13-04-2004 04:32									#1
	Intra-team PBEMs? Increase the size of your Attachments

Anyone interested in (a) intra-team PBEM(s)?

We could try to model some aspect of the ISDG (like only 5 civs on a standard map) or just play for fun.

Edit: We'll probably be doing 4 games with 5 players on a standard map, with the victory condition being one of 3 surviving civs (modelling the C3C ISDG).

Player list (We now have a full list of 20 players):
Kloreep
Togas
Beta
Rhothaerill
SirOsis
OctavianX
Donegeal
Paddy the Scot
jagjef
Aidun
ZargonX
MrWhereItsAt
UnOrthOdOx
Master Zen
Makahlua
GodKing
Krill
conmcb25
Sharpe
Arnelos

Preferences (first come, first serve; in order of posting times):
1. Rhothaerill: Celts, Rome, Byzantines. Either
2. Donegeal: Celts, Maya, Byzantines. 5-player
3. Togas: Iroquois, Greece, Celts. 5-player
4. Octavian X: Netherlands, Sumeria, Rome. Either
5. Paddy the Scot: Celts, Maya, Greece. Either
6. Master Zen: Persia, Byzantines, Sumeria. 5-player
7. Makahlua: Byzantines, Maya, Celts. Either
8. ZargonX: Byzantines, Persia, China. 5-player
9. SirOsis: Random (Brave man )
10. Krill: Carthage, Maya, Egypt. Either
11. Beta: Romans, Zulus, Sumerians. Either
12. Aidun: Netherlands, Carthage, England. Either
13. UnOrthOdOx: Japan, India, Zulu. Either
14. MrWhereItsAt: China, Hittites, Japan. Either
15. jagjef: France, Russia, America. Either
16. conmcb25: Iroquois, ?, ?. 5 or fewer players
17. Sharpe: Iroquois, Byzantines, Celts, Babylon
18. Arnelos: Carthage, China, Iroquois. Either
19. GodKing: Random
20. Kloreep: Mayans, Sumerians, Iroquois. 5-Player

---

And now, the moment I know you've all been waiting for with bated breath...

Here's the sorting. Note that I have people in order purely by timezone; the players in each game should refine it among themselves. Also, if BFM is starting these off, it might be more convenient for him if the order is rotated around so that the first player is in a timezone close to BFM's.

Oh, and UnO and WIA ended up in the same game. I swear I did nothing to influence it; the random number generator just worked it out that way.

GAME 1
MrWhereItsAt: China (08)
Rhothaerill: Celts (12)
UnOrthOdOx: Japan (13)
Master Zen: Persia (14)
ZargonX: Byzantines (15)

GAME 2
Togas: Iroquois (12)
SirOsis: Random (12)
Kloreep: Maya (14)
Octavian X: Netherlands (14)
Beta: Romans (15)

GAME 3
Paddy the Scot: Celts (05)
Arnelos: Carthage (13)
conmcb25: Iroquois (14)
GodKing: Maya (15)
jagjef: France (21)

GAME 4
Makahlua: Byzantines (14)
Sharpe: Iroquois (15)
Donegeal: Celts (20)
Krill: Carthage (20)
Aidun: Netherlands (21)

Last edited by Kloreep on 24-04-2004 at 22:46

	13-04-2004 05:23									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

You've got to be kidding!!!

We had 5 started in the ISDG Forum and out of them, one died and the others routinely take more than a week per turn. I wouldn't count on the people in here/there to play their turn in a timely fashion ever again.

	13-04-2004 05:56									#3
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I figure one in every five PBEMs I get involved in will actually be played out.

So why not get in a few more and maybe happen on another permanent one.

I'm in.

--Togas

	13-04-2004 06:34									#4
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In.

I'm in 16 pbem's and still only get one or two turns an evening coming in.

May I recommend that we keep the player list to 6, standard, or even small map size, and random settings.

And - in keeping with BF's comment - if you do not have reliable e-mail service, or if you cannot commit to usually playing turns the same day as you receive them, (and I have been guilty of the odd infraction myself), please do NOT jump in. Thanks.

	13-04-2004 06:46									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

BF: I know, it's insane. But, like Togas said, you have to get in a lot to find active ones.

I agree with Beta, let's keep this small. That does seem to help; the 5-player Tabemono PBEM I'm in moves decently fast. So, why not try out 5 civs to a standard map? Unless there's an objection, I think we should go with that.

	13-04-2004 06:59									#6
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This is going to be a demo game?

	13-04-2004 07:11									#7
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I'm in.

SirOsis...no not a demo game. It's just people from this team playing PBEMs. Of course, I think almost all of my PBEMs are played by people who are part of this demogame already.

	13-04-2004 07:45									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, most of my PBEMs are with people in here as well.

What to do? Do I really need another PBEM?

I might be up for it if we handle diplomacy in game like the Youth in Asia PBEM. Would play more like SP that way.

	13-04-2004 08:31									#9
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SirOsis: No alliances etc.? :/ I'm not a big fan of PBEM diplomacy as anything more than the necessary way to trade things, but I'd be willing to try it if my objection is voted down.

	13-04-2004 08:50									#10
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You can still have alliances but they can only be done through the diplo screen. No real coordination of attacks that way but you could have ROP, MPP, etc.

If the players in the Youth in Asia PBEM would let us know how it's going that might help out.

	13-04-2004 09:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by SirOsis If the players in the Youth in Asia PBEM would let us know how it's going that might help out.

That would be good. Though, if more than one of the players in it is a member of this team, it might be hard for them to say much about it.

Some issues we need to decide:

Size of map (and whether to split in to multiple games, depending on number of people signed up. This one will need to be discussed later when we know how many people have signed on)

Whether to play under Youth in Asia rules of diplomatically being AIs.

How to pick civs (Random assignment? Choice? How do we decide ties with the latter?)

Whether we want someone to preview our map (make sure no one starts in jungle or tundra, etc. I think this would be a good idea, but we'll need someone to agree to generate a map for us.)

	13-04-2004 09:25									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

my vote:

ideally: 2 games. 5 civs per game. Once 2 civs eliminated, we advance (just like this game).

If we can't do that, then just regular pbem rules.

I'm ambivolent to the YiA diplomacy rules, but it might make things move faster.

We can just pick civs. And we ought to have someone check the map, if possible.

--Togas

	13-04-2004 09:35									#13
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Well, whatever the plan is, count me in. I've been meaning to pick up a few more PBEM games.

	13-04-2004 10:01									#14
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quote: Originally posted by SirOsis You can still have alliances but they can only be done through the diplo screen. No real coordination of attacks that way but you could have ROP, MPP, etc. If the players in the Youth in Asia PBEM would let us know how it's going that might help out.

It would be going fine if Ghengis were around to play his turns.

We've barely gotten out of the starting game with it. It's a great concept though.

	13-04-2004 12:55									#15
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Please count me in.

As for the YiA, well... the speed of that game is VERY slow, so I don't think that the diplomacy concept is what makes a game move fast or slow. Turn order and number of players is what makes the game move fast or slow.

Personally, I have found the YiA diplomacy to be exceedingly frustrating. I much prefer regular PBEM diplo (plus, in YiA, you are not allowed to rename units or cities. It all has to be default).

	13-04-2004 16:19									#16
	Remove this text

I will play

	13-04-2004 16:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill It would be going fine if Ghengis were around to play his turns. We've barely gotten out of the starting game with it. It's a great concept though.

I knew getting Ghengis into a game where he had to keep quiet was going to be a problem.

	13-04-2004 17:54									#18
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If you need some more cannon-fodder please count me in :-)

	13-04-2004 18:24									#19
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Count me in.

Aidun

	13-04-2004 18:47									#20
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You can always throw me on a PBEM list

	14-04-2004 06:27									#21
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We now have 11 people! (Unless SirOsis isn't interested in playing without YiA rules, which don't seem to be getting much support.)

Are some more interested in modeling the C3C Demogame than others? If so, we could probably split up in to a model plus a normal PBEM if we can get some more players.

Edit: Another possibility: Get one more player and have 6 to a game instead of 5 to a game. Close enough IMO

	14-04-2004 06:56									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Or - when we reach 12 players, we double up into 6 mini-teams. That way, there should always be someone to play the turns, and you have someone to talk strategy with. I had proposed this awhile back for some pbem games, but they never got off the ground. Just an idea. If we don't use it here, I think I will still float the idea in the pbem forum.

	14-04-2004 09:42									#23
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That's an interesting idea. Plus, on doubled-up teams, the save would get around much faster.

	14-04-2004 18:29									#24
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I have two Civ3 PBEMs and two SMAC PBEMs - the Civ games are going well, and a third is about to start, one SMAC game is dead and the other hasn't yet started.

Why not? Like Togas said, the more you're in, the more likely you are to finish at least one.

	14-04-2004 20:03									#25
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Oh, oh, I want in.

Especially if I get to play against WIA!

quote: the 5-player Tabemono PBEM I'm in moves decently fast. So, why not try out 5 civs to a standard map?

IIRC I made that Tebemono game a SMALL map.

Yes, that game is progressing VERY nicely. Started on Feb 5th, we are at 1750 BC. Rarely a night when I don't see the save, and seems like 1 night/week we've been getting it 2-3 times lately.

When Zargon is around, that is...

	15-04-2004 01:34									#26
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Beta Or - when we reach 12 players, we double up into 6 mini-teams. That way, there should always be someone to play the turns, and you have someone to talk strategy with. I had proposed this awhile back for some pbem games, but they never got off the ground. Just an idea. If we don't use it here, I think I will still float the idea in the pbem forum.

Interesting idea. I would be up for it, though single players are fine too.

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx quote: the 5-player Tabemono PBEM I'm in moves decently fast. So, why not try out 5 civs to a standard map? IIRC I made that Tebemono game a SMALL map.

Yes, but I was referring to the number of players a turn has to go around, not the size of the map.

Personally, I'm more concerned with how much time it takes a single turn to go around than how many turns it takes to resolve a game. The journey is more important than the destination and all that.

	15-04-2004 02:29									#27
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Ok, how do we choose "teammates"?

I personally would prefer single person civs and just have several games.

Could make it like a turney. 4 people to a game. tiny pangea map with random settings (I would perfer random for even civ choice, but that would be just me). Winner moves on and loosers go to consolution games. Or maybe top two move on. Could even make it a double elimination tourney.

Maybe I'm just getting carried away...

	15-04-2004 02:45									#28
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Actually, I would be interested if there were partners. I know my schedule usually stinks. But with two people, there is usually one of us around. Sorta a mini-demo game. Cool.

-GK

	15-04-2004 03:04									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Ok, how do we choose "teammates"? I personally would prefer single person civs and just have several games. Could make it like a turney. 4 people to a game. tiny pangea map with random settings (I would perfer random for even civ choice, but that would be just me). Winner moves on and loosers go to consolution games. Or maybe top two move on. Could even make it a double elimination tourney. Maybe I'm just getting carried away...

Oh fine, don't want me as a team mate huh?

I personally don't care either way, tourney or mini-teams.

Would be more interesting in teams IMO, but I could see potential for some personality clashes in some cases...

Me: Lets poprush this barracks
Kloreep: No, pop is power
Me: Bah, big me units!
Kloreep: Gib me food! I just switched that barracks build to a granary.
Me: You can't do that! I'm gonna add all your useless workers back to the cities to free up unit support!

errr, that's Team Tabemono...nevermind...

	15-04-2004 03:12									#30
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx Oh fine, don't want me as a team mate huh? I personally don't care either way, tourney or mini-teams. Would be more interesting in teams IMO, but I could see potential for some personality clashes in some cases... Me: Lets poprush this barracks Kloreep: No, pop is power Me: Bah, big me units! Kloreep: Gib me food! I just switched that barracks build to a granary. Me: You can't do that! I'm gonna add all your useless workers back to the cities to free up unit support! errr, that's Team Tabemono...nevermind...

That's what we get for mixing Legos with GoWs

As to the type of game, I'm ambivalent. Both team and tourney would be fine with me.