22-05-2004 01:18									#151
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In the realm of real numbers and mathematics, 1 + 1 = 2 is objective, not subjective, and is therefore correct.

Correct, by definition, means lacking flaws or errors. I don't see how the popularity of a practice suddenly removes flaws or errors, but what do I know? I'm simply a science guy.

	22-05-2004 01:26									#152
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Can you demonstrate to me that we live in an objective reality? Can you show me that we aren't simply a construct of someone? Or that we are force fed to believe a line of reality? Can you prove to me any of it? Decartes' "I think therefore I am" is nice, but doesn't answer it.

In that case, if there is no proof of objective reality, how can anything be objective within it? It's simply subjective based on what you percieve and what you think you know.

Likewise, flaws or errors are determined by our perception of things. A prime example of a variability of 'correct' is a traffic accident. An officer can talk to 15 different people and they'll say 15 different things. How do you come up with a 'correct' answer of what happened? Most of time, which point is more in agreement will win out. If the points of disagreement are close, the officer may make credibility determinations, but in the end what is the 'correct' answer is flexible.

	22-05-2004 01:29									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Can you demonstrate to me that we live in an objective reality? Can you show me that we aren't simply a construct of someone? Or that we are force fed to believe a line of reality? Can you prove to me any of it? Decartes' "I think therefore I am" is nice, but doesn't answer it.

Which is why "correct" cannot be used in the fairy world of social sciences, but only in rigidly defined constructs like mathematics.

quote: In that case, if there is no proof of objective reality, how can anything be objective within it? It's simply subjective based on what you percieve and what you think you know.

Yep.

quote: Likewise, flaws or errors are determined by our perception of things. A prime example of a variability of 'correct' is a traffic accident. An officer can talk to 15 different people and they'll say 15 different things. How do you come up with a 'correct' answer of what happened?

You can't ever come up with a "correct" answer of what happened, only the most plausible which can be dealt with as being the consensus, and therefore the acceptable answer, or if you prefer, effectively correct.

	22-05-2004 01:34									#154
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quote: only in rigidly defined constructs like mathematics.

Which is, as you said, a construct. And thus, since there is no objective reality, it must be a subjective terminology which is fenced in by the defined construct. That doesn't make it any less subjective in the whole scheme of things. Even if you look at the world mathamatics, there is still an entire world just outside of it... it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

	22-05-2004 01:37									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Which is, as you said, a construct. And thus, since there is no objective reality, it must be a subjective terminology which is fenced in by the defined construct. That doesn't make it any less subjective in the whole scheme of things. Even if you look at the world mathamatics, there is still an entire world just outside of it... it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

For all intents and purposes, mathematics does exists in a vacuum. It was developed to help us understand our world, but it is not dependant on it. It has its own rules, and as long as it stays in the sandbox of mathematics, it is isolated from the subjective real world.

That's not guaranteeing there's always a perfect mapping from mathematics to the real world, because the real world IS subjective. But inside the isolated world of mathematics, we can deal with objectiveness: 1+1=2 is objectively true for real numbers, and this is determined using mathematics entirely.

It is not objectively true to say 1 person +1 person = 2 persons, because that then maps to the outside world, which is subjective.

	22-05-2004 03:00									#156
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That's racist Asher! Black christians can protest too!

	22-05-2004 03:02									#157
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?

	22-05-2004 03:04									#158
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From the last page...I never noticed there was a page 4

	22-05-2004 03:06									#159
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Oh BTW, you call yourself a 'scientist'? LOLOLOLOLOL

	22-05-2004 03:10									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Oh BTW, you call yourself a 'scientist'? LOLOLOLOLOL

Do you know what the S stands for in a CS degree?
Do you know what the Sc stands for in BSc in CS?

No need to be bitter because you can't get a good job with half of a PhD -- some of us "scientists" are actually useful and can apply their knowledge to better the world, rather than working at McDonalds and whining about being a virgin in their late 20s.

	22-05-2004 03:17									#161
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You haven't been keeping track of my life have you recently Asher. I am now in London, earning a lot more money than you

	22-05-2004 03:18									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison You haven't been keeping track of my life have you recently Asher. I am now in London, earning a lot more money than you

How much are you earning, and how much is the average there?

You'd better be, I'm a frickin' intern and not even done my undergrad.

And why would I keep track of your life. It's always the same ol' sob story, the setting just changes sometimes.

	22-05-2004 03:18									#163
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The S/Sc is there to make it sound like a science, making you feel like you have a sense of self-importance, so you can go onto bulletin boards and tell people who are a scientist

	22-05-2004 03:21									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison The S/Sc is there to make it sound like a science, making you feel like you have a sense of self-importance, so you can go onto bulletin boards and tell people who are a scientist

You do realize that you don't need to wear a lab coat and play with beakers all day to be a scientist.

quote: scientist n : a person with advanced knowledge of one of more sciences [syn: man of science]

quote: computer scientist n : a scientist who specializes in the theory of computation and the design of computers

	22-05-2004 03:22									#165
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But you need to have studied a science first

	22-05-2004 03:23									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison But you need to have studied a science first

How much do you make, and what is the average in London?

	22-05-2004 03:28									#167
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Probably not as much as your parents who lavish you, mummys boy

	22-05-2004 03:28									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Probably not as much as your parents who lavish you, mummys boy

I'm living on my own and supporting myself, 3,500km from my parents.

Your reluctance to divulge your salary speaks volumes.

	22-05-2004 03:30									#169
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On how much? None of my damn business I suppse, like my income is none of yours

	22-05-2004 03:32									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison On how much? None of my damn business I suppse, like my income is none of yours

I make a pretty penny, and a lot of my expenses are covered by the company.

If it was none of my business, why did you bring it up?

quote: I am now in London, earning a lot more money than you

	22-05-2004 03:35									#171
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You brought it up

	22-05-2004 03:36									#172
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Erm. No?

I'll quote you again:

quote: I am now in London, earning a lot more money than you

	22-05-2004 03:38									#173
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...prompted by this: "No need to be bitter because you can't get a good job with half of a PhD -- some of us "scientists" are actually useful and can apply their knowledge to better the world, rather than working at McDonalds and whining about being a virgin in their late 20s."

Now this is getting really, really boring

	22-05-2004 03:39									#174
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It's only boring because getting your ass handed to you is never fun.

	22-05-2004 03:41									#175
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*sticks fingers in ears* Lalalalalalala

	22-05-2004 04:24									#176
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quote: Originally posted by Asher And because you couldn't get laid, again.

Using aspect of someone's sexuality as an insult? Tut-tut...

	22-05-2004 04:25									#177
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I don't get in a flap over it, because, at the end of the day, I know I'm not sh*gging Screach

	22-05-2004 04:29									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Do you know what the Sc stands for in BSc in CS?

My girlfriend's degree is a BSc, and it's in "German and Europeans studies". Pshaw. (Incidentally, surely women should get a Spinster of Sciences award?)

	22-05-2004 04:30									#179
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I am back home with family and friends for the next nine days and after a long car drive, I wanted to see if I missed anything important to this discussion.



guess what . . . . . ??

	22-05-2004 04:47									#180
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You did miss a good old fashioned b*tch fight