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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:35
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Back to the original topic:
quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
From today's review of the movie in The Wall Street Journal, with possibly the most puntastic title ever seen in a movie review:
quote:
Homer, Run: Epic "Troy" Hectors us about History; A Tin Ear for the Bronze Age
Never have so many forgettable characters been so fixated by fame as they are in "Troy."
"They'll be talking about this war for a thousand years," Brad Pitt's Achilles tells Hector.
"If you go to Troy," Achilles mother tells him, "people will remember your name for thousands of years, but I will never see you again."
"That's why no one will remember your name," Achilles tells a little kid who voices skepticism about fighting giants.
"This war will never be forgotten," says Odysseus, "nor will the heroes who fight it."
"You came here because you want your names to last through the ages," Agamemnon tells his troops.
So how long will "Troy" the movie be remembered? That depends upon who's doing the remembering. For students of ancient history, maybe a day. For devotees of long, flat-footed spectacles, a week. For fans of Brad Pitt, a month. But for fans of high-end Hollywood folly - i.e. a willingness to throw a quarter-billion dollars or more at a production with a humdrum script and ho-hum special effects - a long, long time. |
Ouch! |
I agree with every word in that review  That fixation on fame was rather getting on my nerves.
The movie is indeed a travesty, a rape of the Illiad. If viewed as a movie on itself, it was an okay action flick, but nothing more -- I will indeed have forgotten it in a week.
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Kaak
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I agree, UK, fantastic movie. I was very impressed how they condensed 10 years into 3 hours. the Adaptation was fantastic.
Brad Pitt Did a fantastic job. His intensity before the gates of troy was unnerving. I felt the characters were well developed, and helen was georgious.
All and all, I think it is a classic. My mom even liked it, and she typically hates fighting-movies.
Some of you need to stop whining that it isn't exactly like the illiad. I don't think they could have put gods in the movie without significantly cheesing it up.
anyway, i loved it and i'll go see it a couple more times in the theatre. one final WOW.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
quote:
Herakles bedded men as well as women. |
i'd love to see some quotes on that.... |
'While walking through the wilderness, Heracles was set upon by the Dryopians. He killed their king, Theiodamas, and the others gave up and offered him Prince Hylas. He took the young man on as his weapons bearer, and the two soon fell in love and were together "morning, noon and night." Heracles took the young man with him on the Argo, making Hylas and Heracles two of the Argonauts. On this trip, Hylas was kidnapped by a nymph. Heracles, heartbroken, searched for a long time along with Polyphemus, but Hylas had fallen in love with the nymphs and never showed up again. The ship set sail without them. '
'Herakles had countless affairs, with men as well as with women. He naturally had a great many children from various women, collectively referred to as the Heracleidae (most notable: Macaria). One event that stands out was his stay at the palace of King Thespios, who liked his build and encouraged Heracles to make love to his daughters, all fifty of them in one night. They all got pregnant and all bore sons. Many of the kings of ancient Greece traced their lines to one or another of these, notably the kings of Sparta and Macedon. During the course of his life he married twice. His first was to Megara, whose two children he murdered in a fit of madness and whom he later gave in marriage to his ex-boyfriend Iolaus, because the sight of her was too painful. Then he married Deianira, whom he had to fight the river god Achelous for. '
So that's Hylas and Iolaus. Perhaps you think Herakles was just instructing them in macrame, or the best way to make fig and honey tartlets.
'The worship of Horned Apollo included ecstatic naked dancing and feats of acrobatics (including an early form of two-man ritual volleyball played with a bright purple ball!) followed by sex performed by young men. First among the sanctuaries and temples of the island was that of Apollo Karneios, and in the middle of the month Karneios (August-September) the Karneia took place - the solemn and important festival introduced from Sparta. At the height of the festivities and when the moon was full, the Gymnopaediae (which means "naked boy ritual") were held. On a specially dedicated square, close by the cliff edge, and watched by the citizens, naked boys danced and sang paeans to Apollo and apparently had sex (some of whom were moved to express their feelings in the brand new Greek alphabet which are still visible in the nearby stones).'
http://home.earthlink.net/~ekerilaz/theran.html
On the other hand, perhaps mighty Herakles was introducing them to the joys of purple volleyball.....
Several myths that feature, prominently, same-sex lovers:
Zeus and Ganymede, Herakles and Iolaus, Poseidon and Pelops, and Apollo and the Spartan Hyacinth
How the relationship is defined is usually obvious by the 'moral' of the myth- the men are loyal to each other, and feel mutually obligated, even in the case of Achilles and Patroklus, to the point of dying to salvage honour.
The personification of the North Wind, Boreas, attempts to seduce Hyacinth the Spartan youth, who is the lover of Apollo. Hyacinth remains steadfast in his devotion to Apollo, so Boreas slays him, causing Apollo to transform him.
Moral? Stand by your man- or god, as the case may be.
The importance of this myth loomed so large in Spartan culture that it became a reason for one of the three yearly celebrations of Apollo, the Hyacinthia.
Xenophon mentions that he did not fail to see one of the Gymnopaedia celebrations in 20 years. Now there's a surprise....
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Dr Strangelove
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I agree with the rantings about "Oh Brother Where Art Thou", it was an excellent comedy.
I've never seen any one accurately represent ancient warfare, so who cares if this film doesn't?
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
Braveheart IS a true story though, so you can complain that Hollywood changed stuff.
Troy is not a filming of the Illiad though. Its a film about that war.
Big difference.
Hence, who cares about accuracy?
-Jam |
I care about accuracy, especially if anyone believes that that travesty of history, 'Braveheart' was a true story as filmed.
It was 'based' on the story of William Wallace but its historical errors are many and egregious.
'Sir' William Wallace was never knighted. The Scots nobles inherited their titles. So, after Sir William Wallace's father and elder brother died, he automatically became a "sir". Therefore, the knighting scene is inaccurate.
In the battle of Stirling Bridge, there was no bridge, as shown in the film.
Sir William Wallace never encountered Isabella.
Wallace was killed in 1305, Prince Edward and Isabella were married in 1309, and she gave birth to her first child in 1312, 7 years after Mel Gibson/William Wallace impregnates her and 'sires' Edward III.
Sir William Wallace's wife was born to the nobility and did not have a peasant background .
They also had a child from their marriage, and were married for longer than the film implies.
You can always see 'Braveheart' along with 'The Patriot' (another hysterically, historically inaccurate Gibson period film) and his pointless remake of 'Point Blank' as run throughs for his god porn slasher film, ' Jesus on Good Friday 13th, Part 12: When the Whipcord Comes Down.'
http://www.medievalscotland.org/sco...arterrors.shtml
There are many good reasons to dislike Mel Gibson, but I cherish his cack-handed approach to history as being my main one.
Had Petersen adopted Gibson's approach, we should probably have seen the Greeks being led by Alexander the Great, Helen looking like Marilyn Monroe in the Seven Year Itch, and Xerxes rescuing the Trojans before fathering Zoroaster on Cleopatra who gets the Trojans and Greeks to all live happily ever after. Achilles would have worn thick gumboots, and Patroklos would have had a double, who died in his place. As it is, 'Troy' is probably the best 'Iliad' we will see in some time- it ain't the poem, but it was never going to be.
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15-05-2004 22:07
Besides, aren't you concerned that they are making a love story of a woman who was a WAR PRIZE?!
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