31-05-2004 17:04									#421
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare That was clearly England second team, and the baa baas had very good players who probably didn't lack cohesion more than the English. The result doesn't mean much, then.

Actually, it looked like the England third team. Sounds like it was a bunch of very inexperienced players up against a bunch of seasoned pros. But it must have been a sight to see Justin Leonard in a Baa-Baas jersey steamrolling an England player to score a try.

	31-05-2004 18:14									#422
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By the way, I've found a game called Pro Rugby Manager. If you want to play a rugby team manager... It's made by a small French developper, Cyanide. Almost unplayable without the patch that is, fortunately, available on the web. With the patch, it's fun.

	01-06-2004 01:05									#423
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare By the way, I've found a game called Pro Rugby Manager. If you want to play a rugby team manager... It's made by a small French developper, Cyanide. Almost unplayable without the patch that is, fortunately, available on the web. With the patch, it's fun.

I am yet to test the game.

	01-06-2004 01:08									#424
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The NSW Waratahs, desperate for a creative 5/8, are talking about bringing him back. They actually need a creative 5/8 who can kick well, too. From my memory of him, he's not an outstanding kicker.

Though he is not the usual kicker of the USAP he can kick as a replacement. As far as I know he is not planning to leave France the next season.

	01-06-2004 05:44									#425
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare By the way, I've found a game called Pro Rugby Manager. If you want to play a rugby team manager... It's made by a small French developper, Cyanide. Almost unplayable without the patch that is, fortunately, available on the web. With the patch, it's fun.

Is this the game Havak was talking about a few pages back in this thread? I'll go back and check.

EDIT. I think it's the same game Havak has:

On which note I picked up a copy of the PC game Pro Rugby Manager 2004 the other day. Created by a French developer and poorly translated it lists the SH Premier club Tournament as ‘Top 12’. It also have a number of humerous translation errors in game and gets various squad players and positions wrong (it has Andrew Powell as Tigers starting number 8 – and he never played first XV) but for all that it is good fun – with a few more patches it could be very good.

If there's a MP online version, you and Havak can stage your own 2 Nations tournaments!

I'll have to wait for the Mac version.

	01-06-2004 05:49									#426
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin My pronostics: - Heavy defeat against the Wasps - Loss against Biarritz away from home - Loss against the Stade Français in Paris. I think they will not qualify themselves for the final phases of the French Championship and that there wil be no H-Cup next year.

Hey Tamerlin. Look what I found a few pages back. Oh ye of little faith!

	01-06-2004 06:04									#427
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Though he is not the usual kicker of the USAP he can kick as a replacement. As far as I know he is not planning to leave France the next season.

I meant field kicking rather than goal kicking. Which one did you mean?

I doubt NSW will get him back anyway. They really are in a mess at the Waratahs. They were chasing Andrew Johns, the L***** 5/8, and a brilliant player. But he's 30, and he has suffered major injuries in each of the last three seasons. The Waratahs needed financial help from the ARU in order to sign him, and believed they had the ARU's support - Eddie Jones' anyway - but someone at the ARU said no. On the basis of his age and his injury frailty. Now there's poison flowing backwards and forwards between the Waratahs and the ARU, with Eddie Jones caught in the middle. Johns is a brilliant footballer. Carlos Spencer has borrowed much of his bag of tricks from Johns. Five years ago - or even three years ago - he would easily have converted to rugby, but, at 30, and injury-prone, it wouldn't have been a good investment. So the Waratahs muddle on yet again.

	01-06-2004 06:21									#428
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I meant field kicking rather than goal kicking. Which one did you mean?

I meant goal kicking. For what I have seen he is pretty good at field kicking.

quote: My pronostics: - Heavy defeat against the Wasps - Loss against Biarritz away from home - Loss against the Stade Français in Paris. I think they will not qualify themselves for the final phases of the French Championship and that there wil be no H-Cup next year.

I was not far away from the truth, a loss against the Wasps, a tight victory against the Biarritz Olympique away from home (26-25) followed by a lucky home victory against the same BO. The game against the Stade Français has not yet been played but I think that it has now became a point of honor to win in Paris.

	01-06-2004 06:36									#429
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I meant goal kicking. For what I have seen he is pretty good at field kicking.

Mmmm. I remember him as average. He might have improved over there.

quote: I was not far away from the truth

Out of two games played, you were wrong both times! You predicted a pasting by Wasps and it was a narrow loss; you predicted a loss against Biarritz Olympique and you won! When you beat SF, meaning you were wrong all three times, you'll still claim to have been not far from the truth!

	01-06-2004 15:42									#430
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Mmmm. I remember him as average. He might have improved over there.

I think he has improved, though his performances last year were good they seemed to be less regular. The problem with Manu Edmonds is his bad days. From what I have seen and read, these bad days are less frequent. As he is the barometer of the team, Perpignan is currently going from victory to victory.

quote: Out of two games played, you were wrong both times! You predicted a pasting by Wasps and it was a narrow loss; you predicted a loss against Biarritz Olympique and you won! When you beat SF, meaning you were wrong all three times, you'll still claim to have been not far from the truth!

As I guess you would not admit I was not so far away from the truth should the stade lose in Paris... I am not changing my mind.

	01-06-2004 17:23									#431
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I think he has improved, though his performances last year were good they seemed to be less regular. The problem with Manu Edmonds is his bad days. From what I have seen and read, these bad days are less frequent. As he is the barometer of the team, Perpignan is currently going from victory to victory.

That's interesting. Inconsistency was his big problem here. He could play like a champion one week, hardly be sighted the next. That's why he couldn't win a regular spot with the Waratahs and ended up over there. But when he's firing, he's very gifted.

quote: As I guess you would not admit I was not so far away from the truth should the stade lose in Paris... I am not changing my mind.

I'm now thoroughly confused!

I caught, by accident, the last 20 minutes of the All Blacks trial match tonight. I hadn't realised it was being telecast from NZ. The Probables ended up beating the Possibles 29-27, coming back from about 12 points down, largely thanks to their backs - including Rokococo, Howlett, et al. I gather the Possibles had given the Probables a bit of a bath in the first half.

I didn't see Carlos at work for the Probables. By the time I turned on, Mehrtens was on the field. He played very well. Yet again, he surprised by taking the ball up to the line a lot more than he used to. He also seems to have found some speed, breaking the line on a couple of occasions.

Coach Henry, though, would be less than impressed by the set pieces. Both sides' line outs, while I was watching, were ordinary, and I gather they were for most of the match. I also gather the Possibles' pack pushed the Probables' pack around in the first half. Certainly the scrums I saw were a bit of a mess on both sides.

	01-06-2004 19:46									#432
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Coach Henry, though, would be less than impressed by the set pieces. Both sides' line outs, while I was watching, were ordinary, and I gather they were for most of the match. I also gather the Possibles' pack pushed the Probables' pack around in the first half. Certainly the scrums I saw were a bit of a mess on both sides.

Yes, but I'm pleased to hear that Byron Keller outplayed Justin Marshall. Perhaps Henry will give him the chance he deserves.

As for the baa-baas game...I didn't get to see it. Sounds like it was a pretty crappy England side they were up against though.

	01-06-2004 19:55									#433
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Some SH rugby housekeeping has been going on. 1. S12 will become S14, but with an additional team each from Australia and South Africa. There won't be any Pacific Island Combined team or even Japanese team or even Argentinian team. Pity. A Pacific Island Combined team would not only be entertaining, it would help to support rugby in that part of the world.

I agree. I would particularly have liked to see an Argentinian team in there. As for the additional teams being added from Oz and SA I fear this will only add to the NZ dominance of S12(S14). Australia can only manage to put forward one provincial team with any chance of winning, and SA only two. The players will likely be spread out over more teams now...it'll probably help the national teams though.

quote: 2. In Tri-Nations, each team will now play each other three times instead of two. Home and away, with the third match's locating alternating yearly. Oh well, at least the Bledisloe Cup will return to a three-match series instead of the mickey mouse arrangement it is now.

Yes, that's a positive.

When do all these changes take effect?

	01-06-2004 22:38									#434
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quote: Originally posted by Havak That would seem to be the expectation – although this isn’t an England second or even third team – it’s a fourth team. The Barbarians might surprise us yet. Pre-emptive excuses out of the way - enjoy the Ale.

I enjoyed the Ale, but my wife didn't enjoy the resulting bottom-breath. That stuff must be packed with fibre.

	02-06-2004 04:35									#435
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia When do all these changes take effect?

Next season. The current SANZAR -News Ltd broadcast contract expires at the end of this season. The new arrangements will be part of the new contract.

	02-06-2004 05:02									#436
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Who would be an All Blacks skipper? Incumbent Reuben Thorne has not only lost the captaincy but his place in the All Blacks squad for the coming Tests. How many recent AB skippers has that happened to now?

Interesting, too, that three specialist locks have been picked - Chris Jack, Simon Maling and Keith Robinson. No Brad Thorn. To quote Graham Henry: "(Thorn) still wasn't as natural a rugby player as we'd like him to be. He's a great athlete and in the next six to 12 months he's just got to continue to work on that." Say what you like about Henry's coaching, at least he has recognised what some of us have been pointing out for 12 months or more. I will be surprised if Thorn stays around. I read an interview with recently in which he was tossing up about his future. He said playing for the ABs was the pinnacle for him, and his aim, but he didn't rule out returning to L*****.

	02-06-2004 13:09									#437
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Special note for Caligastia – the fibre comes from all the hops and is very good for the digestion – as your significant other seemed to note.

Clearly Ravagon thought Hugh Vyvyan was from the 19th choice side then?

Finbar nailed it - Men against boys really. Nearly 800 caps facing 43 (30 of them to the hooker Regan). The youngsters had chances but lacked that finishing edge. Finny had a storming first half though gave away several penalties for coming in from the side. He looked bemused at the Taffy ref for those and never re-appeared in the second half. Skinstad replaced him and promptly got sin binned for killing ball.

Just one note – the most capped player in world rugby is JASON Leonard. Was his brother Justin playing too?

quote: Almost unplayable without the patch that is, fortunately, available on the web. With the patch, it's fun.

Yes it’s the same game.

I would recommend anyone not French to spend time modding the database or download one. The French sides are all ridiculously good to begin with and all internationals not either French (or Irish for some reason) get a setting of ‘cantankerous’ and find it hard to stay on the field. Well balanced it is not.

There is also a silly cheat – edit your stadium size and your income increases accordingly…never used it myself.

I see that yet again the important scores have been missed out so:

Tigers 48 – Sale Sharks 27

Tigers qualify for the H cup. Bizarre game. Totally in control up front we even shunted Sale off of their own defensive 5M scrum to score a pushover. Two bits of mercurial magic from Robinson kept them in touch (how England will miss him down south). Cruising at 41-20 up with about 10 mins to go we have a ruck just outside our 22. Martin clearly has the balled trapped in the ruck by his foot and then Steve Hanley comes round offside, picks the ball up and sprints to the tryline. The inimitable Spreadbury lets it stand. Probably the worst reffing decision of the year so far.

Bath 6 – Wasps 10

What a dire game! One breakway try in the second half by the stingers who are now champions. Bath, who ‘won’ the nine month league stage, finish the season with absolutely nothing. It has re-opened the debate here about play offs. I think if we plan to keep them we need to split our top flight into two pools and handle it that way so that our boys are playing less rugby before Dally’s muppets steal the trophy from them. Zinzan got one thing right – some teams can coast now without putting maximum effort in and still know they get a shot at the title. Wasps second in the table two year running and champions both times. Hmm, I’m getting to like them less and less all the time.

Close season movements have started – our young number 8 Adam Balding has defected to Gloucester on a two year deal. He had great promise but never developed quite the way he should have – I wish him well never the less.

VD has signed a new two year deal (and scored a great try last weekend too) – as have Harry Ellis and Andy Goode. I wait with interest to see who comes in before August.

	02-06-2004 18:15									#438
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Finny had a storming first half though gave away several penalties for coming in from the side. He looked bemused at the Taffy ref for those

I love his bemused "Me? What did I do wrong?" look. He has perfected it over the years.

quote: Just one note – the most capped player in world rugby is JASON Leonard. Was his brother Justin playing too?

Who cares? He steamrolled an England prop for a try!

quote: Tigers 48 – Sale Sharks 27

Oh yes. Noticed that. Forgot to post it. And I made a mental note. And tied a piece of string around my finger.

quote: Bath 6 – Wasps 10 What a dire game! One breakway try in the second half by the stingers who are now champions. Bath, who ‘won’ the nine month league stage, finish the season with absolutely nothing.

Gloucester last year, indeed.

quote: VD has signed a new two year deal (and scored a great try last weekend too)

So that's his try as required by the two-year contract?

	02-06-2004 19:43									#439
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quote: He has perfected it over the years.

And he still came in second to Mark Andrews on the day.

Nathan Grey had a solid game too. Taine was very quiet – but Oliver had a cracking game. Burke looked like he had his mind on the Worcester deal.

Oh and some guy named Magne made an appearance. Looks a decent enough prospect at flanker – might even make something of himself.

quote: Who cares? He steamrolled an England prop for a try!

His wife probably cares!

The young props who started were Worseley and Morris – Quins and Saints – so what did you expect? I think the replacement was a Glaws lad – it says it all really.

Glad you saw the Tigers result. I cannot tell you how delighted I am that we built form and momentum just in time for…the close season.

Glaws last year won the League by a bigger margin than Bath did this year. Both should feel aggrieved. Damn them Wasps!

I hate to tell you this but with a consistent three months without injury VD has been looking quite sharp again.

	03-06-2004 03:18									#440
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Oh and some guy named Magne made an appearance. Looks a decent enough prospect at flanker – might even make something of himself.

When he remembers that he is on a field to play Rugby he is one of the best flankers in the world. The problem is that he forgets why he is there nine games out of ten.

	03-06-2004 05:02									#441
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Glad you saw the Tigers result. I cannot tell you how delighted I am that we built form and momentum just in time for…the close season.

At least they're in form for playing with themselves over summer.

quote: Glaws last year won the League by a bigger margin than Bath did this year. Both should feel aggrieved. Damn them Wasps!

Money-making exercise.

quote: I hate to tell you this but with a consistent three months without injury VD has been looking quite sharp again.

It's the hair.

Matt Williams finally got Scotland over the line. Against a NSW Country XV, 48-10. Next up is a match against what amounts to a Waratahs 2nd (in some areas 3rd) XV.

	03-06-2004 05:21									#442
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Some SH rugby housekeeping has been going on. 1. S12 will become S14, but with an additional team each from Australia and South Africa. There won't be any Pacific Island Combined team or even Japanese team or even Argentinian team. Pity. A Pacific Island Combined team would not only be entertaining, it would help to support rugby in that part of the world.

Now that's a real let down - i agree completely about the Islanders - this almost amounts to a slap in the face. They're struggling to get some matches in and they're overlooked before even being considered.
SANZAR don't even know where the new Australian team is going to come from after having already announced their intent to bring it into being.
Perth and Melbourne have been highlighted as possible contenders, and, as much as I hate to say it, I hope it goes to the Vics. I just don't see the support over here to warrant it, sadly.

	03-06-2004 07:13									#443
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Now that's a real let down - i agree completely about the Islanders - this almost amounts to a slap in the face. They're struggling to get some matches in and they're overlooked before even being considered.

I don't know what the justification was. If they were after entertaining rugby, which, for better or worse, is the basis of S12, the Islanders would have fitted the bill perfectly. The Argies were always going to be a problem with travel time between here and there.

quote: SANZAR don't even know where the new Australian team is going to come from after having already announced their intent to bring it into being. Perth and Melbourne have been highlighted as possible contenders, and, as much as I hate to say it, I hope it goes to the Vics. I just don't see the support over here to warrant it, sadly.

I think the Perth push is predicated on the expat Bok and Pom population over there. The Melbourne push is predicated on the population's passion for sport in any form and the massive crowds that attended the Tests played down there. Tests, obviously, are special events, but I think Melbourne would probably support a S12 team more than they're supporting their L***** team. Week in, week out L***** is a lot less attractive proposition than half a dozen S12 matches.

	03-06-2004 15:57									#444
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Scotland beat the Cockatoos? Not a huge thing to have on a CV is it?

	03-06-2004 16:42									#445
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Indeed. The game wasn't telecast, but apparently they - Scotland - were pretty ordinary in the process. The Country XV is literally that. Keen amateurs. They had Scott Staniforth (soon to be ex-Waratahs) and Scott Fava (ditto Brumbies) on the bench but that was the extent of their quality. Scotland could only lead by 10 at half time and scored a couple of late tries that inflated their score. How I wish someone like Ireland were out here instead.

	03-06-2004 17:22									#446
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Well you do have a lantern jaw, boy wonder and Billy Whizz deficient England arriving soon.

I still don't know why Ireland are only touring South Africa.

	03-06-2004 17:29									#447
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well you do have a lantern jaw, boy wonder and Billy Whizz deficient England arriving soon.

Yeah, it'll be like playing Scotland all over again.

quote: I still don't know why Ireland are only touring South Africa.

I expect they think they're being sensible.

	03-06-2004 17:41									#448
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Just like Scotland - but with forwards and backs actually capable of taking the game to you.

If Ireland think they are being sensible a few bruises (and the odd concussion) will soon disabuse that notion.

	03-06-2004 17:58									#449
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Just like Scotland - but with forwards and backs actually capable of taking the game to you.

Care to hazard some guesses at scores?

Pity you didn't see any of the ABs' trial match. You'd have been giggling. G. Henry certainly wasn't at the end of it.

quote: If Ireland think they are being sensible a few bruises (and the odd concussion) will soon disabuse that notion.

It will be interesting to see whether the Boks can take some confidence from their improved S12 effort into the matches. The Stormers, in particular, played some quality rugby.

	03-06-2004 18:36									#450
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I saw Umaga's considered reaction and that can be paraphrased as "not good enough".

I remain hugely concerned about Dally leading the boys and Clive's selection policies. My honest expectation is to see them lose all three by 7-10. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a walloping in one. Just not enough Tigers anymore you see.

Having said all that we will be 40 points closer to any of you than Scotland could be. And if Lantern jaw was still active we would beat you all by the same amount of course.

It is a huge test for the Boks - can I remind you that the Irish were the first side to beat the reigning world champions this year. The Boks bets hope is that Ireland think they are playing France - they never turn up mentally for that fixture. Then again the rock hard surfaces might help too?

*edit* I should also say that if we do lose all three I fully expect Clive to come out and accuse both NZ and Australia of cheating.