19-04-2004 03:36									#91
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Al Qaeda and others are just trying to use this to their own advantage

quote: and the chickenhawks keep biting.

Oh the irony. Am I the only one to see it?

	19-04-2004 03:44									#92
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Spain leaving Iraq is only to al Qaeda's advantage if al Qaeda is allowed to frame the terms of debate.

The spanish people have said all along that Iraq is not part of the "War on Terror" and that spanish troops should not be a part of it. Let them leave and redeploy in Afganistan, then it's no big deal.

Make a big stink out of it because al Qaeda says it counts as a victory for them, and you hand al Qaeda the victory. But, like Fez taking a big ol' bite out of a Sava-troll, that's exactly what the armchair generals are doing.

	19-04-2004 03:51									#93
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quote: Originally posted by joncha al Qaeda says it counts as a victory for them

And thus a recruiting tool is born. In the eyes of the uneducated, religiously controlled arab 14 year old, AQ drove the infidels from Iraq. Is stationing 1300 troops in a quiet part of the country to much to ask to keep this message from being sent?

	19-04-2004 03:52									#94
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO And thus a recruiting tool is born. In the eyes of the uneducated, religiously controlled arab 14 year old, AQ drove the infidels from Iraq. Is stationing 1300 troops in a quiet part of the country to much to ask to keep this message from being sent?

Well done

	19-04-2004 04:02									#95
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Spain leaving Iraq is only to al Qaeda's advantage if al Qaeda is allowed to frame the terms of debate. The spanish people have said all along that Iraq is not part of the "War on Terror" and that spanish troops should not be a part of it. Let them leave and redeploy in Afganistan, then it's no big deal. Make a big stink out of it because al Qaeda says it counts as a victory for them, and you hand al Qaeda the victory. But, like Fez taking a big ol' bite out of a Sava-troll, that's exactly what the armchair generals are doing.

I think I'm going to fall in love with you... you are so funny.

	19-04-2004 04:21									#96
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO And thus a recruiting tool is born. In the eyes of the uneducated, religiously controlled arab 14 year old, AQ drove the infidels from Iraq. Is stationing 1300 troops in a quiet part of the country to much to ask to keep this message from being sent?

And if Spanish troops stay, a recrutiung tool is born. Stationing 1300 foreign troops as part of a foreing occupation just tells those same 14 year olds that the infidels want to destroy Islam and kill Arabs.

Anything that happens in Iraq is a huge AQ recruitment pool-the whole war is one. A minor act like what the Spaniards are doing will make a miniscule difference to the Arab street in the long run.

	19-04-2004 04:42									#97
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good news

	19-04-2004 04:44									#98
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redraw that thumbs up col or give me 50

	19-04-2004 04:47									#99
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Happy now?

I say Fez is worth 1300 men - send him.

	19-04-2004 04:54									#100
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How did you manage to edit that without the little "last edited" message appearing, Horse? Is that a diety power I haven't heard about yet?

	19-04-2004 04:55									#101
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I think if you get it within 5 minutes or so it doesn't put the message in.

check out this edit
check out this second edit 16:58

	19-04-2004 04:57									#102
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I thought it had to do with whether or not someone posted after you.

	19-04-2004 04:59									#103
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Figures. Ted makes a relevent point on Page 3 and it gets buried in spam.

	19-04-2004 05:02									#104
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Are you talking about how Bush and Blair are going to turn Iraq over to the UN on June 30th?

Which is what Spain wanted but they are still pulling out anyway?

	19-04-2004 05:02									#105
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Yes.

	19-04-2004 05:05									#106
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Really? Will US/UK troops be under UN command from June 30th?

	19-04-2004 05:07									#107
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He posted a link. Look at it.

	19-04-2004 05:08									#108
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quote: Originally posted by joncha Really? Will US/UK troops be under UN command from June 30th?

No.

US is still responsible for security. US will retain command.

UN is to take over the government, and the US appointed government will dissolved.

It's the best of both worlds.

A UN military command is the worst possible thing that could happen.

Though, I can see a joint command happening where if other countries wanted to contribute more troops, they would be assigned under a UN banner to quieter areas of the country.

	19-04-2004 05:08									#109
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...60&pagenumber=1

	19-04-2004 05:11									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker No. US is still responsible for security. US will retain command. UN is to take over the government, and the US appointed government will dissolved. It's the best of both worlds. A UN military command is the worst possible thing that could happen. Though, I can see a joint command happening where if other countries wanted to contribute more troops, they would be assigned under a UN banner to quieter areas of the country.

UN command of Spanish troops, however, is what the Socialists called for by the June 30th deadline. So a UN administrated civilian administration (whether or not it's a good thing) does not address Zapatero's conditions.

	19-04-2004 05:13									#111
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Well good on him for setting up a situation that would never happen.

I would be afraid for any troops placed under a UN command.

	19-04-2004 05:17									#112
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Regardless, it is not the case that Spain is pulling out "despite getting what they wanted." They are pulling out because they didn't get what they wanted.

	19-04-2004 05:25									#113
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What they wanted was to pull out troops, regardless of what happened.

But to set conditions of turning over command to the UN is the equivalent of setting up a strawman in an Apolyton Off Topic thread.

Not to mention, for the US to keep command was a recommendation of the UN surveyor.

	19-04-2004 05:32									#114
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And if Spanish troops stay, a recrutiung tool is born. Stationing 1300 foreign troops as part of a foreing occupation just tells those same 14 year olds that the infidels want to destroy Islam and kill Arabs.

Good Lord! Does your capacity to totally be wrong have any bounds?

When a democracy is established in Iraq and the truth begins to reach these kids, then and only then, will terrorism begin to subside. You seem to totally ignore the fact that the anti-American line is taught to them as a method of control by power hungry religious "clergy".

Perhaps, when democracy is finally established, they will even be willing to show you the truth.

	19-04-2004 05:36									#115
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And if Spanish troops stay, a recrutiung tool is born. Stationing 1300 foreign troops as part of a foreing occupation just tells those same 14 year olds that the infidels want to destroy Islam and kill Arabs. Anything that happens in Iraq is a huge AQ recruitment pool-the whole war is one. A minor act like what the Spaniards are doing will make a miniscule difference to the Arab street in the long run.

See if Spanish troops go, that will give a recruiting tool. And a bigger one then if they stay. The terrorist are saying "HEY we got the Spanish to go, if we attack more and more we can get the US to go." And then you have thousands of more terrorists. That's why it would be stupid to leave.

	19-04-2004 05:40									#116
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Oh stop whining - if you want something done it's always best to do it yourself.

	19-04-2004 05:52									#117
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Somehow don't think putting the UN in command of the government is going to be enough to placate the insurgents. I predict that they will simply start attacking foreigners of every ilk. Did I say start? I should have said continue. They will continue to attack foreigners of every ilk. Jeez, they're even attacking Iranians. I think these guys are bent on self-destruction.

	19-04-2004 05:54									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Somehow don't think putting the UN in command of the government is going to be enough to placate the insurgents. I predict that they will simply start attacking foreigners of every ilk. Did I say start? I should have said continue. They will continue to attack foreigners of every ilk. Jeez, they're even attacking Iranians. I think these guys are bent on self-destruction.

They shot an Iranian diplomat in the head. A high ranking diplomat too...

	19-04-2004 05:58									#119
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Not necessarily - if the christian fundamentalist forces were replaced with a UN force made up predominantly of troops from muslim countries and commanded by say a Pakistani or Egyptian that could go a long way to easing tensions.

	19-04-2004 05:59									#120
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Unusual neotiating tactics that's for sure. I wonder if al-Sadr traces his family back to the Sultans of Mesopotamia some 800 years ago? Maybe he needs to review the history of the Mongol empire.