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J Bytheway is offline J Bytheway
Emperor
England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 09-05-2004 23:41 Visit J Bytheway's homepage!
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Section 2, round 2 Support Apolyton

code:
W Ar Damage HP Left Play Win Draw KO 1 10 10 0 63 1 0 0 0 Jamski-San 10 10 0 63 Vs 10 10 0 63 3 9 11 16 86 1 1 0 0 Theben 9 11 0 86 9 11 0 86 1 10 10 45 77 1 1 0 0 Jamski-San 10 10 0 72 Vs 10 10 0 67 7 15 5 18 45 1 0 0 0 Spacius Maximus 15 5 5 45 15 5 5 45 2 16 4 37 84 1 1 0 0 Hercules Romani 16 4 37 68 Vs 16 4 0 52 4 20 0 16 63 1 0 0 0 The Doctor 20 0 16 26 20 0 16 26 2 16 4 26 74 1 1 0 1 Hercules Romani 16 4 26 38 Vs 16 4 0 38 8 20 0 26 26 1 0 0 0 Smasher 20 0 36 0 20 0 0 0 3 9 11 0 99 1 1 0 0 Theben 9 11 0 99 Vs 9 11 0 99 5 7 13 0 84 1 0 0 0 The Ram 7 13 0 84 7 13 0 84 4 20 0 0 67 1 1 0 0 The Doctor 20 0 0 67 Vs 20 0 30 56 6 9 11 0 62 1 0 0 0 Chaunk 9 11 0 62 9 11 11 32 5 7 13 0 66 1 0 0 0 The Ram 7 13 0 66 Vs 7 13 0 66 7 15 5 0 75 1 1 0 0 Spacius Maximus 15 5 0 75 15 5 0 75 6 9 11 11 76 1 1 0 0 Chaunk 9 11 11 76 Vs 9 11 11 76 8 20 0 0 56 1 0 0 0 Smasher 20 0 0 45 20 0 0 34 # Name We Ar Pl Wo Ti KO Lo Pt 1 Jamski-San 10 10 4 2 0 0 2 6 2 Hercules Romani 16 4 4 2 1 1 1 8 3 Theben 9 11 4 3 1 1 0 11 4 The Doctor 20 0 4 2 0 1 2 7 5 The Ram 7 13 4 0 0 0 4 0 6 Chaunk 9 11 4 3 0 0 1 9 7 Spacius Maximus 15 5 4 2 0 0 2 6 8 Smasher 20 0 4 1 0 1 3 4


These matches have been much less lethal than the last set - only one KO, rather than three. We also have no draws this time around, there was at least some blood in every match. The Doctor would have been wise to accept Hercules's offer of a draw, and now finds himself in fourth place behind Theben, Chaunk and Hercules.

Theben is the only undefeated player, but noone has been victorious in all their matches, and none of the gladiators are incapacitating a significant number of their opponents.

Jamski was right that 102 points were not what he needed to defeat Theben, he clearly needed even more...

Three matches remain for each contestant, with a total possible 12 points available to any one, and so noone is completely secure in their position yet (even The Ram could still reach the top of the podium! ), but certainly Theben looks likely to make the semis.

I'm now accepting orders for all remaining matches against everyone you haven't fought yet (that's three people each). Here's another copy of the matchups table to remind you:

code:
1. Jamski-San of Nippon W10 A10 2. Hercules Romani (ljcvetko) W16 A04 3. Theben W09 A11 4. The Doctor (DrSpike) W20 A00 5. The Ram (gjramsey) W07 A13 6. Chaunk W09 A11 7. Spacius Maxiumus (Spaced Cowboy) W15 A05 8. Smasher (Vlad Antlerkov) W20 A00 12345678 1 !abcccba 2 a!abcccb 3 ba!abccc 4 cba!abcc 5 ccba!abc 6 cccba!ab 7 bcccba!a 8 abcccba!


Since we're getting towards the semi-finals now we need to decide their format. I'd like to hear peoples opinions on whether or not to run both semi-finals simultaneously, and also on how many HP to begin with (of course, this will not affect the number of points you get to distribute amongst ADP, which will remain 100).

At present my thoughts are that we should run them simultaneously and that we should use 120 HP for the semi-finals and 150 HP for the final.

Last edited by J Bytheway on 11-05-2004 at 18:43

Chaunk is offline Chaunk
King
CEO of Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Apr 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 09-05-2004 23:58
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Orders sent. I'm currently against increasing HP for the semi's... someone will have to persuade me why that could be a good thing.

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
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Sep 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 00:09
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As I said a lot in the discussion last time when I suggested different HP levels, it shouldn't be decided before the matchups are decided. 2 defensive stats players with 150 HP could take forever.

Last time we went with it because there were many attacking players. In this case there is a clear reason - even with 150 my final with SC took 5 rounds IIRC. The previous defensive final with Drogue took about 15 even with 100 HP.

So let's wait and see.

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 01:49
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Umm... can you say who I'm fighting again

I have achieved my main aim already though

-Jam

J Bytheway is offline J Bytheway
Emperor
England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 01:54 Visit J Bytheway's homepage!
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1. Jamski-San of Nippon W10 A10
is against:

4. The Doctor (DrSpike) W20 A00
5. The Ram (gjramsey) W07 A13
6. Chaunk W09 A11

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 02:11
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Thankyou, orders are sent

-Jam

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
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Sep 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 03:45
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Sent.

Ljube is offline Ljube
Emperor
Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by J Bytheway
...
Someone this turn sent in changed orders
...


I changed my orders.

EDIT: Would my original orders have produced a similar result?

Last edited by Ljube on 10-05-2004 at 04:19

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by ljcvetko

EDIT: Would my original orders have produced a similar result?


Perhaps, but that's not for you to know.

Wow, 1st place. I didn't expect that. Of course with 9-12 points up for grabs this round anyone can still get in the semis. I'd be highly disappointed if I didn't get a second semi/final match vs. the Doc.

gjramsey is offline gjramsey
Prince
Wooo! Pig! Sooie!
Nov 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 06:59
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oders on the way.....orders also....

Jamski is offline Jamski
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lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 13:24
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I just want to complain about the bonus points for KO's which give the advantage to agressive players.

There.

-Jam

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
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  Old Post 10-05-2004 13:30
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Myself and Drogue suggested it was removed. No one listened. Besides, it isn't really working so maybe they were right.

Jamski is offline Jamski
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lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 13:33
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I'm not saying change it. I'm just grumbling.

-Jam

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 13:56
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The game itself favors aggressive players. You won't win hiding behind your sword.

Ljube is offline Ljube
Emperor
Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 14:45
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I'm not so sure about that.

Chaunk is offline Chaunk
King
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Apr 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 16:12
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Within the game mechanics themselves attacking stats are favoured. Consider a 20:0, a 10:10 and a 0:20.

The 20:0 faces off against the 10:10. Both players have a bonus to attack of 5 points, and a bonus to power of 10 points. Therefore, if they were to use none of their 100 ADP points, they'd swing a 5 attack at 10 power every turn, for 45 free points.

The 20:0 against the 0:20 means no one has any bonuses at all. No free points.

The 10:10 against the 0:20 though, means everyone has a bonus of 5 to defense and -10 to power. Over three rounds, thats -15 free points. For a player to do any damage, they need to attack at 5 minimum (more likely 6+ so as to try an avoid a draw), and power 11+.

It's a massive advantage to have attacking stats, even if you use them in a defensive way.

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
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Sep 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 17:08
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Sorry but that's completely wrong. The only advantage is easier KOs, and even then you are easier to KO also.

Whatever the stats the effective power bonus per player is the same. With 20/0 against a 0/20 both get a 0 power bonus, with a 10 bonus to attack and defence respectively. Both players in a matchup will always have the same 'free points', it cannot be any other way.

In your example in actuality both players get 60 'free points', then 30 'free points', then finally 0.

More accurate is to say they get 30 free points overall to either attack or defence then power bonuses of 10, 0 and -10 per round respectively.

What attacking stats does is make the Round robin marginally easier because bigger power bonuses to both players mean there is better chance of (either player) approaching 0 for the KO. Therefore one win and one loss has a slightly higher expected valuation for example. It's very slight though.

Last edited by DrSpike on 10-05-2004 at 17:13

Jamski is offline Jamski
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lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 17:13
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Yeah, that's what I said. I only want to complain about it though, not change it. I mean, we want to encourage attacking play don't we? And its possible to get a KO with W:0 A:20

-Jam

Spaced Cowboy is offline Spaced Cowboy
Emperor
Dallas TX
Nov 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 18:19
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Sent, sorry JB, I put dashes in.

Drogue is offline Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 18:21 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Theben
The game itself favors aggressive players. You won't win hiding behind your sword.

That's not actually true, look at the first wars. I had a higher Armour than Weapon, played defensively, and won I only qualified for the semis because of a couple of *very* cheeky little chip against The Princess (HongHu) and Jamski-San

J Bytheway is offline J Bytheway
Emperor
England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 18:32 Visit J Bytheway's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy
Sent, sorry JB, I put dashes in.


Don't worry about it - I never got around to automating the processs of entering orders anyway, so it doesn't make any difference.

We're just waiting on Theben, Hercules and Smasher now.

J Bytheway is offline J Bytheway
Emperor
England
Jul 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 18:36 Visit J Bytheway's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
As I said a lot in the discussion last time when I suggested different HP levels, it shouldn't be decided before the matchups are decided. 2 defensive stats players with 150 HP could take forever.

Last time we went with it because there were many attacking players. In this case there is a clear reason - even with 150 my final with SC took 5 rounds IIRC. The previous defensive final with Drogue took about 15 even with 100 HP.

So let's wait and see.


I expected you to say something like this . However, I think that there's not really much variation in the play this time around, from looking at the distribution of damage and KOs.

But it's not over yet, so I probably will be waiting and seeing.

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 10-05-2004 23:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Drogue

That's not actually true, look at the first wars. I had a higher Armour than Weapon, played defensively, and won I only qualified for the semis because of a couple of *very* cheeky little chip against The Princess (HongHu) and Jamski-San


By aggressive I didn't mean high weapon low armor. I meant someone who is actively attempting to read his opponent and using whatever it takes to counter what they analyze, instead of using a standard set of orders. Someone with W00 A20 can be aggressive.

Theben is offline Theben
Emperor
Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
Wink  Old Post 10-05-2004 23:54
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quote:
Originally posted by J Bytheway


I expected you to say something like this . However, I think that there's not really much variation in the play this time around, from looking at the distribution of damage and KOs.

But it's not over yet, so I probably will be waiting and seeing.


I would've said the same. There aren't many defensive players, but there are several high weapon players. Smasher vs. Doc in the semis could end in 2 rounds, easily.

Ljube is offline Ljube
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May 2003
time: 06:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Theben

... There aren't many defensive players ...



What's a defensive player?

Theben is offline Theben
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Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 00:16
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Sorry- a low weapon, high armor player.

J Bytheway is offline J Bytheway
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England
Jul 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2004 03:12 Visit J Bytheway's homepage!
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Now only awaiting orders from Theben and Smasher.

DrSpike is offline DrSpike
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  Old Post 11-05-2004 03:17
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After all those posts?

J Bytheway is offline J Bytheway
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 11-05-2004 03:21 Visit J Bytheway's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DrSpike
After all those posts?


Yes, I was trying to think of a way to hint at that subtly, but I couldn't. Thanks for sparing me the necessity .

Theben is offline Theben
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Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 11-05-2004 03:54
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Do I see a pot referring to a kettle?

Soon. Maybe.

EDIT: J already used that cliche earlier. Gotta be original. Umm...

Lo! Is that a grapefruit that, uh... harkens as a doorbell?

 
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