28-04-2004 02:20									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin So, could someone make a list of all animals that Noah needed to include in the ark and how much food was needed for some time at sea and thereafter for the animals to feed of before the vegetation is restored and compare those figures with the size of the ark and see if the exact figures and the story itself should be taken literary.

I figure you'd need something at least the size of a Nimitz class aircraft carrier, if not a supertanker, and more than that one door to shovel out all the ****.

	28-04-2004 02:24									#92
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God's just ****ing with our heads, same as when he put dinosaur fossils in the ground to test our faith. ($1 to Bill Hicks)

	28-04-2004 02:25									#93
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Since God promised Noah that Noah wouldn't need that boat again and it presumably stunk to high heaven , why would God bother keeping it around? Moreover, why would He conceal it for thousands of years, and make the glacier look and act in every way like a normal glacier, but not actually be one in that specific spot? If God wanted to remind people of the flood, or if there was some significance to the ark itself, then He could have put it a bit lower on the mountain and preserved it for all to see throughout the ages. It's a bit tough to claim God gave special treatment to something that would seem to be God's discarded junk.

Don't know. But I'm not God and neither are you, so I couldn't tell you. I can't even tell you if He really wants to reveal the Ark to man someday, but something in my heart tells me He does.

Why don't you try asking Jesus about that if you meet Him someday? Perhaps I will, too.

	28-04-2004 02:30									#94
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Fell free to keep us updated on the trips finding, no matter the results

	28-04-2004 02:36									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy In order to apply science to this you must first understand how the Ark was built and what it was made of: http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/...n=NIV&x=12&y=12 NIV (New International Version) Genesis 6 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. 16 Make a roof for it and finish the ark to within 18 inches of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks.

The problems are that cypress is nice for native woods, but not ideal for shipbuilding. You also can't pitch every surface - you have to join them first, then pitch the remaining surfaces, which means if you have any structural damage, you expose bare wood and provide an entry point for the elements to start rotting out the structure from inside. Wooden ships are also very dynamic, living things - the nature of the stresses on them changes constantly, and the behavior of the wood over time is different depending where you are - a section of hull or decking over a knee or rib behaves a bit differently from a section a foot away, even when you're talking about the same piece of wood off the same tree. Ships just didn't last for thousands of years in water and out (stresses are entirely different) - getting one to last long enough to make it around the world was a big accomplishment, and naval architecture of large wooden ships is one of the most complex fields of engineering there is. Especially in past centuries when it was learned by accumulated experience and apprenticeship.

A ship designed to carry cargo on the water isn't going to be very good for resisting rocks and sheets of icefor a few thousand years.

	28-04-2004 02:39									#96
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Wooden ships of great antiquity have been found in good states of preservation when sunk and deposited in fairly ideal conditions.

He said petrified, not preserved. Two, ideal conditions is the key. The oldest boat ever found is 1500 years old, it is in the lower anoxic layer of the Black Sea. They found it at the same time they found an old village 500 feet underwater.

	28-04-2004 03:20									#97
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Fell free to keep us updated on the trips finding, no matter the results

Will do. But it won't be for a few more months. The climb is scheduled to take place this year between July 15th and August 15th.

It might even be in the news while the climb is taking place, but we'll see.

	28-04-2004 10:34									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi God's just ****ing with our heads, same as when he put dinosaur fossils in the ground to test our faith. ($1 to Bill Hicks)

Bill Hicks' skit was awesome

	28-04-2004 10:53									#99
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quote: The oldest boat ever found is 1500 years old

I believe the oldest is around 4500 years old, some of the pharaohs had their royal ships entombed when they died.

Mr Nice Guy, where did the water go? I mean, if the Flood resulted in the Ark settling 20,000 feet up on a mountain, where did the 6 miles of water needed to cover the highest mountains go?

	28-04-2004 10:59									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." --Matthew 19:26

Q: How do we know there's a God?
A: The bible says so.
Q: How do we know the bible is true?
A: Because it's the Word of God.

Good logic there, Mr Nice Guy

	28-04-2004 11:10									#101
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Btw Mr Nice Guy, the Siberian mammoths were caught in localised floods when ice dams gave way in the same manner as Lake Bonneville in Utah, Lake Missoula in Montana/Idaho, and Lake Agazzi northwest of the Great Lakes. The first left behind the Great Salt Lake, the second helped create the Scablands in Eastern Washington, and the third flooded the St Lawrence riverway shutting down the Atlantic conveyor belt of warmer equatorial saltwater heading north toward Europe resulting in a "mini-ice age" for ~1,000 years after the main ice advance ended. But this all happened about 11 to 12 thousand years ago which happens to coincide with the Tlingit's Flood "myth". The mammoths had food in their stomachs typical of more moderate climates yet they were essentially fast frozen, i.e., buried by very cold water.

	28-04-2004 15:49									#102
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quote: Going back to just a simple answer, eh? See what I mean. You have no sense of curiosity or investigation into religious artifacts because you're afraid of the truth being revealed to you about them, and you see what you want to see because of it. Here's a newsflash, babyface!: If you let fear get to you, it will be your worst enemy. In which case you already have.

Simple answer eh ... I woulda thought saying everything that exists is due to God is the simple answer.

And you fear there being no God. In fact you fear it so much you can't question your own beliefs at all. However you are totally correct about "If you let fear get to you, it will be your worst enemy."

quote: So, could someone make a list of all animals that Noah needed to include in the ark and how much food was needed for some time at sea and thereafter for the animals to feed of before the vegetation is restored and compare those figures with the size of the ark and see if the exact figures and the story itself should be taken l

Ummm just to point out that two of every animal in the world (thats pretty much what it says right? two of every animal) and if we go with the world being only the close surroundings of where Noah lives and not the entire world (considering that to Noah the whole world woulda been his area (kinda like Europe before they meet the Americas and so on) then two of every known animal mightn't be that much really kinda thing. Did anyone follow that?

	28-04-2004 18:20									#103
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Speaking of fear, you know what scares ME?

That there are people out there who are as deluded and absolutely unwilling to examine their delusion as Mr. Nice Guy. And these people vote.

-Arrian

	28-04-2004 18:26									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I believe the oldest is around 4500 years old, some of the pharaohs had their royal ships entombed when they died.

Er, oldest shipwreck.

	28-04-2004 18:27									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Speaking of fear, you know what scares ME? That there are people out there who are as deluded and absolutely unwilling to examine their delusion as Mr. Nice Guy. And these people vote. -Arrian

And fly planes into buildings.

	28-04-2004 18:29									#106
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Indeed. But those guys, well, they believed in the wrong book. Mr. Nice Guy's book is the right one, you see. Uh huh.

-Arrian

	28-04-2004 18:52									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Flip McWho Ummm just to point out that two of every animal in the world (thats pretty much what it says right? two of every animal) and if we go with the world being only the close surroundings of where Noah lives and not the entire world (considering that to Noah the whole world woulda been his area (kinda like Europe before they meet the Americas and so on) then two of every known animal mightn't be that much really kinda thing. Did anyone follow that?

Ducks? Ducks wouldn't have to go on the Ark. Same as Herons and Pelicans.

A nickel for anyone who knows where I stole that joke.

	28-04-2004 19:06									#108
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Let's pose the alternative question.

If the expedition demonstrates conclusiveley that there is no sign whatsoever of any boat ever having been anywhere near the mountain what will the effect be on folk who like to take the (obviously) allegorical as literal?

	28-04-2004 19:09									#109
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What will be the atheist line if/when the ark is recovered?
What will you be saying to distract from the in unison crapping of the pants?

	28-04-2004 19:23									#110
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Reminds me of all those expeditions to locate the site of the garden of Eden.

Anyone try The English Passengers?

Jolly good read, I thought.

	28-04-2004 19:27									#111
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand What will be the atheist line if/when the ark is recovered?

That's really not a worry.

	28-04-2004 19:32									#112
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand What will be the atheist line if/when the ark is recovered?

I'd give thanks to the gods for sparing Utnapishtim, I s'pose.

	28-04-2004 20:53									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Mr Nice Guy, where did the water go? I mean, if the Flood resulted in the Ark settling 20,000 feet up on a mountain, where did the 6 miles of water needed to cover the highest mountains go?

That was one of three questions that got me kicked out of a Baptist Sunday school when I was four.

	28-04-2004 20:58									#114
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If you can make that much water appear you can make it dissappear too. Its just logical isnt it?

	28-04-2004 21:16									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Flip McWho Ummm just to point out that two of every animal in the world (thats pretty much what it says right? two of every animal) and if we go with the world being only the close surroundings of where Noah lives and not the entire world (considering that to Noah the whole world woulda been his area (kinda like Europe before they meet the Americas and so on) then two of every known animal mightn't be that much really kinda thing. Did anyone follow that?

Sure, two of every domesticated animal in the area would be logical to take aboard, too, and could easily, through generations of being passed down orally, get distorted into "two of every animal in the world."

	28-04-2004 21:17									#116
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What about the insects? Two of every kind would make a considerable pile.

	28-04-2004 22:18									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil Ducks? Ducks wouldn't have to go on the Ark. Same as Herons and Pelicans. A nickel for anyone who knows where I stole that joke.

Eddie Izzard, so give me my nickel!

	28-04-2004 22:26									#118
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH If you can make that much water appear you can make it dissappear too. Its just logical isnt it?

That's true. But you can also make all the wicked people disappear without going through all the trouble. Maybe you can even cause them to be good. Imagine that.

	28-04-2004 22:30									#119
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Where did the water go? I wish I had the time and/or inclination to research for all you lazy asses, but it went underground.
As a matter of fact, that very question was addressed on ABC news program this morning.
That will give you a lead at least.

	28-04-2004 22:31									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Maybe you can even cause them to be good. Imagine that.

But that would be to mess with the peoples free will, we can't do that could we, that would be wrong. Instead, God gives people free will and kills them with extreme and brutal force when they do not behave as God wants them to behave. Big difference, much more moral.