchrates etc)
[18:31] [Godking] we have not met either in the game. We have history with both in previous demo games, but we prefer to leave the history out of it.
[18:31] [quesidus] and what kinda force you can build up when
[18:31] [quesidus] let's start at the beginning
[18:31] [LordNuclear] We have never met BAT...
[18:31] [Godking] ok
[18:31] [LordNuclear] In previous games...
[18:32] [LordNuclear] Anyways...
[18:32] [LordNuclear] Sorry about crappy English, or slow responses by the way, I broke my arm yesterday.
[18:32] [Godking] ouch.... didn't know that.
[18:32] [quesidus] I wish you the best, can't do much more for ya
[18:33] [LordNuclear] What did you think of BAT?
[18:33] [quesidus] btw, I'm TheDohr, but guess you figured as much
[18:33] [Godking] OK, our research is averaging 15 turns per tech, as our pop is low now and the libraries and markets are still under construciton.
[18:34] [quesidus] well, we've met both BAT and GWT, and are still trying to get them not to interfere with us killin' CDG
[18:34] [quesidus] preferably getting them to help
[18:34] [LordNuclear] BAT entered CDG's capital last turn...
[18:34] [Godking] We have less than 10 gold per turn comming in now, as we are at 70% science to make that 15 turn rate.
[18:34] [quesidus] been a chat with BAT earlier today, and they've made some progress with cementing a sorta deal with BAT
[18:35] [LordNuclear] Who seems stronger?
[18:35] [LordNuclear] BAT?
[18:35] [quesidus] to kill CDG that is, we've made it clear that killing CDG is a prerequisite for anything
[18:35] [Godking] we estimate that by the time we start on our universities, we should be researching at 10 turns, and making 25-30 gpt.
[18:35] [Godking] Agree. CDG is dead.
[18:35] [quesidus] we are weak to BAT, and GWT is weak to us, so BAT is more than 4 times stronger than GWT
[18:35] [LordNuclear] Wow.
[18:36] [LordNuclear] We may want to side with BAT in that case.
[18:36] [LordNuclear] Remember, this game is about survival.
[18:36] [Godking] Which is their cheep units.
[18:36] [Godking] their enkudus (sp?) are cheep and fast, but are already obsolete
[18:37] [quesidus] that's our idea as well
[18:37] [Godking] but quantity is important also.
[18:37] [quesidus] especially since GWT seems to have a bit of a grudge against you because of former demogames
[18:37] [LordNuclear] It is.
[18:37] [quesidus] what happend between you two?
[18:37] [LordNuclear] A war. :P
[18:37] [LordNuclear] We were the two big powers late in the game.
[18:38] [Godking] Haha. War.
[18:38] [LordNuclear] What language is BAT, btw?
[18:38] [Godking] The game was long, hard and lots of bad feelings were exchanged.
[18:38] [Godking] German
[18:38] [Godking] iirc
[18:38] [LordNuclear] Hmm...
[18:38] [LordNuclear] I'm surprised they have not allied with GWT.
[18:38] [quesidus] BAT is french based
[18:38] [quesidus] GWT german
[18:38] [LordNuclear] Ah.
[18:38] [Godking] sorry. Right.
[18:39] [LordNuclear] What is GWT's view on BAT, and vice-versa?
[18:39] [Godking] That is the real question, isn't it.
[18:39] [quesidus] they have a loose peace, but nothing strong
[18:39] [Godking] If they want 2-2 it will be hard.
[18:39] [quesidus] seems they don't really trust eachother
[18:39] [Godking] good for us.
[18:40] [quesidus] so what we wanna know is, if we go for a 3vGWT, do you agree?
[18:40] [Godking] We have no strong pref for either team to tell the truth. This is a new game, and we will follow your lead.
[18:40] [LordNuclear] I do, but we would have to poll the issue.
[18:40] [LordNuclear] Did they give a hint as to their terrain?
[18:41] [quesidus] to be honest, GWT has expressed they will not ever cooperate with you guys, and anyone allied with you is automaticly their enemy
[18:41] [Godking] In truth, our plans are to be your support. Tech and gold for a late mideaval or early industrial assault.
[18:41] [quesidus] so a 3vBAT is kinda outa the question
[18:41] [LordNuclear] Is it now?
[18:41] [LordNuclear] I am shocked at GWT.
[18:41] [LordNuclear] I thought they were better than that.
[18:41] [LordNuclear] But it works out fine.
[18:41] [Godking] Ouch. Never suspected their feelings were so hurt. We did hurt them in the previous game.
[18:42] [LordNuclear] [LordNuclear] Did they give a hint as to their terrain?
[18:42] [Godking] But it wsa just a game after all.
[18:42] * Lord_Phan has joined #palchat
[18:43] [quesidus] btw, phan is comming to sit on the public tribune
[18:43] [quesidus] we didn't expect GWT to have such strong feelings either, but they have
[18:44] [quesidus] as for our warplan, we had the following idea
[18:44] [Godking] we came back from a huge deficit. Started in a jungle, worst start I have seen in a demo game that people didn't demand a restart. We played politics very well to keep our allies alive and take over 1/2 of the world. Then it was a grinding match that ended up with the game just dying as it was taking so long.
[18:45] [Godking] It was PTW
[18:45] [Godking] not conquests
[18:45] [quesidus] clear enough
[18:45] [quesidus] as for the warplan
[18:45] [quesidus] our idea is to build up a force of horsies, and then mass upgrade them to cavalry once we got the tech
[18:46] [quesidus] with those cavalry we sail to GWT shores and wreak havoc
[18:46] [Godking] How is the travel distance?
[18:46] [Godking] What can BAT offer?
[18:46] [quesidus] in the meantime (preferably as early as possible) BAT has started to anoy GWT by pillaging and simply keep 'm busy
[18:47] [Godking] We will be able to trade maps by then I assume.
[18:47] [quesidus] you follow behind with some muskets and hoplites and whatever to occupy the territory we conquer
[18:47] [Godking] How much of their lands has BAT explored?
[18:47] [quesidus] we dunno yet
[18:47] [quesidus] anyways, do you agree with the general plan?
[18:47] [Godking] Yes. We agree.
[18:48] [Godking] Specifics will have to be worked out, of course.
[18:48] [LordNuclear] Sounds good.
[18:48] [quesidus] so, when do you guys have Mono?
[18:48] [Godking] Particularly the timing of the attack, and what techs we wish to have prior to that
[18:48] [Godking] let me look
[18:48] [LordNuclear] Now, when will BAT kill CDG?
[18:49] [quesidus] they'd better kill 'm ASAP, at least, that's what we've been telling 'm to do
[18:49] [Godking] Theology in 4 turns.
[18:50] [quesidus] only once CDG is killed will we continue on the set course
[18:50] [quesidus] doesn't Theo come after Mono?
[18:50] [LordNuclear] Yeah.
[18:50] [LordNuclear] I thought so.
[18:50] [Godking] From the end of the last save. We are making +2 gpt. Once theo is done, we might drop science down to 60% to purchase a few courthouses, libraries and markets.
[18:50] [quesidus] ok, so you have Mono ready, theo in 4 turns, and then 1 tech/15 turns
[18:50] [quesidus] right?
[18:51] [Godking] Ya, in general.
[18:52] [Godking] I have been pushing our consuls to drop science to 18 turns, for one tech to be able to purchase improvements. Net effect will be an increase in science, but short term a decrease. They are saying that they need the short term.
[18:52] [quesidus] as for the general timetable, we were thinking to start attack once we got military tradition, which was roughly at turn 160
[18:52] [Godking] Hmm. 40 turns. Short.
[18:53] [quesidus] by then we hope to have 40 horsies for which we need 3000 gold to get 'm rifles and some training
[18:53] [quesidus] how do you think you guys can fit into that scedule?
[18:53] [LordNuclear] GK would have better knowledge.
[18:53] [Godking] We will not have any money saved up for upgrades if we keep our tech pushing... We will have to do an analysis and see if that will work. It will be very close if it does.
[18:53] [quesidus] what tech researched of the upper tree, how much gold, and how many units ready?
[18:54] [quesidus] pls do... we'll get the results tru the bananashake thingie
[18:54] [Godking] That is something I will have to look into hard. Our cities are still in REX as we used our pop to push out cities and nto a lot of workers.
[18:55] [Godking] We have 7 more cities to build out, with 2 mroe optional ones.
[18:55] [quesidus] how long do you estimate 'till you're done settling the continent?
[18:55] [Godking] we have 2 settlers marching now, with 5 more in the queue to fill in the 7.
[18:55] [Godking] the 5 more will be done in 30 turns.
[18:55] [Godking] we are talking attack in 40 turns.
[18:56] [Godking] we have no military production scheduled for that time, as we are (were) planning on infrastructure.
[18:56] [LordNuclear] Well, how much do you think we should give to the war effort, Dohr?
[18:56] [quesidus] oh, one other thing, it looks like BAT will be able to research faster than you will. so once the 3vGWT is a fact it might be better to have BAT research the upper tree, and have you grab some cash
[18:57] [Godking] That will work really well actually.
[18:57] [LordNuclear] Yes, it would.
[18:57] [Godking] We can backtrack and get those techs we skipped - banking for example.
[18:58] [quesidus] you SKIPPED banking? thought that was quite a bit allong the tech tree
[18:58] [Godking] Once our libraries and universities come on line, we will be researching at a 5-7 turn rate.
[18:58] [quesidus] what techs of this age do you have?
[18:58] [Godking] No, our plan is to skip banking
[18:58] [quesidus] oh, ok
[18:58] [Godking] we are working on theo now. Education (IIRC) comes next
[18:59] [Godking] then astronomy, then navigation for map trading and ocean travel.
[18:59] [quesidus] as we see it now we suggest you provide to the wareffort by getting us some cash for the mass upgrade
[18:59] [LordNuclear] Just?
[19:00] * Godking sets mode: +o Lord_Phan
[19:00] [quesidus] and some muskets/hoplites, whatever to hold the lands we capture from GWT so our cavalry can race onwards
[19:00] [Godking] This will be a good plan. Give me 5 minutes, I will load up the last save and see what our gold rate can be and so forth.
[19:01] [quesidus] fair enough
[19:01] [quesidus] as for the techs, I think our alliance will be able to shut down research once we've got Military Tradition and Navigation
[19:03] [quesidus] we will be able to take care of MT, you will have to check with BAT how to reach Navigation together
[19:04] [quesidus] oh, and they are thinking of Chivalry to complement the whole thing
[19:04] [Godking] If we drop down to a 10% research now, theo comes in 29 turns and we are making 104 gpt.
[19:04] [Godking] We have 33 units, support for 20
[19:04] [Godking] 2 units are settlers
[19:05] [Godking] Where are you on the tech tree?
[19:05] [quesidus] I believe we get gunpowder this turn
[19:05] [quesidus] lemme check
[19:07] [Godking] I would advise us to finish theo at full science for now.
[19:07] [quesidus] I tend to agree
[19:07] [Godking] Also, where does BAT stand on science?
[19:07] [quesidus] especially since the deal with BAT ain't cemented yet
[19:07] [quesidus] BAT is behind us both in tech, I believe they have feud
[19:08] [Godking] Ouch. That far back... they did say they were going for the Great Library though.
[19:09] [LordNuclear] It would be good if they get it ASAP.
[19:09] [Godking] GWT is where, about the same as BAT I would assume.
[19:10] [quesidus] GWT is just outa the ancient age, they miss feud
[19:10] [Godking] Great Library doesn't do them any good unless 2 civs they HAVE MEET have the new techs.
[19:10] [Godking] As they haven't met us....
[19:10] [quesidus] anyways, I think it's a good idea you confer with BAT once you guys meet
[19:11] [quesidus] and together figure how to best reach Navigation and maybe Chivalry, and get as much gold while doing so
[19:11] [Godking] Ya. but we cannot sail towards them til we get astronomy. If then.
[19:11] [quesidus] oh, and BAT says they'll have the library next turn
[19:12] [quesidus] we're exploring the map, and will tell you where a possible suicide galley might be needed to contact
[19:13] [Godking] Good for them. But do we really want to make contact with them? Think, the library is worthless, and we can then trade techs freely if we want.
[19:13] [Godking] We can use your contact as an intermediatary to us if we have to.
[19:13] [quesidus] true, just exploring options here
[19:14] [quesidus] anyways, I think we're just about done now
[19:14] [quesidus] to summarize:
[19:14] [quesidus] we're trying to get BAT to kill CDG
[19:15] [Godking] if they do, then the alliance is a good ways to being on.
[19:15] [quesidus] you're gona check how much you can contribute to the wareffort at a date somewhere around turn 160, both in tech, gold and units
[19:15] [quesidus] we've agreed that a 3vGWT is the most favourable
[19:15] [Godking] We will provide an analysis within a week. I should say I will provide it.
[19:16] [quesidus] we've agreed that the general warplan is PAL attacks with cavalry, BAT annoys with whatever they got, APO follows with hoplites/muskets to hold land and maybe pillage a bit
[19:16] [quesidus] have I missed anything?
[19:17] [Godking] No. But it might be better to have BAT do some coordination with our attacks.
[19:17] [Godking] BAT's roll will have to be worked out depending on what they have available.
[19:18] [Godking] Also, sending lots of techs to BAT will tip our hand, so we must be careful about timing.
[19:18] [quesidus] agreed
[19:18] [LordNuclear] Does BAT have a YIM address?
[19:18] [Godking] We don't want to be fighting a bunch of cities with walls and 4+ defenders each.
[19:19] [Godking] even if they are just pikemen
[19:19] [quesidus] dunno, you'd have to ask them
[19:19] [quesidus] true
[19:19] [Godking] Sounds like we have a plan.
[19:20] [Godking] I will work on the analysis this week, and hope to post it over at BCE this weekend.
[19:20] [quesidus] in that case I'd like to wrap things up, so I can go 'n hug my pillow ;-)
[19:20] [Godking] It would help to know info from your team though.
[19:20] [Godking] Tech rate - unit strenght - stuff like that.
[19:20] [Godking] Have your team post it at BCE
[19:21] [quesidus] I'll ask 'm too
[19:21] [Godking] along with any estimates you might have from BAT
[19:21] [quesidus] personally I don't know much in that area
[19:21] [Godking] No prob.
[19:21] [Godking] Night.
[19:21] [Godking] (unless there is anything else?)
[19:22] [Godking] Nuke, can you post the chat?
[19:22] [quesidus] not really, only one question
[19:22] [quesidus] can one of you send me the chatlog
[19:22] [quesidus] quesidus@planet.nl
[19:22] [Godking] Nuke?
[19:22] [LordNuclear] Sure.
[19:22] [Godking] Thanks. I am out of here then.
[19:23] [quesidus] for I can't go to bed 'till I have the log posted
[19:23] [Godking] If you need anything, my email is godking@prodigy.net
[19:27] * Lord_Phan has left #palchat

< and > stripped the names of the names in the log

Last edited by ormuzd on 09-03-2005 at 12:40

	21-03-2005 08:10									#145
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sent to BAT's two listed save e-mail address.

quote: Salutations! I am Octavian X, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Apolytonian Republic. We've recently made contact with a Sumerien galley off the shores of our nation, and we are glad to have recently met your civilization. We would like to schedule a chat sometime soon so we can discuss various diplomatic matters. Of vital importance is also discussion of greater technical, commercial, and military cooperation between Apolyton, your nation, and PAL in preparation for a possible joint invasion of Webringen. Of course, we can always be contacted via e-mail with our team address: apolyton-c3c@@@rockbandit....net ~Octavian X Minister of Foreign Affairs, Apolyton

	22-03-2005 21:27									#146
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

response

quote: Salutations, It is with pleasure we finally meet your civilization. I am Lordevil, the Foreign minister of the Batros Republic. Of course, we are looking forward to schedule a chat with you too. All my governments members live in France and are often available between 8.30 PM and 10.30 PM (Paris time) but i Live in Montreal, I am also available between 8.30 and 10.30 PM but Eastern time. So let me know your avaibility and I will try to schedule something. Respectfully, Lordevil

	27-03-2005 10:54									#147
	Got spare money?

quote: Hi, I am sorry, it is my bad. But due to the Easter Holiday, it was difficult to find somebody available. I guess that next Saturday should be better. I will confirm it during the week. Lordevil

	31-03-2005 05:17									#148
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

From MREX:

quote: To the Rulers of the Great Kingdom of Apolyton: Many years have passed since our war long ago. Since that time, little contact has existed between our peoples. You have undoubtably done well since this time, profiting the most for the war. The people of Elucidia have fervently stressed that we are a peaceful nation with no desire for war. We will hold true to this belief until the end. What has happened in the past is done, and, although it cannot be undone, it does not need to affect the future. As you may know, war has resumed between the People's Army of the Ladder and ourselves. This is due to the persistant harassment by PAL ships of war. We have even fled our new homes once again and their horses graze on land that we once farmed. Even so, we did not resume this war until our very survival was at stake. We have sunk one of their war Galleys and more will fall as well if we have to defend ourselves. This message is not here to scorn you for old hostilities, or even to talk about the events of PAL and ourselves. It is to talk about the future. Although the war in the past might have involved both Apolyton and PAL, this war is not a war against Apolyton. We wish, if you desire, to be able to consider you a friend once more. We realize that attitudes will not change over night, but let me be the first to offer the olive branch. Let's look to the future to end old hostilities, not create new ones. Sincerely, Louis XXIV Foreign Minister of Elucidia

NOTE: The email adress seems to be:

idg@mrex.org

	20-04-2005 00:54									#149
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think this must be some sort of official corrospondence from GWT:

(And my response)

quote: Bischop If your team would like to send us an official letter send it to me here via the PM system, Ill make sure it gets posted to the forums. In the meantime I will get you some good email adresses. Im not very active right now and we have had turnover in leadership so Ill double check the proper emails for you. BUT right now just send it to me here. quote: bischop wrote on Sunday, April 17th, 2005 15:56:25: hi conmcb25 gwd has a question what is the email adress of apo in this game based on the cdg forum we have some questions !! Cu bischop