17-04-2004 01:04									#121
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And the faction:

quote: As a splinter group of the Morgan faction, the Data Angels live in a shadow world of intrigue, conspiracy, and covert operations, working to undermine the established governments of Planet. Although they can grow into a formidable military power if need be, the Angels prefer the use of their highly skilled probe teams. Most of the Angels' advantages lie in the realm of covert operations. They gain a +2 Probe rating from their experience with Probe Teams, adding +2 morale to each probe team built and making their bases and units much more expensive to subvert. Additionally, these Probe Teams can subvert enemy bases and units at a -25% cost. They also receive a Covert Ops Center in each base after the discovery of Pre-sentient Algorithms. Finally, and perhaps most important, the Angels gain any technology known by three other factions that have been infiltrated by the Angels, either through Probe Teams, election to the Planetary Council, or possession of The Empath Guild. The Angels' chief weakness lies in a -1 Police rating, caused by a general anarchistic hacker tendencies. This faction makes Planetfall with knowledge of Information Networks and Planetary Networks, and may not make the "Power" social choice.

	17-04-2004 01:16									#122
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Reading this, it strikes me how much similarities the 'intrigue' stuff has with the political bickering of police states. But instead of solely committed to internal relations, it is rather used upon other factions. I wonder if we should make a bit RP infaction to determine who's the top hacker around

	17-04-2004 13:27									#123
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I really would suggest that no-one lets their enthusiasm run away from what might be feasible for the whole game, unless you really think that such a thing could be supported given normal mebership and activity drop-off.

I've already explained regarding this.

In any event, I think that we should be thinking of ways to prevent drop-off, not assume that it is neccessarily going to happen in the same way in every game.

	17-04-2004 13:28									#124
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Just re-read Roze's profile at Firaxis' website. Thought I'd copy it here for people who is not so familiar with her.

Roze seems more like a "scientist of discontent" than a political anarchist to me...

	17-04-2004 15:15									#125
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Isn't Rose kinda computer-girl-geek so rarely met in real life? Present requirement of declaring vendetta against faction attampting covert action is a bit harsh for me. Covert ops are covert in order to do it without open war. What is actually a reason for that requirement of war declaration in multiplayer games?

	17-04-2004 15:17									#126
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To make sure the probing faction can't take advantage of the bug to get away with it. I think the assumption is that if the probed faction wants to forgive the act, they just sign peace immediately.

	17-04-2004 15:21									#127
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So information of the attempt would be enough maybe. Or it is about integrity issue? So the faction attampting covert ops is the one to declare the war?

Maybe in that case it might be shifted one turn. Faction A tries covert ops. then it informs the other faction. In that next turn faction B decides if it wishes faction A to declare war or not.

	17-04-2004 15:34									#128
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It's an idea... More work for the mod then as well.

	17-04-2004 15:37									#129
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It certainly seems like the Morganites are going for quite a complex internal 'political' (or is that economic, its hard to tell with them... ) structure...

Someone isn't worried about lots of complication at least.

	17-04-2004 15:57									#130
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anarchy Any system of power

	17-04-2004 16:49									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Trithemius I've already explained regarding this. In any event, I think that we should be thinking of ways to prevent drop-off, not assume that it is neccessarily going to happen in the same way in every game.

You have??

And I partly agree. The first is certainly worth it, but there will be drop-off. It is inevitable, really, in a DG that will last quite some months. It always happens, and it makes perfect sense. As people get bored of the game, there will be drop-off in participation. This is the most interesting part, when everyone is throwing their ideas around and looking ahead. Afterwards it is just human nature - familiarity breeds contempt.

	17-04-2004 20:14									#132
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The interesting thing in the team ACDG was the burst of new players over the last couple of months and they have revitalised, certainly, the public forums.

	17-04-2004 20:38									#133
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Just for information how have you Dj's have played the Data Angels before. Free Market, Planned, Green?

As in Maniac's poll they are viewed as a 'weak' faction. When you look in the Tau Ceti tournament archive files

here


You see the the track record of those playing the DA's. Not awfully good.

However the opposition tended to include factions like the Uni, the Hive or the Drones - all strong. and the Gaian's also scored well.

In this game with the other likely teams of the Morgans, Gaian's ,Spartans we do have a better chance.

Last edited by Hercules on 18-04-2004 at 02:51

	17-04-2004 22:42									#134
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Enigma's judgement:

Free of Tass: NO
Desire to win: NO
Free of idiots: Yes
Free of BS policies: Yes
Conducive to judgement: NO

It's not looking good.

	17-04-2004 22:44									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules here

That link doesn't work for me.

	17-04-2004 22:49									#136
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For me neither, as a matter of fact.

	18-04-2004 01:07									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules The interesting thing in the team ACDG was the burst of new players over the last couple of months and they have revitalised, certainly, the public forums.

Why, thank you.

	18-04-2004 02:54									#138
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Sorry about that the link here2 above now works.

	18-04-2004 11:10									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Wrong. I'm morganic.

Blast this misinformation.
Well, I'm Gaian now, so :P to it all.

	19-04-2004 20:17									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules Just for information how have you Dj's have played the Data Angels before. Free Market, Planned, Green? As in Maniac's poll they are viewed as a 'weak' faction. When you look in the Tau Ceti tournament archive files here You see the the track record of those playing the DA's. Not awfully good. However the opposition tended to include factions like the Uni, the Hive or the Drones - all strong. and the Gaian's also scored well. In this game with the other likely teams of the Morgans, Gaian's ,Spartans we do have a better chance.

Since they start with IN and PN, I think the DAs have a fair chance to get to IA very quickly don't they? By switching to Planned they should be able to grab a couple early SPs too if they get IA farily early. Also, would ICS be a good strategy to off set the -1 police rating? The real problem I see of DA is how they pursue victory. Economy victory and Conquring victory doesn't sound very favoring for the DAs ...

	19-04-2004 21:00									#141
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Question: ICS? I may look what I want on the tech map, but can't find a use for those initials.

	19-04-2004 21:14									#142
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Don't know what ICS stands for. But basically the idea is to put your bases close to each other. So there will be lots of smaller bases at first. And later stage people normally go the specialist route since you won't have a lot of squares to work with.

	19-04-2004 21:14									#143
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Infinite City Sprawl. Bases every 2 squares. Very fun.

	19-04-2004 21:28									#144
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Infinite City Sleaze is better. it's more.... sleazy

	19-04-2004 21:46									#145
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A, founding strategies. I'll prefer to give my ideas about that once a private forum is established.

	19-04-2004 21:48									#146
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Do we want to discuss in team power structure also? Looks like some teams have started that. Also, the most important thing that we need to decide now, is the mercantary idea. We need to check with the other teams whether they would feel receptive to such a concept?

	19-04-2004 22:00									#147
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We're an independant faction
The only thing we can do is offer certain services when we see fit and see if they need those. If not, we can always commit our specialities for our own nefarious ends

	19-04-2004 22:09									#148
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In a 4-faction game, I believe it will come down to 2 on 2 some time in the game.

It depends on who you hook up with and how soon you hook up with them.

I'd pick Gaians as your ally, as it's better to be Morgan's enemy (and probe up his tech and cash),
and unless you're about to get early-rushed then Sparta isn't much of a threat.
I can have IoDs protect you, so unless Sparta starts on your island the Gaian//Angel team is pretty solid.

The mercenary bloc of Angels//Spartans will get outbuilt, so go that road if you intend to momentum through a beefed AI then plough straight into Morgan's cash reserves.

Angels//Morgan is an odd match, seeing as you don't really need the cash and Morgan doesn't need the probes, but the victory lies where you realise you're up against Gaians//Spartans.
With that set-up, a Hybrid//Builder outdo a Hybrid//Momentum, so expect an early rush.
Stop that, and you're gold.

As the Gaians, I'd pick the Angels as our long-term ally on strategic merit, but I understand there's some interpersonal stuff that gets in the way.
Emotions are such folly!

	19-04-2004 22:15									#149
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We DataAngels are cool in our head. Interpersonal stuff cannot get in our way.

	19-04-2004 22:18									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova , but I understand there's some interpersonal stuff that gets in the way. Emotions are such folly!

And this is just in the planning phase...

Btw Enigma, voices have come up to not allow joint victory in this DG, thus whatever pactmate(s) is choosen first, in the end it comes down to a huge conquest clash if such a situation is allowed to happen by intriguing or peaceloving faction(s).