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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:35
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quote:
Regardless, I don't rely on the media for the whole story, and in matters like this I rely on the only reliable source - scientific investigation.
But where are those examples I asked for? |
You have to admit that much of early "scientific investigation" spawned from religious interpretations and attempts to obtain validity... In return, or once such validity could not be obtained, there were other sides of the coins who took the basis to soley prove religion through science, and I am sure they came up with some crazy ideas; called theories. Now, whether media hypes it or not?
String theory? Space exploration?
IMO, media loves to hype any type of speculation whether it is secular or not. Every time the sun taints a window, or a tree grows a knot, and it looks like the virgin Mary. As well as, everytime a rover finds something that might be sign that there may have been a chance that life existed on Mars.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:35
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So sorry, but I think you'll be rather disappointed. This type of find isn't unique, so there's quite a bit of documented understanding of the processes involved in things getting buried in glaciers and then getting spit out later. Aircraft flying into mountains back in the bad ol' days before modern onboard navigation systems are the most common example, with plenty of USAF speciments in Alaska, and some civil aviation specimines in the Andes mountains.
FYI, I'm not an atheist, so your usual duck-and-run fundy arguments about evil atheists and media lies won't really cut it.
There's a bunch of things we know about glaciers, so unless you want to posit (without any Biblical proof or any reason God would do so) that this particular chunk of glacier on Mt. Ararat behaves differently from every other one in the world, you're going to have to live with a few unpleasant details for the Noah's Ark is here theory.
1) Glaciers move, and they do it at different rates depending on where you are, as a function of proximity to underlying terrain, terrain friction, ice depth, sun and wind exposure, deposition rates of new snow or rain, and subsurface water.
2) This variation in movement is more pronounced on a small scale.
3) The result of this is that large things in glaciers such as airplanes tend to get spectacularly torn up and distributed very unevenly (this is distinct from the debris field caused by initial impact)
Noah's ark was obviously wood, and depending on how literally you want to take the date, and how much of a Bishop Usher fan you are, somewhere around 4,000 to 5,000 years ago. Nothing in the Bible says anything about any special wood, time for drying, construction techniques, etc., so the best info we have is early Phoenician and Greek, etc. shipbuilding techniques and the known properties of indigenous trees. Whatever you get for serviceable boats, you don't get an icebreaker. We also have a lot of info (courtesy of some lost whalers and early Arctic and Antarctic expeditions, what happens to wooden ships that get caught in moving ice sheets. The ice tries to move in the direction it wants to, encounters the hull, and tries to go around. Which causes a lot of compression and shear stress.
What you've got in those photos is something (or somethings) at one hell of an angle, in or over a little ravine or draw in the mountain face (color and shape of ice tell you that, plus the visible terrain), which means there is more rapid ice movement on the top than near the mountain face, and more rapid ice movement over the ravine or draw than on the elevated portions of the mountain face. That means 4,000 years of wood being sheared, torn, and squished all to hell and back, and no way that any large scale structure would be even close to intact. Also, the upper portion would move more slowly than the lower portion, (due to terrain friction), so you'd expect the Ark (if it was there) remains to be spread in the direction of ice flow for over a mile, maybe more, depending on movement rates and microclimate over the intervening thousands of years.
In short, whatever that is is extremely unlikely to be any integrated structure of any grat age, especially a wood ship. Even if Noah's Ark was up there, the glacier would have mostly reduced it to a spread out mishmash of wood fibers, mulch, and the occasional odd sized something that looked almost like driftwood. Knees, pieces of keel, etc. could be identified with some luck, but only if you were able to completely remove the ice from that area, and if they'd managed to fall someplace where they were exceptionally sheltered from substantial shearing.
The best place to recover any such items wouldn't be near the top of the mountain, it woud be near the base of the glacier much further down the mountain, especially if that ravine or draw ran for any great distance. Glacial ice can flow pretty fast (quite a few feet per year) in the right conditions, so nothing that landed up high in the ice thousands of years ago is still going to be up that high now.
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27-04-2004 21:33
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