15-04-2004 00:50									#181
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quote: Isn't it the case that over 90% of Britons are white?

93% of Britons are white. This could be higher, depending on how you classify mixed race people.

quote: 100% are.

Trevor MacDonald isn't British?

	15-04-2004 01:35									#182
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quote: "Isn't it the case that over 90% of Britons are white?" 100% are.

The law says differently . Attempting to classify a nationality as part of someones innate physical or racial characteristics is idiotic to say that least...

	15-04-2004 02:01									#183
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quote: The english in much of India is good, and improving. Furthermore, the Indians are benefiting, whereas the recourse for British workers is greater than the Indians alternative.

The english in India may be good but it is not their native language, it is especially difficult to understand on the phone. British people should always be placed higher by our companies, I believe that capitalism should be used for the benefit of the society therefore I in my opinion companies should have responsibility to the society that has allowed them to start their business in the first place. It doesn't matter if the British people are more likely to find another job. If a British company (based in Britain) is employing over seas workers then they are jobs that could be filled by unemployed British people. Which would benefit the British economy because they will have more money to spend in the British economy.

	15-04-2004 02:06									#184
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Well we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a free-market (to a point) advocate that believes in freedom of association and the fact that the market will tend to equalise wealth without protectionism . I do feel however that I am at a stronger position because I do not apply nationalistic boundaries to an economy, since your argument would only really work if we were truly economically isolated, a bad thing I think we can all agree.

	15-04-2004 02:19									#185
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quote: Well we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a free-market (to a point) advocate that believes in freedom of association and the fact that the market will tend to equalise wealth without protectionism . I do feel however that I am at a stronger position because I do not apply nationalistic boundaries to an economy, since your argument would only really work if we were truly economically isolated, a bad thing I think we can all agree.

I dont think I've ever met someone before who was a pacifist and pro-market. The pacifists I know are extreme socialists who scream from every rooftop(really) that the revolution is coming, it's quite embarisng.

	15-04-2004 02:21									#186
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quote: I dont think I've ever met someone before who was a pacifist and pro-market. The pacifists I know are extreme socialists who scream from every rooftop(really) that the revolution is coming, it's quite embarisng.

True, but you've never met Whaleboy before (I hate war more than I love the free market so I guess I'd still side with them on the important issue, if not their economic credentials.)

	16-04-2004 01:59									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Derekrage [quote]The english in India may be good but it is not their native language,

Actually it is. English is one of India's official languages, is seen as the language to know if you want to succeed, and frankly, and Indian accent is often easier to understand than the Scottish accents I get when I call some helplines.

Anyway, the preservation of a 50year old "snapshot" of the UK is terrifying to say the least. Aside from my own moral reasonings about favouring immigration, I don't trust the BNP one bit to focus forever on migration. What other subcultures will they go after? White Britain, white straight Britain?

This is a solidarity thing.

	16-04-2004 02:24									#188
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quote: Actually it is. English is one of India's official languages, is seen as the language to know if you want to succeed, and frankly, and Indian accent is often easier to understand than the Scottish accents I get when I call some helplines.

I know English is a popular language in India because of the colonial legacy but it is not their first language. By the way, is English an official language for the whole of India or just parts of it?
Anyway it would't really matter to me if English was the Indian's native language, they are still doing jobs that should be filled by Britons.

quote: Anyway, the preservation of a 50year old "snapshot" of the UK is terrifying to say the least. Aside from my own moral reasonings about favouring immigration, I don't trust the BNP one bit to focus forever on migration. What other subcultures will they go after? White Britain, white straight Britain?

I do not want a preservation of a 50 year old UK (its too late for that anyway). I am talking about what I think is best for Britain in the future, not returning to the past.
If you dont not trust the BNP then you dont trust them, I know that there is nothing that I can say that will change your mind but the BNP is already controversial and if they intended to 'go after another subculture' as you put it I think you would have heard something about it now by now.

	16-04-2004 02:40									#189
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Honey, I don't trust any authority, not just the BNP. For I am the Starchild who walks by himself and all places are alike to me.

It's also a very short time frame you're looking at. We've survived past immigration. We'll survive this one. Hell, the concept of Britishness survived and adapted centuries of rule by a French speaking aristocracy, union with Scotland, the loss of Empire, and the initial wave of Indian immigration. We've been dealing with immigration since the Romans stationed North African centurians along Hadrian's Wall. Is there really so little faith in our culture that we can't adapt to this, that our core beliefs are strong enough to survive?

I mean, come on, we're building a new globalised world! We're creating new political structures and new ways of thinking. Yes, yes, there are adjustment problems, there always are. But isn't that newness exciting! In 150 years*, we'll look back and wonder what the fuss was about. Things change, that's the point of life.


*personally I believe that the Human Era will be over by then (the 21st century being our make or break century) but that's beside the point of this discussion

	16-04-2004 02:59									#190
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quote: It's also a very short time frame you're looking at. We've survived past immigration. We'll survive this one. Hell, the concept of Britishness survived and adapted centuries of rule by a French speaking aristocracy, union with Scotland, the loss of Empire, and the initial wave of Indian immigration. We've been dealing with immigration since the Romans stationed North African centurians along Hadrian's Wall. Is there really so little faith in our culture that we can't adapt to this, that our core beliefs are strong enough to survive?

This immigration is nothing like the past, we have 50-100 thousand asylum seeker coming into Britain each year. Very few of these people try to adopt British values, they simpy act like they are still in their own country. I am going to be honest, I believe our values and culture are superior to that of the immigrants that are coming in from outside the western world. Why should our society have to accomodate their backward beliefs?

	16-04-2004 03:18									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Derekrage This immigration is nothing like the past, we have 50-100 thousand asylum seeker coming into Britain each year. Very few of these people try to adopt British values, they simpy act like they are still in their own country. I am going to be honest, I believe our values and culture are superior to that of the immigrants that are coming in from outside the western world. Why should our society have to accomodate their backward beliefs?

*shrug* I'm morally self-centred. I believe my own values are superior to anything else based on my reasoning. Fortunately, they tend to overlap more or less with other Enlightenment values. Bits of Existentialism thrown in to keep people on their toes. You'd have to take this argument up with a moral relativist.

	16-04-2004 13:53									#192
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"Is there really so little faith in our culture that we can't adapt to this, that our core beliefs are strong enough to survive?"

I have faith in our culture. I just don't have faith in Muslim's and middle eastern "culture".

"I believe our values and culture are superior to that of the immigrants that are coming in from outside the western world. Why should our society have to accomodate their backward beliefs?"

Well one's thing for sure, when Muslims become the majority in this country, it's not the BNP people like Starchild should be worrying about, it's the leadership who will be devoutly anti-homosexual.

Backward beliefs of immigrants include anti-homosexulity, Starchild, if you hadn't realised.

I don't think they share your "solidarity".

	17-04-2004 15:46									#193
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Honey, you know how little I value your opinion anyway so why do you bother addressing points to me?

	17-04-2004 15:51									#194
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"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is false, though.

	17-04-2004 20:15									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Derekrage This immigration is nothing like the past, we have 50-100 thousand asylum seeker coming into Britain each year. Very few of these people try to adopt British values, they simpy act like they are still in their own country.

In other words, it's exactly like the past. Who taught you history?

	17-04-2004 20:38									#196
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I'm just wondering if the British that support the BNP's immigration policy can see the hypocrisy this entails. For centuries Great Britain sent immigrants across the world; in the case of my country they took the land of the natives and settled their own people on it. The Irish were ruthlessly discriminated in their own country until the twilight of British rule there. The same happened in other countries across the world.

So let's look at the situation now, where people are immigrating into the UK. The BNP say this isn't acceptable, so why was it OK for the British to do this in the past? Face it: you reap what you sow. You're the ones that wanted a colonial empire; if you hadn't gone around colonizing the rest of the world then believe me, the rest of the world wouldn't be colonizing you right now. Double standards anyone?

I don't agree with excessive immigration - as the history of my country has shown me it isn't always for the best. But it's a bit rich hearing the BNP complaining about it giving Great Britain's past. Granted, there are enough immigrants arriving in the UK that aren't doing enough to adapt, but they're still making a far better effort than the British colonists did in other countries.

	17-04-2004 22:12									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild It's also a very short time frame you're looking at. We've survived past immigration. We'll survive this one. Hell, the concept of Britishness survived and adapted centuries of rule by a French speaking aristocracy, union with Scotland, the loss of Empire, and the initial wave of Indian immigration.

The concept of Britishness did not exist until after the Act of Union, and probably not until proto-industrialisation got rolling.

	17-04-2004 22:35									#198
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quote: In other words, it's exactly like the past. Who taught you history?

When did over 50 000 people immigrate each year to Britain? There was large scale immigration in the past but it was no where as large as this.


our_man - British colonists emmigrating to other countries benefited Britain, asylum seekers coming into to Britain does not benefit us. My stance on immigration is not based on the fact that I find British immigration to other countries moral and immigration into Britain immoral, it's just that imho it does not benefit us.

	18-04-2004 00:15									#199
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The Police declared today that they want official Quotas (spelling?) to fastrack ethnic minorities before white counterparts if the minorities are "underrepresented".
This is mainly in reaction to the McPherson report which labelled the police "institutionally racist" They want to change the law accordingly to legalize positive discrimination.

It is ironic and saddening that the police, in an attempt to get rid of the "institutionally racist" badge of dishonour, are not only practicing racial discrimination themselves, but are also fuelling resentment in white comunites. At the same time this will not neccesarily have a positive impact on the structure or the skill of the police force. Resentment (come on, we know it's inevitable) will appear across the force, and then they will be "institutionally racist"!.

More fuel for the BNP. I wonder who the police are working for? If the government really cared they would realise that this positive discrimination is no good for anybody.

	18-04-2004 00:19									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Derekrage When did over 50 000 people immigrate each year to Britain? There was large scale immigration in the past but it was no where as large as this.

Pro rata- in the 9th-11th century, from Scandinavia. Before that, in the 5th-7th century, from Saxony and Jutland. The British population at that time was around 3-4 million, unlike the 60 million of today. Tens of thousands of immigrants annually- you do the maths.

	18-04-2004 00:28									#201
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people are frightened to admit that they do not actually WANT their country to be full of new arrivals

	18-04-2004 13:55									#202
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"people are frightened to admit that they do not actually WANT their country to be full of new arrivals"

I'm not frightened to admit it. Individually I get on with immigrants fine, it's in groups that they pose social problems and dangers, and increased risk of terrorism.

	18-04-2004 14:17									#203
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the point is that many people make excuses
"we don't need immigration" or "we'll lose jobs"
But there is the genuine fear of the peoples of Britain being overpopulated by different ethnic groups. The lefty media calls this racist.

	18-04-2004 15:20									#204
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quote: Originally posted by josefstalin But there is the genuine fear of the peoples of Britain being overpopulated by different ethnic groups. The lefty media calls this racist.

I call it "Xenophobic", personally. However there's a definite racial bias- your average Little Englander in the average braying yokel lynchmob tends not to care that the person serving their pint has an Australian accent.

	18-04-2004 15:21									#205
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"But there is the genuine fear of the peoples of Britain being overpopulated by different ethnic groups. The lefty media calls this racist."

Two simple facts:

i) Different ethnic groups find it terribly difficult to get on, anywhere in the world.

ii) Welfare states seem to be harmed by the presence of ethnic splits - I'd much rather our welfare state carried on as it is, than see it fall apart as a result of multi-ethnicism. Can find you stuff about this if you haven't already about it.

Racist? ****ing hell, I've got mates from Thailand and all over - one African guy who I can't even understand, and even Welsh It's not that I dislike them for where they come from, just I think every people should have a homeland. Of course if you disagree you can go to the US.

	18-04-2004 15:21									#206
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Everything involving another race is racist according to the left

	18-04-2004 15:22									#207
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"your average Little Englander in the average braying yokel lynchmob tends not to care that the person serving their pint has an Australian accent."

Nice bias there, but that's because Australians tend to be friendly to us, unlike some groups of Asians.

When was the last time you heard of an English neighbourhood where Poms weren't allowed?

	18-04-2004 15:23									#208
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All the usual suspects in this thread:

Total Posts: 204
User Posts
Whaleboy 42
Park Avenue 33
Derekrage 29
Caligastia 18
Lazarus and the Gimp 18
C0ckney 12
josefstalin 9
Sandman 8
Starchild 5
Agathon 5
Evil Knevil 3
Cruddy 3
Azazel 3
Ramo 3
MikeH 3
Whoha 2
Boshko 1
TheStinger 1
Drake Tungsten 1
Sava 1
our_man 1
*End Is Forever* 1
Kucinich 1
Monk 1

	18-04-2004 15:24									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue "your average Little Englander in the average braying yokel lynchmob tends not to care that the person serving their pint has an Australian accent." Nice bias there, but that's because Australians tend to be friendly to us, unlike some groups of Asians. When was the last time you heard of an English neighbourhood where Poms weren't allowed?

Spinky you are without doubt totally and completely beyond redemption.

	18-04-2004 15:25									#210
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Funny how so many of the intolerant actually don't have any real experience of people from other cultures...