27-04-2004 20:44									#1
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Sorry if this is old:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- An expedition is being planned for this summer to the upper reaches of Turkey's Mount Ararat where organizers hope to prove an object nestled amid the snow and ice is Noah's Ark.

LINK

Would the discovery of Noah's arc do anything for the validity of the Bible? Would it make you believe that Jesus was the son of god? What implications, if any, would such a discovery have on your personal beliefs?

	27-04-2004 20:47									#2
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*ahem*, Japher...

"Ark" - A large vessel
"Arc" - A curve or segment of a circle

	27-04-2004 20:47									#3
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Unless it says 'Noah woz 'ere' on it somewhere, it's just a boat (at best)

	27-04-2004 20:48									#4
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And if this expedition wants to waste its time and money, so be it. What will be quite tragic is if someone dies during the expedition, as Mt. Ararat is a very dangerous climb.

	27-04-2004 20:49									#5
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It would have nothing, per se, to validate Christ.
Old Testament vs. New.


The nay-sayers would say a tornado threw some fishing boat on the mountain anyway.

	27-04-2004 20:50									#6
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quote: "Ark" - A large vessel "Arc" - A curve or segment of a circle

Damn!@!!

(See Theben's Sig.)

	27-04-2004 20:51									#7
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It's ok, Japher. A search on Noah's Arc or Ark turns up hits.
Don't let Boris piss in your Post Toasties.

	27-04-2004 20:53									#8
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I want to know who exactly are going on the expedition. If they're taking reputable scientists to study any possible findings, I'll be very interested to see what is said. If it's all religious people who already have their mind made up, I'll take anything they report with heavy grains of salt. We've already had Creationist liars like Kent Hovind trying to scam people with claims of finding hard Biblical evidence.

	27-04-2004 20:55									#9
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand The nay-sayers would say a tornado threw some fishing boat on the mountain anyway.

Yep. Non-believing skeptics will always try to twist the truth when it comes to something like this. And then their lies get out into the media. And the media has such a powerful influence on some that non-believers end up taking such lies as "fact."

Pretty pathetic, eh Slowwhand?

	27-04-2004 20:59									#10
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I don't think it's hard for even atheists to give credit to the bible for having at least some historical accounts right. I saw an interesting program a while back postulating that the "great flood" was caused by a land bridge across the Bosporus giving way, leading to the creation of the Black Sea. If there's truth to that, certainly it would seem to those in the area that the entire world had flooded. From that point, how much of the Noah story is legend built around someone with a) enough foresight to see that such a thing might happen (similar to the Y2K bunker dwellers, but validated) or b) enough luck to have a boat available when it did start to happen, I don't know.

That is all to say it might validate the bible account historically, but not theologically.

	27-04-2004 21:01									#11
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quote: That is all to say it might validate the bible account historically, but not theologically.

Yeah, but I think Catholics already confuse history with the theology and uses one to write the other. If they find the ark it would be strange, a bunch of Jews and bible thumpers saying I told you sold, and will add an increase boost to the validity of their texts, historical or theological.

	27-04-2004 21:02									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Yep. Non-believing skeptics will always try to twist the truth when it comes to something like this. And then their lies get out into the media. And the media has such a powerful influence on some that non-believers end up taking such lies as "fact."

"Non-believing skeptics" would be redundant.

And just what "lies" are out in the media from non-believers? We caught you propagating the lies of Hovind on this very message board years ago, so for you to accuse others of lying is pretty rich.

	27-04-2004 21:03									#13
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And what of Moses leading his people across the parted sea?
I've read accounts that the parting happens on ocassion due to geological conditions.
If that's so, does it discredit the event? I say no.
The fact that it happened at the time Moses and gang needed it to happen still constitutes a miracle.

	27-04-2004 21:04									#14
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He didn't lead them across a parted ocean, he led them across the Reed Sea (supposedly). Which isn't nearly so momentous a task to cross as the Red Sea or an ocean is.

	27-04-2004 21:07									#15
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I changed it to Sea, because I knew some jackass would make a big damned deal over it.
Of course, it was no worse than Reed Sea.


Boris is right on 1 count.
Moses didn't use an arc welder in construction.

	27-04-2004 21:07									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov "Non-believing skeptics" would be redundant.

Even the media itself admits that they get their information from them.

	27-04-2004 21:12									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Yeah, but I think Catholics already confuse history with the theology and uses one to write the other. If they find the ark it would be strange, a bunch of Jews and bible thumpers saying I told you sold, and will add an increase boost to the validity of their texts, historical or theological.

IMO, it won't add much validity that isn't already there. Then again, I view the Old Testament as Hebrew history, which was orally passed down (cue jokes ) for generations, intertwined with the same type of mythology every other culture at the time created to explain the world around them. Without the benefit of millenia of technology, philosophy and science, sometimes "God did it" was not just the most satisfying, but the only possible answer to be given. Throw in a few fortuitous happenings that can be pointed to as God's will, and boom, you've got a full fledged religion.

	27-04-2004 21:17									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Yep. Non-believing skeptics will always try to twist the truth when it comes to something like this. And then their lies get out into the media. And the media has such a powerful influence on some that non-believers end up taking such lies as "fact." Pretty pathetic, eh Slowwhand?

Wow, talk about living in a bizarro "reality."

Whatever floats you boat, man.



-Arrian

	27-04-2004 21:21									#19
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I fail to see what a huge boat on the top of mount Ararat has to do with God. Did the discovery of ancient Troy make people believe in Zeus, Hera, Apollon and the rest of the ancient gods? I do not think so...

	27-04-2004 21:21									#20
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I have to admit this evidence does indeed look promising:

http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html

	27-04-2004 21:21									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Even the media itself admits that they get their information from them.

Aaaannnd WOOOOOOOOOOSH! over your head it goes.

	27-04-2004 21:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy I have to admit this evidence does indeed look promising:

What evidence? They're dark blobs! Gee, it's a mountain, could it be...rock? Priceless!

	27-04-2004 21:25									#23
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I bet he thinks there is a human face on Mars too.

-Arrian

	27-04-2004 21:26									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy I have to admit this evidence does indeed look

OMFG!!!

IT'S STUFF EMERGING FROM SNOW!!! STUFF, MAN!!! I TELL YUH!!!

HALLELUIAH!! HOSANNA!!!

	27-04-2004 21:28									#25
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It looks like there's a giant turtle on Mount Ararat.

Could it be....Mothra perhaps?

	27-04-2004 21:28									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Aaaannnd WOOOOOOOOOOSH! over your head it goes.

Your own words go to show how much you've allowed the media to control your beliefs.

Don't you know that the news media doesn't always tell it's viewers the whole truth?

	27-04-2004 21:29									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov "Non-believing skeptics" would be redundant.

Doesn't the double negative imply rabid believers.

	27-04-2004 21:30									#28
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Stop and think for a moment what the word "media" covers. TV, Radio, Newpapers, Magazines, etc.

Now back up 1000 yrs. What is left? A few books, cared for by a precious few people who can actually read & write, and what the local preacher tells you in his sermon.

The current news media has many faults, but I'll take it over that any day of the week (and twice on Sundays ).

-Arrian

	27-04-2004 21:32									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Your own words go to show how much you've allowed the media to control your beliefs. Don't you know that the news media doesn't always tell it's viewers the whole truth?

You still missed the point. *sigh*

Regardless, I don't rely on the media for the whole story, and in matters like this I rely on the only reliable source - scientific investigation.

But where are those examples I asked for? I can give you oodles of examples of believers blatantly lying to support their beliefs. I want to know which non-believers are manipulating the media and in what way. Do tell, so we know exactly where you're coming from.

	27-04-2004 21:33									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What evidence? They're dark blobs! Gee, it's a mountain, could it be...rock? Priceless!

Ah ha! This is what I predicted your response would be! It just so natural for an atheist to give such simple explanations for anything.

Notice that these anomalies are not the same color as the natural rocks in the photo. The anomalies are brown. The natural rocks are all dark blue or black.