26-05-2004 19:08									#121
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quote: In neither does she say that Bush knew and let it happen.

It was a quick Google search by DD, however, what does:

"The Bush Administration has been engaged in a conspiracy of silence."

supposed to mean?! And are you really saying that reputed newspapers like the NY Times, etc., were making it all up? Come on! This conspiracy theory is even beneath you!

	26-05-2004 19:08									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui "The Bush Administration has been engaged in a conspiracy of silence." is simply calling for an investigation into the intelligence of 9/11, and not saying Bush had anything to do with it! How rich!

Haven't they been involved in a conspiracy of silence? They fought against investigating 9/11. They refused until threatened with subpeonas to cooperate with the commission. They fought like hell to keep the Aug 6, memo from being made public on the grounds that it would harm national security, and there was nothing in there that would harm national security.

McKinney was right, an you're perpetuating a lie. Shame on you. I thought you had some integrity.

	26-05-2004 19:08									#123
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Did you read either of these essays?

Yes, I did. Why do you ask?

	26-05-2004 19:12									#124
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Ah yes... to che it's a "conspiracy of silence" which only backs McKinney's claim that Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks. After all, why the need for a conspiracy?

Is the Washington Post a conservative rag, che?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...34565-2002Apr11

quote: In a recent interview with a Berkeley, Calif., radio station, McKinney said: "We know there were numerous warnings of the events to come on September 11th. . . . What did this administration know and when did it know it, about the events of September 11th? Who else knew, and why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered? . . . What do they have to hide?"

and

quote: She added that "persons close to this administration are poised to make huge profits off America's new war."

quote: She suggested that the administration was serving the interests of a Washington-based investment firm, the Carlyle Group, which employs a number of high-ranking former government officials from both parties. Former president George H.W. Bush -- the current president's father -- is an adviser to the firm. McKinney said the war on terrorism has enriched Carlyle Group investors by enhancing the value of a military contractor partly owned by the firm.

Are you telling me that means that she ONLY wants an investigation? Are you saying that she isn't implicating the Bush Administration in causing 9/11? Are you THIS dense? Or are you grasping at straws to pin 9/11 on Bush, like the nutter McKinney was?

	26-05-2004 19:16									#125
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I still stand by my earlier opinion of any and all people that take the conspiracy theory put foward by Palast.

	26-05-2004 19:17									#126
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I'll stand by your opinion of those people as well, DD.

	26-05-2004 19:19									#127
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Not in causing, but rather in failing to do all that could be done to prevent it: in other words "intelligence failure."

Which, IMO, certainly deserves investigation. And I've been sickened by the Bushies' squirming to try and avoid said investigation.

We had to investigate Clinton's blowjob, but this isn't worthy? ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME?

-Arrian

	26-05-2004 19:22									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian And I've been sickened by the Bushies' squirming to try and avoid said investigation.

Given the political sideshow the investigation seems to be degenerating into, this is somewhat understandable.

	26-05-2004 19:22									#129
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No, she basically accused them of causing. She said that they knew about 9/11 and sat around and did nothing. Not didn't do all to prevent it, but they KNEW (why didn't they warn the people of NY who were needlessly murdered?) and they let it happen because their friends would profit from it. That's why Senator Miller and the rest called her a loony. Hell, if you looked at the rest of her political career, you could call her a loony for other things, but this took the cake.

	26-05-2004 19:39									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And are you really saying that reputed newspapers like the NY Times, etc., were making it all up?

Have you seen the NY Times today?

	26-05-2004 19:41									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui No, she basically accused them of causing. She said that they knew about 9/11 and sat around and did nothing.

She never made the accusation. She laid out the facts, which are facts of record which have been proven. If the facts make the accusation, that something you have to deal with.

We know they knew something was going to happen and that they did do nothing about it.

	26-05-2004 19:44									#132
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Have you seen the NY Times today?

I stopped taking the Times seriously after Blair. However you still have the Post to deal with.

	26-05-2004 19:46									#133
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quote: why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered? . . . What do they have to hide?

quote: persons close to this administration are poised to make huge profits off America's new war

Facts? So the Bush Administration knew about 9/11 (or as McKinney said they knew about the events to come on 9/11) and did not 'warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered'. Hmmm, sounds like she's accusing the administration of knowing the exact details and let it happen (needlessly murdered) so their friends could profit.

Come on, you are better than this. Stop playing dumb! The sad part is if it was the opposite way around, a Democrat President and Republican Congresswoman you'd be calling her a nut and right-wing propagandist.

	26-05-2004 19:52									#134
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And if that was the situation, you would be defending the "right wing nut" and calling for impeachment of the Democratic President.

Meh.

-Arrian

	26-05-2004 19:53									#135
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You mean like I backed people like Rick Sanitorum? Oh wait... I didn't

	26-05-2004 19:55									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: why did they not warn the innocent people of New York who were needlessly murdered? . . . What do they have to hide? quote: persons close to this administration are poised to make huge profits off America's new war

The second quote is true! Haliburton and other well connected firms are making billions in profit off the occupation! We knew before the war they had established no-bid contracts with Republican donors. How is this proof she's a nut!?!

As for the former, why didn't the government warn us? Why have they been so reluctant the cooperate with the investigation?

How is McKinny wrong here? Does everything just go down your memory hole???

	26-05-2004 20:01									#137
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quote: The second quote is true! Haliburton and other well connected firms are making billions in profit off the occupation! We knew before the war they had established no-bid contracts with Republican donors. How is this proof she's a nut!?!

Because she is insinuating that the reason the Bush Administration (who knew about the events of 9/11 before they happened, remember ) didn't tell the people of New York. Because their friends would get paid.

THAT is why she is a nut.

quote: why didn't the government warn us

CAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT TWO PLANES WERE GOING TO HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER YOU CONSPIRACY THEORY MORON!

	26-05-2004 20:04									#138
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This thread is starting to get surreal.

	26-05-2004 20:04									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: why didn't the government warn us CAUSE THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT TWO PLANES WERE GOING TO HIT THE WORLD TRADE CENTER YOU CONSPIRACY THEORY MORON!

They knew planes were going to be hijacked. That alone should have been reason enough to warn the public. Especially since immediately afterwards, Ashcroft stopped using commercial airlines. If it's serious enough for the man charged with our saftey to stop flying, it was serious enough for us.

	26-05-2004 20:28									#140
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[joke mode]

Q: You know why it takes so long for people in Florida to go to sleep?

A: Because they keep having to recount their sheep...

[/joke mode]

	26-05-2004 23:12									#141
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DD, Imran: Where did she say anything loony? Where did she make any statement that has not, in fact, been shown to be true?

	26-05-2004 23:19									#142
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Where has anything Palast said stood up to scrutiny?

	26-05-2004 23:23									#143
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Well, your links certainly provided no support whatsoever for the notion that McKinney is loony or in any way inaccurate, whereas he does lots of true investigative research to base his work on.

	26-05-2004 23:26									#144
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I'm not trying to prove she's a loon. I'm trying to disabuse you of the notion that somehow all these quotes people beat her over the head with are fabricated.

	26-05-2004 23:32									#145
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Find the quotes, then. All the actual quotes I've seen are true statements of fact, and reasonable conclusions or speculations based on them. So what's the basis for all the attacks on her?

	27-05-2004 00:54									#146
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It's like saying since FoxNews just says the facts they are not loony . You can always put a spin or biased inference on the facts, which McKinney has done.

	27-05-2004 11:26									#147
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So, tell us specifically which part of anything she said was loony. And don't claim that she said Bush planned the attack or knew specifically what and when would happen, because what she said was that he had plenty of warning that exactly that sort of thing was likely to happen sometime and didn't do anything to prevent it -- which is simply true.

	27-05-2004 18:14									#148
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quote: she said was that he had plenty of warning that exactly that sort of thing was likely to happen sometime and didn't do anything to prevent it -- which is simply true.

He had plenty of warning that people were going to hijack planes and fly them into the World Trade Center? I doubt it. Is there any proof Bush knew of these threats? Did the FBI or CIA tell him that this threat was imminent? Don't think so. And also, that sounds very much like he knew specifically what and when would happen, doesn't it?

Why bring up, in the same interview that a war would be financially beneficial to Bush's friends? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together to find out McKinney was insinuating the Bush willfully ignored evidence because his friend would make a ton of money out of a war. This isn't hard, people!

	27-05-2004 20:47									#149
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Bush had clear written warning that terrorists were interested in hijacking planes and in flying planes into buildings.

	27-05-2004 21:01									#150
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Really?! Bush had concrete information that terrorists were going to hijack planes and fly them into buildings? I think that whole 9/11 commission is saying that he didn't or that the CIA failed in identifying the thread - ie, intelligence failures (remember that word). Remember the Aug 6th daily intelligence briefing only said that OBL had planned to hijack planes to release a friend of his. Nothing about crashing them into buildings and the whole hijacking thing was not corroborated and called 'sensational threat reporting'. I guess hindsight is 20/20.

And if Bush did know, why did he not tell anyone? So his friends could financially benefit from a war?

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 27-05-2004 at 21:13