27-05-2004 12:50									#391
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Hey Tamerlin. You might like to edit this post. It only draws attention to the, um, embarrassment.

There can be no embarassment in supporting a great historical team like the Stade Toulousain or the Leicester's Tigers.

About you criticism of Toulouse's defence, read again Havak's post after the game. Though the Wasps mainly won because of two defensive fumbles from the Toulousains there was some great defensive and forward play.

	27-05-2004 14:07									#392
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Heh Caligastia enjoy that trip – and I hope you will be drinking Ale not Lager?

Of course the real reason for the trip is you want to see that England D side taken apart by the Baa-baas?

The game should be even sweeter for you given Wales destroyed the barbarians 42-0 last night!

quote: Except, perhaps, if they didn't check out the contract situation.

It’s tricky isn’t it? If a prospective employee says “I am available for work” how many firms do background checks on that?

quote: Why are the ARU at fault for enforcing a legal contract?

They wouldn’t be. The thing that confuses me is that three days ago Eddie was talking in terms of not being able to do anything if the contract with Newcastle was legal – and then suddenly the ARU is chirping of pre-existing contracts. It leaves a huge suspicion that some is snow-blowing and it wouldn’t suprise me at all if S12 contracts have been ‘re-interpreted’ to suit the current agenda?

quote: You've obviously dealt with players out of contract.

And just as vitally players who really wanted to join us. Those 2.5 seasons with Josh were great – not least because they showed that our young flankers like Moody and Skinner could live with that kind of quality.

quote: The ARU is perfectly within its legal rights. Why have contracts otherwise?

See above – why did the ARU not shout from the rooftops the second the story broke that he had signed for Falcons – “Excuse me young man but you are contracted to us!”

quote: Must be the money they had earmarked for Larkham?

They are desperate to sign someone of quality. I dislike Burke as a person – but he isn’t useless on a rugger field.

quote: It took the ref and Joe Roff - the kicker - twenty seconds to work out the joke.

Joking in a final? That’s an unusual skipper.

quote: I've often wondered how much of the "promotional work" is part of their contracts and how much is extra income.

I’d like to see greater transparency in such things all round.

quote: The genuine lure of Wallaby (or England) jerseys will always overcome the pots of gold, I suspect.

As it should be. I can pity the Boks here – Westhuyzen is 25 and move dto us because RSA rugger couldn’t pay him anywhere near enough. At least the Boks now pick overseas players so the national team does not suffer so much.

I’m not familiar with Wilson’s work outside the Beach Boys – guess I’ll need to search it out.

	27-05-2004 16:23									#393
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin There can be no embarassment in supporting a great historical team like the Stade Toulousain or the Leicester's Tigers.

Vous vous entendez comme larons en foire!

quote: About you criticism of Toulouse's defence, read again Havak's post after the game. Though the Wasps mainly won because of two defensive fumbles from the Toulousains there was some great defensive and forward play.

Mmmm. Great defensive play. But not enough of it when it counts!

	27-05-2004 16:40									#394
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It’s tricky isn’t it? If a prospective employee says “I am available for work” how many firms do background checks on that?

I'd've thought any sensible firm would.

quote: They wouldn’t be. The thing that confuses me is that three days ago Eddie was talking in terms of not being able to do anything if the contract with Newcastle was legal – and then suddenly the ARU is chirping of pre-existing contracts. It leaves a huge suspicion that some is snow-blowing and it wouldn’t suprise me at all if S12 contracts have been ‘re-interpreted’ to suit the current agenda?

Seems to me that the situation changed once Samo chose the Wallabies over Fiji. He was dithering. Once he made the decision, the contract was invoked.

quote: See above – why did the ARU not shout from the rooftops the second the story broke that he had signed for Falcons – “Excuse me young man but you are contracted to us!”

See above.

quote: They are desperate to sign someone of quality. I dislike Burke as a person – but he isn’t useless on a rugger field.

He'll do well for them if he goes. Can play full back or centre, still a top goal kicker.

quote: Joking in a final? That’s an unusual skipper.

That's Owen Finegan! An unusual bloke!

quote: I’m not familiar with Wilson’s work outside the Beach Boys – guess I’ll need to search it out.

There's next to nothing outside his work for the Beach Boys. He effectively stopped writing and recording in the early 70s. Having suffered massive nervous breakdowns, locking himself in his bedroom for a couple of years, suffering at the hands of a parasitic psychotherapist who was exploiting him for his fame amd money, the tour was his return to performing after nearly 30 years. He performed "Pet Sounds", the Beach Boys album frequently voted best rock'n'roll album of all time. He heard the Beatles "Rubber Soul" album and wanted to better it. He wrote and produced "Pet Sounds". The Beatles heard "Pet Sounds" and wanted to better it. They came up with "Sergeant Pepper". A couple of the more fascinating years in pop history.

The DVD is well worth looking at even for his band alone. He hand-picked some of America's best young musos. They're astonishing.

You should have a look at the DVD too, Tamerlin! You'll see a modern musical genius - albeit mentally scarred - at work!

	27-05-2004 17:09									#395
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quote: I'd've thought any sensible firm would.

They generally call references from existing employers when interviewing if that counts?

quote: Seems to me that the situation changed once Samo chose the Wallabies over Fiji

Yes – good point.

As to whether a Fijian should be allowed to ‘choose’ wattle – shall we re-open that old chestnut?

Whilst Burke will do a job for Worcester he is joining a team expected to be the next Rotherham – it will be tough mentally.

Brian Wilson – having just discovered Pet Sounds includes ‘Sloop John B’ I may well track the DVD down.

It is starting to annoy me that Wasps are drawing so much praise for such a short period of success - but even so Zinzan gives us all some conversation fodder in his latest BBC piece - not least claiming the buzzbuzz boys would beat ACT - and praising the other code for helping English Union rugger *cough*.

find it here

	27-05-2004 17:53									#396
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quote: Originally posted by Havak They generally call references from existing employers when interviewing if that counts?

You'd take seriously anything the Brumbies say?

quote: As to whether a Fijian should be allowed to ‘choose’ wattle – shall we re-open that old chestnut?

In your current situation - Boks, Australians, probably even the occasional Latvian lurking somewhere in the squad - feel free.

quote: Whilst Burke will do a job for Worcester he is joining a team expected to be the next Rotherham – it will be tough mentally.

Still, it will give you a chance to vent your spleen for a season.

quote: Brian Wilson – having just discovered Pet Sounds includes ‘Sloop John B’ I may well track the DVD down.

They do a stunning "Sloop John B" on the DVD. The bandmembers are all multi-instrumental, and I mean seriously multi-instrumental, and all sing like angels. My one consolation was that they were as ugly as sin! Until Mrs finbar announced that the percussionist was cute.

quote: It is starting to annoy me that Wasps are drawing so much praise for such a short period of success -

It astonished me that you were heaping so much praise on them for so long. I knew the bubble had to burst eventually!

quote: but even so Zinzan gives us all some conversation fodder in his latest BBC piece - not least claiming the buzzbuzz boys would beat ACT - and praising the other code for helping English Union rugger *cough*.

And here, the L***** people claim to have had massive influence on how rugby is played here. Still, who takes anything Zinny says seriously these days? After making such a d*ck of himself before and during the World Cup? At least Fitzy has had the sense to disappear completely from the radar.

	27-05-2004 19:11									#397
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quote: You'd take seriously anything the Brumbies say?

Hmm now you put it like that…

quote: In your current situation - Boks, Australians, probably even the occasional Latvian lurking somewhere in the squad - feel free.

Two of them Boks were babe in arms when they arrived here. Catty and the Aussie Lipman are the only real border hoppers. Bit different to Rathbone and even Vickerman. Has Samo lived there all his life – or since he signed for ACT?

quote: Still, it will give you a chance to vent your spleen for a season.

And will welcome him enthusiastically to Welford Road – and wave him on his way with the same gusto.

quote: Until Mrs finbar announced that the percussionist was cute.

quote: It astonished me that you were heaping so much praise on them for so long. I knew the bubble had to burst eventually!

Articles from the BBC such as “why are Wasps so good” tipped my hand. It’s 12 months since they won their first trophy in six years. We doubled them in pretty much our worst season ever and inflicted a record defeat at home on them to exactly the same squad that turned over Tamerlins mob.

Oh and added to that now they have beaten Toulouse why should I build them up any more?

They are a good side – but a world away from matching Tigers in the record books.

quote: At least Fitzy has had the sense to disappear completely from the radar.

I have to say that the Fitzy punditry during the six nations set new standards for me – I think I mentioned the “what England need to do is get up the other end and score” remark?

	27-05-2004 21:33									#398
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Oy. For your sake I hope you don't catch it. *ahem* http://www.planetrugby.com/Teams/Wa...ory_36395.shtml Well, that's what you get when you sub a Kiwi for a Frenchman.

Hmmm...I guess I won't bother trying to get tickets to see it live then...

	27-05-2004 21:36									#399
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Heh Caligastia enjoy that trip – and I hope you will be drinking Ale not Lager?

Of course!

quote: Of course the real reason for the trip is you want to see that England D side taken apart by the Baa-baas? The game should be even sweeter for you given Wales destroyed the barbarians 42-0 last night!

We'll see. A 42-0 loss to Wales must surely make their prospects of winning dubious at best.

	28-05-2004 09:39									#400
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Some SH rugby housekeeping has been going on.

1. S12 will become S14, but with an additional team each from Australia and South Africa. There won't be any Pacific Island Combined team or even Japanese team or even Argentinian team. Pity. A Pacific Island Combined team would not only be entertaining, it would help to support rugby in that part of the world.

2. In Tri-Nations, each team will now play each other three times instead of two. Home and away, with the third match's locating alternating yearly. Oh well, at least the Bledisloe Cup will return to a three-match series instead of the mickey mouse arrangement it is now.

	28-05-2004 12:43									#401
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quote: We'll see. A 42-0 loss to Wales must surely make their prospects of winning dubious at best.

That would seem to be the expectation – although this isn’t an England second or even third team – it’s a fourth team. The Barbarians might surprise us yet.

Pre-emptive excuses out of the way - enjoy the Ale.

An S14 with extra Aussie and Bok sides? More whipping boys? Totally pointless! Argentinians or Islanders were the only reason to expand. Those new Bok and Aussie franchises (Perth based?) will be filled with players that neither the established franchises nor Europe want. Bad idea IMO.

Expanding the tri-nations. Hmm. I do welcome the three test Bledisloe but I think we are seeing signs than NH Rugby commercialism is now affecting the SH rather than the other way around. The money men are looking for ways to make your lads play more rugby to keep the tills ticking? How long before your lads are also clocking up 40 first class games a season too? Keep an eye on what that does to your national game (it ravages the squad with injuries preventing stability in selection).

Play offs tomorrow.

Tigers v Sale for the last European Cup spot. Surely even Finbar cannot support the Mancunians?

Bath-Wasps for the title. But Bath are champions anyway – they won an 8 month league to be such. Sod the silly play off.

	28-05-2004 13:19									#402
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Posting before 9am! I like the man's priorities!

quote: Originally posted by Havak An S14 with extra Aussie and Bok sides? More whipping boys? Totally pointless! Argentinians or Islanders were the only reason to expand. Those new Bok and Aussie franchises (Perth based?) will be filled with players that neither the established franchises nor Europe want. Bad idea IMO.

I have to agree. The problem with the Argies is travel time, and it's a real problem, unfortunately. But the Pacific Islanders should definitely have been in. The Japanese weren't a bad idea either.

quote: Expanding the tri-nations. Hmm. I do welcome the three test Bledisloe but I think we are seeing signs than NH Rugby commercialism is now affecting the SH rather than the other way around. The money men are looking for ways to make your lads play more rugby to keep the tills ticking? How long before your lads are also clocking up 40 first class games a season too? Keep an eye on what that does to your national game (it ravages the squad with injuries preventing stability in selection).

Yes, there was mention with the announcement about catering to broadcasters, and broadcasters want more Tests. We already have strict rules about the number of games per player per season. There will be a huge sh*tfight from the players and their union if the number is threatened. The expanded S12 and revised Tri-Nations will add four more matches to what exists. I think most players are usually safely under the limit. We'll see.

quote: Tigers v Sale for the last European Cup spot. Surely even Finbar cannot support the Mancunians?

Is Bondy still there? If so, go the Mancs!

	28-05-2004 13:48									#403
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Yep Bondy is still there. Had a quiet season this time around. Sale are a club with problems - no less than five first team players have signed for Sarries all at the same time.

Anyway Tigers are bringing in Pat Howard - he is Aussie so surely you can divide your loyalties?

Winning tomorrow is essential for the clubs finances - and for my travel plans. It makes the difference between visiting places like Paris and Toulouse or small backwaters like Agen or... Italy.

	28-05-2004 15:50									#404
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Yep Bondy is still there. Had a quiet season this time around. Sale are a club with problems - no less than five first team players have signed for Sarries all at the same time. Anyway Tigers are bringing in Pat Howard - he is Aussie so surely you can divide your loyalties?

Yes, but he's not there yet. Go the Mancs!

quote: Winning tomorrow is essential for the clubs finances - and for my travel plans. It makes the difference between visiting places like Paris and Toulouse or small backwaters like Agen or... Italy.

	28-05-2004 16:27									#405
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It was a fair trade - the support of a Manx side more that justified the little joke about Italy.

	28-05-2004 16:41									#406
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Where's la grenouille furieuse when I need him! He can hurl s around with an abandon I can't!

	28-05-2004 16:47									#407
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Where's la grenouille furieuse when I need him! He can hurl s around with an abandon I can't!

After a buzy week with too much work I am too lazy to catch up with the thread today... and I don't see the point of hurling around when Havak is right.



You are right: deux larrons en foire...

	28-05-2004 16:53									#408
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I forgot to mention a very important news (at least for me ).

The Stade Toulousain has won its game away from home against the Biarritz Olympique thirsday.

Biarritz Olympique 25 - Stade Toulousain 26

I was expecting a loss four days after the H-Cup final only and some hard times to come... I feel a bit more confident now though there is a real test sunday as the Stade Toulousain is facing Biarritz again (return games of the play offs).

	28-05-2004 18:05									#409
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That is good news. The Heineken Cup needs all the big clubs to qualify - and there is none bigger than Toulouse.

Besides - where would we be next year if neither Tigers nor Toulouse are in the Heineken?

*edit* Heh Finbar Bond is still on Sale's books - but has been omitted from the match 22 on Saturday. Go on - give us your support?

I didn't know anything about this before stumbling across it - but it is funny stuff and worth reading.

Naughty Boks select Zimbabwean - impartial NZ adjudicator throws the book

Last edited by Havak on 28-05-2004 at 20:05

	28-05-2004 23:37									#410
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quote: About you criticism of Toulouse's defence, read again Havak's post after the game. Though the Wasps mainly won because of two defensive fumbles from the Toulousains there was some great defensive and forward play

Saying that Toulouse had a good defense when they made three errors in the game would be ok if the Wasps hadn't scored one try each time. Toulouse really shot themselves in the foot by having a bad line defense and missing too many kicks. And playing Poitrenaud too? Quite frustrating. The Wasps didn't miss the few opportunities they had, which made the difference.

By the way, I'm going to Toulouse on June 11 to play against people working at Airbus down there. I think I had a planning of the day in Toulouse sent by our coach and president, but I wonder where I may have lost it.

	29-05-2004 07:49									#411
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin After a buzy week with too much work

About time you got off your cul!

quote: You are right: deux larrons en foire...

Deux branleurs!

	29-05-2004 07:52									#412
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin I forgot to mention a very important news (at least for me ). The Stade Toulousain has won its game away from home against the Biarritz Olympique thirsday. Biarritz Olympique 25 - Stade Toulousain 26 I was expecting a loss four days after the H-Cup final only and some hard times to come... I feel a bit more confident now

After a one point win? Oh well, nécessité fait loi.

	29-05-2004 07:56									#413
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Besides - where would we be next year if neither Tigers nor Toulouse are in the Heineken?

*clasps hands in prayer*

Dear Lord, give me the strength to resist the urge to give this the thrashing it deserves.

quote: *edit* Heh Finbar Bond is still on Sale's books - but has been omitted from the match 22 on Saturday. Go on - give us your support?

Yes, I noticed he wasn't in the team. Sorry. He could've been. That's enough for me.

	29-05-2004 08:02									#414
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Saying that Toulouse had a good defense when they made three errors in the game would be ok if the Wasps hadn't scored one try each time.

And from someone who has played hooker!

quote: By the way, I'm going to Toulouse on June 11 to play against people working at Airbus down there. I think I had a planning of the day in Toulouse sent by our coach and president, but I wonder where I may have lost it.

Mmmm. The Toulouse Airbus XV playing at home. An assessment of Tamerlin's attendance record indicates a 33% chance he'll be there.

	29-05-2004 08:06									#415
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I didn't know anything about this before stumbling across it - but it is funny stuff and worth reading. Naughty Boks select Zimbabwean - impartial NZ adjudicator throws the book

Gee, the siege mentality is alive and well on the veldts. As is the errant apostrophe.

	31-05-2004 04:10									#416
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Stade Toulousain 25 - Biarritz Olympique 18

Three games in eight days for the Stade Toulousain and two victories in a row against the Biarritz Olympique. The players were obviously tired today and they have still managed to win thanks to the bit of luck that fled from them against the London Wasps. The qualification for the semi finals is now well on its way, moreover the Stade Français lost its game against the Club Athlétique de Brive at Brive which means that the Stade Toulousain is now first of its pool along with the Parisians. Ending the first of its pool would allow the winner to avoid playing against the Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan who won at home against the Association Sportive de Béziers after an impressive game. The foreign legion seems to have finally acclimatized itself as Dan Luger, Manu Edmonds, Scott Robertson and Perry Freshwater played very well. Manu Edmonds is the barometer of the team, when he plays well the whole team is playing well.

	31-05-2004 05:44									#417
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Oh dear.

http://www.planetrugby.com/News/story_36460.shtml

Em, sorry Cali. Hope you didn't miss it.

We can only wonder what might happen if England today took on the might of Wales. The score against might go into 3 figures.
And lets hear no more of those excuses about it being the 20-somethingth best English side please?

quote: Naughty Boks select Zimbabwean - impartial NZ adjudicator throws the book

[Hmmm.
I found an article eventually but the link itself took me to a google translation site?
A hint that my English is deteriorating perhaps? ]

I imagine there was more to it than simply fielding a foreign-born player - eligibility rules violated etc?
There are rules set up to allow for such and if they're followed there shouldn't have been a problem.

That said though it does look bad for a Kiwi to be judging such a case and the penalty sounds rather overly harsh ...

	31-05-2004 12:04									#418
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Stade Toulousain 25 - Biarritz Olympique 18

Good effort.

quote: Manu Edmonds is the barometer of the team, when he plays well the whole team is playing well.

The NSW Waratahs, desperate for a creative 5/8, are talking about bringing him back. They actually need a creative 5/8 who can kick well, too. From my memory of him, he's not an outstanding kicker.

	31-05-2004 12:08									#419
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Oh dear. http://www.planetrugby.com/News/story_36460.shtml

I'll be interested in Havak's report. I never know what to make of Baa-baa matches.

	31-05-2004 13:13									#420
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That was clearly England second team, and the baa baas had very good players who probably didn't lack cohesion more than the English. The result doesn't mean much, then.