18-04-2004 15:27									#211
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"Funny how so many of the intolerant actually don't have any real experience of people from other cultures..."



Actually I find it's those like me and Cali who have realistic views on race who have quite sizeable amount of experience.

	18-04-2004 15:29									#212
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Can you change your avatar?

	18-04-2004 15:31									#213
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You talking to me?

	18-04-2004 15:31									#214
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yes - my 3 year old is trying to copy the little sprog in your avatar.

	18-04-2004 15:35									#216
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thank you for the sympathy.

	18-04-2004 16:13									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue It's not that I dislike them for where they come from, just I think every people should have a homeland. Of course if you disagree you can go to the US.

The homeland of British citizens is Britain- if they hold dual citizenship then it's up to the individual to decide what they consider to be their homeland.

If you're proposing "homeland" should represent ethnic origin? You could end up assigning a new homeland to every Briton of Saxon, Norse or Norman descent. Those Turks would be packed off to Mongolia, etc, etc.

	18-04-2004 17:15									#218
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We're not going back tens of generations here, that would be stupidity itself.

But we live in a different era where mass migration poses greater problems than before.

	18-04-2004 17:34									#219
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Why?

	18-04-2004 17:40									#220
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Terrorism. Population density. Drugs.

	18-04-2004 18:19									#221
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...1078161,00.html

quote: A LEADING British Muslim politician should be killed for committing “apostasy” by supporting anti-terrorist policies, a Muslim extremist has claimed.

Interesting article in the Sunday Times today. First point of note: this Lord Ahmed, even though he is a Muslim, takes a far harder stance against the Allah Queerboys than most of his Labour colleagues do.

quote: He angered some Muslims recently by urging that clerics should be forced to take tests in English language and culture.

Why do the BNP want to deport people like this? They're others just like him in the Muslim community, it's just that extremists get most of the coverage.

Second point of note: there are indeed people in Britain that should not be there - like the al-Muhajiroun group that condemn him. But look at their numbers - roughly 2,000. That's a pretty insignificant figure when you consider the amount of Muslims in Britain.

quote: At the meetings, members of the group rejected their nationality. “We’re not British. Either you are British or you are Muslim. You can’t be both,” said Saliah. “What does ‘British’ mean? ‘British’ means you give your allegiance to the Queen. Is the Queen Muslim? Of course she is not.”

What can I say to this? Well, that the British government should aim to please by revoking their citizenship and packing them off to Saudi Arabia or a similar country where their views are more in line with the rest of the population. It's what they want after all.

Let's remind ourselves who's out there condemning these guys again. Is it Blair? No. It's a Muslim, who also calls for tests on English language and culture. I'm still waiting for the BNP to commend him for his stance.

	18-04-2004 19:50									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Terrorism. Population density. Drugs.

History lesson time. Pay more attention to this than you did at school.

You say this is worse than ever in the past. Consider that the greatest danger associated with migration was plague, followed by war. It's been some time since the last outbreak of the Black Death, and there hasn't been a pitched battle on English soil in over 300 years.

What's more, the "British character" was shaped and created by those past traumas, not destroyed by it. Do you really think we're that weak and spineless that we must be preserved under a glass dome with a sprinkling of mothballs?

	18-04-2004 21:27									#223
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Yes, I do think our country has at its core a large group of people with weak backbones. A catch all term is Lib Dems.

	18-04-2004 22:28									#224
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Allah Queerboys?

	19-04-2004 04:46									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Actually I find it's those like me and Cali who have realistic views on race who have quite sizeable amount of experience.

Also, the politicians and media types who pay lip service to multiculturalism usually live in white neighbourhoods and send their children to schools with very few minorities.

	19-04-2004 18:00									#226
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Yep, and Laz I expect.

And just because immigration has happened before (and been either a problem or a success), does not mean we have to let it again.

	19-04-2004 18:09									#227
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I thought the people with no backbone were the ones who were scared of a few immigrants. (or people of different skin tone/sexuality).

	19-04-2004 18:21									#228
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH I thought the people with no backbone were the ones who were scared of a few immigrants. (or people of different skin tone/sexuality).

I'm not scared of people with a different skin tone or sexuality. I don't even feel uncomfortable around them. Some of my friends fall into these catagories.

	19-04-2004 18:23									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Yep, and Laz I expect.

Not in Laz's case I don't think. I seem to remember him stating that his area was fairly mixed.

	19-04-2004 19:10									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild You'd have to take this argument up with a moral relativist.

Please, PLEASE don't tempt Whaleboy to

	19-04-2004 19:13									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Derekrage I dont think I've ever met someone before who was a pacifist and pro-market. The pacifists I know are extreme socialists who scream from every rooftop(really) that the revolution is coming, it's quite embarisng.

Really? I've met loads, including myself. War generally involves lots of nationalised industry, disrupts normal business, and conscription isn't the best thing for the economy. I hate war and I love money the free market

There were millions of people against the Iraq war, a million or so strongly enough to go and protest for it. There aren't a million extreme socialists, otherwise socialist parties might actually get some votes.

	19-04-2004 21:25									#232
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A majority supports the war.

It's just people with a lot of free-time on their hands that have the opportunity to protest (ie, ******** students and the unemployed).

They don't represent the nation or anyone else. They just want to get loaded and have a party on the streets of London.

Acting like they care.

	19-04-2004 21:38									#233
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I can't believe a supposedly educated person like you can have such ridiculous opinions PA.

A million people protesting any issue can't be ignored. It's the biggest protest ever seen in this country by a huge margin. It's many more than protested the poll tax. And the make up of the protesters was mainly normal people, not professional protesters. You know as well as I do that for every person that can make it to London to protest (and the million doesn't count all the other protests that went on in every town and city around the country at the same time, only the london ones) there are many more at home not protesting.

I suppose you'd say an even greater majority supported the poll tax than supported the war.

I'm not sure why you think the Daily Mail opinion is in the majority. Maybe because you live in one of those fetid scum pits that breeds racism and homophobia.

	19-04-2004 22:09									#234
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A majority supports the war. That is plainly the case.

(I was 7 or 8 when the poll tax riots were on .)

	20-04-2004 01:05									#235
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quote: Really? I've met loads, including myself. War generally involves lots of nationalised industry, disrupts normal business, and conscription isn't the best thing for the economy. I hate war and I love money the free market

2 pacifists that are capatalists, maybe they're not that rare then. But since you are pro-market can you explain why you are a pacifist, did you have a bad experience related to war, were you raised to be a pacifist or did you develop a pacifist philosophy as you grew up?
I realise it's a rather broad question but I would appreciate you giving me an insight into the pacifist mind other than 'because Marx said so' which pretty much sums my pacifist mates attitudes.

quote: There were millions of people against the Iraq war, a million or so strongly enough to go and protest for it. There aren't a million extreme socialists, otherwise socialist parties might actually get some votes.

Ah..but you don't have to be a pacifist to be against the Iraq war, even I was against British involvement. I say British involvement because if the Americans want to 'flex their muscles' then I say good luck to them



Mike H - I am not scared of a few immigrants, its when the numbers start reaching the tens of thousands that I get worried.

	20-04-2004 02:28									#236
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So you've spent your entire life in fear? Chill out, you poor sod. Immigration is a fact of life.

Don't take this the wrong way, but have you lead a sheltered life? You've just been surprised by encountering a pro-market pacifist and you're now being addressed by a left-winger who fully supported the Iraq invasion. It's all just a question of forming an opinion on each issue based on their own individual; merits.

Just like some of us judge immigrants on their own individual merits, as opposed to quaking in fear at perceived threats from an amorpheous mass of "Them!", in fact. Life's too short to be scared of shadows.

	20-04-2004 03:02									#237
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quote: Don't take this the wrong way, but have you lead a sheltered life? You've just been surprised by encountering a pro-market pacifist and you're now being addressed by a left-winger who fully supported the Iraq invasion. It's all just a question of forming an opinion on each issue based on their own individual; merits.

What makes you think I've led a sheltered life? I have spent most of my adult life in the army but I wouldn't call that being sheltered, quite the opposite in fact. About the pro-market pacifists, like I mentioned earlier, all of the pacifists that I have ever met have been socialist of some sort, now I admit I have not talked to a lot of pacifists but I dont generally talk about politics much anyway. As for forming an opinion on an issue due to the merits, I do. I am a nationalist therefore by a lot of people beliefs I am far-right but I also have socialist ideals aswell.


I don't quake in fear at sight of Muslims burning the Union Jack but I do feel anger, our parents and grandparents fought world war 1 and 2 to defend Britain and what do we? Stand by and do ****all while africans and arabs start taking over British cities, do you not think it's time we started to fight for what is rightfully ours?
I hear people moaning on all the time about how the Jews settled in Palestine and stole their land yet these same people preach on and on about the wonders of multi-culturism for Britain. I just hope British people have the balls to do something about it before we are the minority in our own country and are oppressed because we are not black or Muslim.

	20-04-2004 04:52									#238
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Stew,

quote: Actually I find it's those like me and Cali who have realistic views on race who have quite sizeable amount of experience.

Your entire life has been spent in towns that are almost entirely homogenously white. In your entire school year, I can only recall one girl (Geeta) who would not have tick "white British" on their census form. Unlike most metropolitan areas, Salford as a whole has a tiny proportion of ethnic minority residents. Don't even try to pretend that Aberystwyth has high numbers of non-whites, either, because you'll fool no-one.

So where's this experience of dealing with culture clash? Stopping at a corner shop in Farnworth doesn't count...

	20-04-2004 12:42									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Also, the politicians and media types who pay lip service to multiculturalism usually live in white neighbourhoods and send their children to schools with very few minorities.

And the unimaginative right wingers like you and P.A. spew out cliche after cliche and glib quotes like that one with no 'facts' to back them up.

I support multiculturalism, have always lived in inner city areas, have never lived in an all white neighbourhood, and have always had at least one next door neighbour from an ethnic minority.

Just what is it about Johnny Foreigner that tightens the sphincters of the likes of you and P.A. ?

The slight chance that they just might be better examples of human beings than the two of you?

	20-04-2004 14:02									#240
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Where have you been abroad EiF?