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Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:21 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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Everyone:

It's breaking news on the wires. Apparently the announcement came mere hours after the new Socialist government was inaugurated.

The only question remains is this: Will Spain keep its contiginent in Afghanistan, or will the Socialist government pull them out as well, per demands from groups linked to al-Qaida?

Gatekeeper

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:22
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Eh? I thought they were going to do that July 1st.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:25 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I doubt they will withdraw from Afghanistan. That was not a campaign promise. Although if they recieve public pressure to do so, they might.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:26 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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I thought they were doing that on June 30th? They lied to the international community, and I hope they will receive diplomatic punishment for that like having any business contracts they have in Afghanistan or Iraq voided. ****ing liars. They will lose the next election.

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
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May 2001
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:28
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3637523.stm

quote:
Mr Zapatero said he had ordered the defence minister to "do what is necessary for the Spanish troops stationed in Iraq return home in the shortest time possible".

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:33
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Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:35 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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Here's what the AP has so far:

quote:
Spanish Leader Pulls Troops From Iraq

By DANIEL WOOLLS
Associated Press Writer

MADRID, Spain — Spain's prime minister ordered Spanish troops pulled out of Iraq as soon as possible Sunday, fulfilling a campaign pledge and trying to calm his uneasy nation after bombings that killed 191 people in Madrid.

Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, who swept to victory in elections three days after the bombings, said he acted after deciding the United Nations was unprepared to take over the occupation of Iraq — his condition for keeping Spanish troops in the country.

Militants who claimed responsibility for the March 11 Madrid bombings said they were in retaliation for Spain's role in Iraq.

In the announcement, surprising for its timing, Zapatero said he had ordered his defense minister to "do what is necessary for the Spanish troops stationed in Iraq to return home in the shortest time possible."

Zapatero spoke just hours after the new Socialist government was sworn in. His party won March 14 general elections and had pledged to bring Spain's 1,300 troops home unless the United Nations took political and military control.

"With the information we have, and which we have gathered over the past few weeks, it is not foreseeable that the United Nations will adopt a resolution" that satisfies Spain's terms, Zapatero said.

Public remarks by key officials and contacts that Defense Minister Jose Bono made over the past month show no signs that the political and military situation will change to satisfy Spain's demands by the June 30 deadline, Zapatero said.

He noted that most Spaniards opposed the decision by his predecessor, Jose Maria Aznar, to support the war, and said withdrawing the troops had been a longstanding pledge.

"More than anything, this decision reflects my desire to keep the promise I made to the Spanish people more than a year ago," he said.

"Driven by the deepest democratic convictions, the government does not want to, cannot and will not act against or behind the backs of the will of the Spanish people," he said.

He said the Spanish government would support efforts by the United Nations or European Union to prepare Iraq for elections and the handover of sovereignty, expected June 30.

Foreign Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said he would meet Wednesday in Washington with Secretary of State Colin Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice to offer non-military cooperation in Iraq.

Zapatero won parliamentary backing as prime minister on Friday.

With 164 seats in the 350-seat Congress of Deputies, his Socialist party fell 12 seats short of a majority in the election. But small, mainly regional parties holding a total of 19 seats gave Zapatero the necessary cushion to become prime minister.


So now the United Nations can't handle Iraq?

Gatekeeper

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:35
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This baffles me. Why won't they wait until June 30? Have they given up the idea/hope that the UN will take command of the troops? Zapatero has said earlier that the troops could stay longer if that was to happen.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:36 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Liars. He's just a ****ing liar. I hope he receives substantial diplomatic punishment for this.

quote:
Have they given up the idea/hope that the UN will take command of the troops? Zapatero has said earlier that the troops could stay longer if that was to happen.


He wouldn't of kept the troops there even if the UN took over.

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
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May 2001
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:41
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Well he said he would. So I tend to agree that he's a liar.

on the other hand, this seems to be the will of the Spanish people...

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:43 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Gangerolf
Well he said he would. So I tend to agree that he's a liar.

on the other hand, this seems to be the will of the Spanish people...


It doesn't matter if it is the will of anybody.

He made a promise to keep them there until June 30th, and with UN endorsement/backing he would keep them there for longer.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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Hey, Zapatero, don't let the terrorists shoot you in the ass on the way out. Oops. That was so unstatesman-like of me wasn't it?

Gatekeeper

germanos is offline germanos
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Apr 2002
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:50
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Can't you guys read?

He has given his secretary of Defense the task to draw up plans to withdraw them as soon as possible/feasable.

This will mean they will stay for quite a while longer, most probably around the planned handover around july 1st.


Zapatero will have kept his election promise, and he will have at the same time shown to his (Spains) allies he takes a responsible stance towards the situation his predecessors has put Spanish troops in.


This'news' is not news at all: it is exactly what had to be expected

Wezil is offline Wezil
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Nov 1999
time: 02:05
  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
I thought they were doing that on June 30th? They lied to the international community, and I hope they will receive diplomatic punishment for that like having any business contracts they have in Afghanistan or Iraq voided. ****ing liars. They will lose the next election.


lol, you are so spinal. Keep up the good work.

BeBro is offline BeBro
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:54 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper

The only question remains is this: Will Spain keep its contiginent in Afghanistan, or will the Socialist government pull them out as well, per demands from groups linked to al-Qaida?

Gatekeeper


There was something about a "trade" to hear, I mean I read somewhere they even want to send some more to Afghanistan to balance out the reduction in Iraq. Not sure how reliable that info is, thoughj.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:56 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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OK. How long would it take to organize withdrawal plans for a couple hundred soldiers? It usually takes the United States a few weeks when shipping "x" number of soldiers home. I would imagine Spain would be the same? Perhaps a bit less, since their country isn't across an ocean?

At any rate, my good Germanos, I'm sure Spain's contribution to Iraq will be gone before July 1, 2004. Then again, I'm not a logistics expert, either.

Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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  Old Post 18-04-2004 23:57 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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BeBro:

No, you heard right. I'm not sure of the status of that deal right now, though. Last I heard, Spain had only 150 soldiers or so in Afghanistan, and if the deal goes through, it'd be boosted to 250 soldiers (or something along those lines).

Gatekeeper

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:01 Visit Dis's homepage!
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oh yeah.

good riddance. we don't need 'em anyways.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
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Aug 2005
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  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:17 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo


It doesn't matter if it is the will of anybody.


General Ludd is offline General Ludd
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Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:21
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Spain for not being a pawn to Osama and Bush.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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time: 21:35
  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:23 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Yep, I think they are supposed to send more troops to Afghanistan.


Though I thought if the UN took over Iraq (which it will) that he was going to leave them there???

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:24 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by General Ludd
Spain for not being a pawn to Osama and Bush.


That's bullshit.

Spain is being the pawn for Al Qaeda.

And by not listening to Bush, is surrendering to Al Qaeda. **** Zapatero, and if there is a hell I hope he rots in it one day.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:31
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Giancarlo, I don't agree with your definition of surrendering. Doing the exact opposite what terrorists wants is not always the best or only way to fight terrorism. I'm not talking about the situation here, just in general.

However, I hope Spain can keep the troopers at least to the day talked about earlier and maybe bring more troops to A-stan instead of completely pulling out.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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the pullout method is ineffective and haphazard at best

sooner or later you'll slip and she'll get pregnant

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:35
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quote:
Spain for not being a pawn to Osama and Bush.
They wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan if that were the case.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:49 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Giancarlo, I don't agree with your definition of surrendering. Doing the exact opposite what terrorists wants is not always the best or only way to fight terrorism. I'm not talking about the situation here, just in general.

However, I hope Spain can keep the troopers at least to the day talked about earlier and maybe bring more troops to A-stan instead of completely pulling out.


By pulling out troops and surrendering to demands made by Al Qaeda, I do see it as exactly that. This is a surrender to Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda wanted Spanish troops out of Iraq, and they got hat. They better stick to their June 30th word, and maybe even keep them more if they get their stupid UN endorsement.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 19-04-2004 00:58
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Giancarlo, I meant in more general way.... this one is more trickier. I don't think Spain has surrendered to AQ, but I think they shouldn't have pulled out their troops because it only makes it worse in the long term.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Giancarlo, I meant in more general way.... this one is more trickier. I don't think Spain has surrendered to AQ, but I think they shouldn't have pulled out their troops because it only makes it worse in the long term.


I'm not speaking in general terms. I'm speaking in specifics.

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 19-04-2004 01:07
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This is worse than Stalingrad. I have read that the British military will pull out if the resistance gets stronger.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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  Old Post 19-04-2004 01:10
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You're worse than The Onion when it comes to reliable info though, TD.

 
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