14-04-2004 21:55									#121
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You aren't getting PC on us are you 'Gassy?

	14-04-2004 21:57									#122
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No I'm not calling them blacks, but that is the attitude that National is conveying.

All that happened is that National got desperate since nothing they did was raising their poll numbers. So they decided to play to the troglodyte's gallery by whipping up racism. All in all it was a pretty low move. I imagine that older Nats like Bolger, who worked hard to gain some credibility with Maori will be furious. And Brash's treatment of Georgina Te Heu Heu was disgraceful. She's from my home town and is an extremely well respected person among Maori and non-Maori alike (I like her and I'm a radical lefty). She's one of the few National politicians who actually has some integrity - and he slapped her about. That was disgraceful.

I suppose that if it doesn't work he can always go the Winston route and pick on Asians. That would get the Maoris onside.

Political fighting is nothing - New Zealand does not have a race problem. It only becomes a problem when people start taking it beyond the political arena - which of course is the proper sphere to deal with such problems.

	14-04-2004 21:57									#123
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quote: I campaigned with the Anti-Nazi League and Anti-Racist Alliance primarily because I thought BNP and NF members were a dangerous strain of pond life.

I did because some racist idiot decided to hassle and prank-call my family because we have a Jewish name . What worries me is the attempt to disguise that element of the far right, in an attempt to gain respectability.

	14-04-2004 21:58									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue They are black aren't they?

Maoris? Nah, more like a range of lighter browns.

	14-04-2004 21:59									#125
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Ah that explains it..

	14-04-2004 22:00									#126
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The BNP are a bunch of racist thugs.

	14-04-2004 22:03									#127
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quote: The BNP are a bunch of racist thugs

	14-04-2004 22:04									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo The BNP are a bunch of racist thugs.

True... but they are not the ONLY thugs around.

I'm quite annoyed at the ANL (Anti-Nazi-League) who seem to foam at the mouth any time the BNP are even mentioned.

Personally, I prefer pro-parties rather than anti parties... as the BNP are anti-immigration, it's the main reason I don't like them, support them, or indeed have time for them.

However, I'm not about to take a big stick and beat the crap out of them.

Not yet.

	14-04-2004 22:04									#129
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THugs? From what I remeber the largest percentage of BNP voters is found amongst the 65+, and amongst those, in the females. Thugs?

You just don't have a clue and either listen too much to the BBC, or those brainwashed by it such as Laz and MikeH. They aren't representative of the true Briton.

	14-04-2004 22:05									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon No I'm not calling them blacks, but that is the attitude that National is conveying.

What?! I don't see that at all! Can you give me some examples of National attitudes that you see as portraying Maoris as blacks?

quote: All that happened is that National got desperate since nothing they did was raising their poll numbers. So they decided to play to the troglodyte's gallery by whipping up racism. All in all it was a pretty low move. I imagine that older Nats like Bolger, who worked hard to gain some credibility with Maori will be furious. And Brash's treatment of Georgina Te Heu Heu was disgraceful. She's from my home town and is an extremely well respected person among Maori and non-Maori alike (I like her and I'm a radical lefty). She's one of the few National politicians who actually has some integrity - and he slapped her about. That was disgraceful.

I'm not up with that incident. All I know is that Brash said all NZers should be treated equally - which I agree with.

quote: Political fighting is nothing - New Zealand does not have a race problem. It only becomes a problem when people start taking it beyond the political arena - which of course is the proper sphere to deal with such problems.

NZ's race problems were smoothing themselves out until the 1975 Treaty of Waitangi act...now every maori who thinks he can get something for being Maori is jumping on the Waitangi Tribunal gravy train. I think even you would agree that there have been many false grievances filed.

	14-04-2004 22:06									#131
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I don't know about the ANL beating up the BNP *sympathy pangs*.

The ANL isn't a political party with a policy, its only agenda is the prevention of Nazism. If you have a political party with one agenda (like the cessation of immigration) then you have a problem, but I see the ANL as more of a pressure group.

	14-04-2004 22:06									#132
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quote: They aren't representative of the true Briton.

Who is the true Briton?

	14-04-2004 22:08									#133
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Someone who doesn't want Muslims and their inferior culture running our country in 50 - 100 years.

	14-04-2004 22:10									#134
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quote: Someone who doesn't want Muslims and their inferior culture running our country in 50 - 100 years.

What are your grounds for saying that length of time? Why is muslim culture inferior and why does being of one particular viewpoint makes you a true Briton? Why aren't I a true Briton?

	14-04-2004 22:12									#135
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The timespan was an estimate, I want it to never happen.

Just look at the Middle East. The biggest shithole on earth. Because of Muslim culture and religion. We don't want another middle-east in Western Europe, but with the way us and France are going it's looking like we will.

At least they've clamped down on headscarves, and some countries (Denmark I think) are seeing that they don't want their country led by delusional thugs.

	14-04-2004 22:13									#136
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The BNP sounds like a bunch of xenophobic asshats.

	14-04-2004 22:13									#137
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"The BNP sounds like a bunch of xenophobic asshats."

You know nothing about them

	14-04-2004 22:14									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue THugs? From what I remeber the largest percentage of BNP voters is found amongst the 65+, and amongst those, in the females. Thugs? You just don't have a clue and either listen too much to the BBC, or those brainwashed by it such as Laz and MikeH. They aren't representative of the true Briton.

No, I just listen to the local BNP supporters.

A more useless, moronic bunch of ****ers I have yet to meet.

Darwin said such people were slated for extinction, and who really could disagree?

Either shape up or ship out.

	14-04-2004 22:15									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue THugs? From what I remeber the largest percentage of BNP voters is found amongst the 65+, and amongst those, in the females. Thugs?

And, of course, the term "voters" was what Ramo meant, wasn't it? Not "members", "Activists" or "Leadership".

Hmm.....percentage of 65+ women among the National Executive looks a bit low to me.

	14-04-2004 22:15									#140
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Brash said that all New Zealanders should be treated equally. This is code for saying, "We don't give a damn about living up to the treaty we signed and we want things to stay the way they are now, with those coons in their place."

The TOW act was created for a very good reason. Maori were given the rights of Her Majesty's subjects by the Treaty which they signed in good faith. The crown was lax in keeping up its side of the bargain and allowed Maori property to be stolen or confiscated it themselves.

How would you feel if your great grandfather was robbed of a valuable farm by the government? Would you care? Most people would want to see some compensation.

The money spent on the Treaty is not particularly much. It's just moaned about by some New Zealanders who can't stand the idea that Maori should get anything.

They're the indigenous people and they have special rights which they negotiated when they signed the treaty. Like any contract these can be renegotiated with the agreement of both parties. The special rights they gain aren't particularly egregious and really shouldn't bother anyone else that much. After all the Maori were ready and willing to send hundreds of their own men to die in wars which had nothing to do with them, and they were far and away our best soldiers. They did this because they believed it was their duty as citizens (a duty that the treaty imposed on them) - why do you want to deny them the benefits of citizenship?

	14-04-2004 22:15									#141
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quote: True... but they are not the ONLY thugs around. I'm quite annoyed at the ANL (Anti-Nazi-League) who seem to foam at the mouth any time the BNP are even mentioned.

Foaming at the mouth doesn't make one a thug. And if Laz is representative of the ANL, I doubt they foam at the mouth very much.

	14-04-2004 22:16									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue "The BNP sounds like a bunch of xenophobic asshats." You know nothing about them

I do, however, and I'll happily agree with the statement.

	14-04-2004 22:16									#143
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quote: Just look at the Middle East. The biggest shithole on earth. Because of Muslim culture and religion. We don't want another middle-east in Western Europe, but with the way us and France are going it's looking like we will.

Until the period of empire destroyed the economies of the region, the Muslim populations in the ME were among the most advanced in the world, second probably only to the Far East. The fact that it is a problem area is the fault of the West, not of Islam .

quote: At least they've clamped down on headscarves, and some countries (Denmark I think) are seeing that they don't want their country led by delusional thugs.

Which is why people should not vote for the BNP

	14-04-2004 22:17									#144
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Ditto Laz

	14-04-2004 22:19									#145
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"The fact that it is a problem area is the fault of the West, not of Islam"



Geez, we have a freedom-loving country trying to gift democracy having deposed a dictator too, and the Muslims are still fighting them. They are just useless down there.

The more Muslims we get here, the higher the risks of terrorism too. In 50 years we'll be apologising to our grandkids for doing nothing about this invasion. That is my worst dream.

	14-04-2004 22:22									#146
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Lazarus what made me become a member of the BNP are the following things.
1. They are the only nationalist party in England
2. They will reject anyone the right to asylum.

But most important of all they would put British interests first, above all else. They will maintain an independent foreign policy of our own, and not a spineless subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country.
No more sending men half way around the world to fight for Bush or anyone else. They will make the army stronger and give troops better equipment. They will not hand over our any of our rights to the EU.

What is the point of an organisation like the Anti-Nazi league? They are just a bunch of militant thugs, this is a Democracy and yet the Anti-Nazi and the other anti-BNP groups campaign for 'no platform for the BNP'. Are you afraid that people will like what they have to say? If not then there is no point to it, let the BNP have a platform and let members of the main parties debate with them.

	14-04-2004 22:24									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Brash said that all New Zealanders should be treated equally. This is code for saying, "We don't give a damn about living up to the treaty we signed and we want things to stay the way they are now, with those coons in their place."

You certainly have a fertile imagination. But then, communists usually do.

quote: The TOW act was created for a very good reason. Maori were given the rights of Her Majesty's subjects by the Treaty which they signed in good faith. The crown was lax in keeping up its side of the bargain and allowed Maori property to be stolen or confiscated it themselves.

I'm not denying wrongs of the past, but both sides have skeletons in the closet. Some Maoris sold land they didn't own, sometimes many times over.

quote: How would you feel if your great grandfather was robbed of a valuable farm by the government? Would you care? Most people would want to see some compensation. The money spent on the Treaty is not particularly much. It's just moaned about by some New Zealanders who can't stand the idea that Maori should get anything. They're the indigenous people and they have special rights which they negotiated when they signed the treaty. Like any contract these can be renegotiated with the agreement of both parties. The special rights they gain aren't particularly egregious and really shouldn't bother anyone else that much. After all the Maori were ready and willing to send hundreds of their own men to die in wars which had nothing to do with them, and they were far and away our best soldiers. They did this because they believed it was their duty as citizens (a duty that the treaty imposed on them) - why do you want to deny them the benefits of citizenship?

Well I certainly have a lot I could respond with, but I don't want to continue this threadjack any longer...feel free to create a thread on it if you like.

	14-04-2004 22:25									#148
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quote: Geez, we have a freedom-loving country trying to gift democracy having deposed a dictator too, and the Muslims are still fighting them. They are just useless down there.

I was referring to most of the entire second millenium but nonetheless, perhaps the Muslims don't see it like that, and why is your view of what you think they should think more valid than what they do in fact think? However, Iraq is something of a red herring to this argument, you were saying that Islam is an inferior culture, yet you have failed to show that thus far.

quote: The more Muslims we get here, the higher the risks of terrorism too. In 50 years we'll be apologising to our grandkids for doing nothing about this invasion. That is my worst dream.

Wow that was ...really dumb! It's not an invasion by any definition, and terrorism is a threat from any community that one suppresses, hence the need to reduce those elements that wish to suppress them, including the BNP.

	14-04-2004 22:27									#149
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quote: They will maintain an independent foreign policy of our own, and not a spineless subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country.

Did you write that?

quote: What is the point of an organisation like the Anti-Nazi league? They are just a bunch of militant thugs, this is a Democracy and yet the Anti-Nazi and the other anti-BNP groups campaign for 'no platform for the BNP'. Are you afraid that people will like what they have to say? If not then there is no point to it, let the BNP have a platform and let members of the main parties debate with them.

I've been involved with the ANL and I can say I've seen no elements that wish to deny freedom of speech to the BNP. And I am unaware of any generalisable trend of ANL violence against the BNP, though I'm sure there have been some isolated incidents , which does no-one any good.

	14-04-2004 22:27									#150
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Incidentally, a cousin from Leeds who came from a Muslim household is visiting me right now, and seems like a fully assimilated Brit (and is a Deist).