27-05-2004 23:31									#61
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One of the main concepts of Deep Space 9 was inconsistant.

Sisko and his son were survivors of the battle of Wolf 359 between the Federation and the Borg. (Not only Sisko and Jake, but several people are seen escaping in multiple craft fromt heh Saratoga)

In that episode of Next Generation ("Best of Both Worlds, part II"), Data does not detect any life forms. No escape pods. In later episodes, it is implied that all hands were lost at that battle. (Picard blames himself in the next episode.)

None of the Star Trek series has ever been consistant. Even within it's own story lines.

	27-05-2004 23:32									#62
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Q-Cube!

You still aren't naming flaws!! Oh wait. NX-01 looks like an inverted Akira. Hold the phones

You know, I'd say Enterprise would be better if it didn't cop-out with a war-arc. Maybe a peace arc would've been less recycled Babylon 5, DS9-ish. But aside from that. Special effects. Jolene Blalock. YEEEOW! Beam me up baby.

Yes, I am being consistent. Every ST show has had inconsistences, but they were usually minor. Where is the earth-shattering flaw with enterprise? Phase cannon vs. Phaser? That DOESN'T cut it people.

	27-05-2004 23:33									#63
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quote: The fact we saw the Ferengi is a timeline gaffe not the crap already listed.

not sure what you mean by this.

but wiglaf, that last post i made are more substantive criticism on why i don't like the show. the timeline inconsistencies are merely further examples of how it weakens both star trek and enterprise as a franchise and a show.

there's also a philosophical argument that i don't like. enterprise is showing the future by going into the future's past. personally, i would have liked to continue going into the universe's future: uss relativity, for instance, a good voy episode, has plenty of the makings for a good series. or, if you really wanted to sex things up, have a series set in starfleet academy--after voyager returns.

	27-05-2004 23:33									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf Special effects. Jolene Blalock. YEEEOW! Beam me up baby.

Quoted for future reference

	27-05-2004 23:35									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: The fact we saw the Ferengi is a timeline gaffe not the crap already listed. not sure what you mean by this.

The Enterprise fought with the Ferengi.

	27-05-2004 23:38									#66
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quote: One of the main concepts of Deep Space 9 was inconsistant. Sisko and his son were survivors of the battle of Wolf 359 between the Federation and the Borg. (Not only Sisko and Jake, but several people are seen escaping in multiple craft fromt heh Saratoga) In that episode of Next Generation ("Best of Both Worlds, part II"), Data does not detect any life forms. No escape pods. In later episodes, it is implied that all hands were lost at that battle. (Picard blames himself in the next episode.) None of the Star Trek series has ever been consistant. Even within it's own story lines.

quote: Yes, I am being consistent. Every ST show has had inconsistences, but they were usually minor.

see this comment i made earlier:

quote: granted, chronology with star trek is like trying to maintain consistency with any comic book series, but please, people, we don't need something to be that... inconsistent.

===

quote: You still aren't naming flaws!! Oh wait. NX-01 looks like an inverted Akira. Hold the phones

see my comment listed above:

quote: i don't like the design ethic, since the ship looks too new--taking design cues from the akira-class starships first seen in first contact, as well as being all sharp blue/black/grey-hued rather than the muted/earth tones of tos/tng/voy. while the interior decor isn't bad, it doesn't engender in me a feel of "star trek".

maybe a design ethic in your mind might not be a reason to not watch a show, but for me, it IS a flaw. it's almost as bad as having CSI focus on X-Files material. it doesn't fit, making the whole thing feel wrong, and thus making the show less enjoyable to watch.

therefore, it is a flaw.

===

quote: You know, I'd say Enterprise would be better if it didn't cop-out with a war-arc. Maybe a peace arc would've been less recycled Babylon 5, DS9-ish.

i don't disagree.

quote: But aside from that. Special effects. Jolene Blalock. YEEEOW! Beam me up baby.

personally, i don't find jolene blalock as a vulcan attractive.

quote: Where is the earth-shattering flaw with enterprise? Phase cannon vs. Phaser? That DOESN'T cut it people.

phase cannon vs. phaser is not the biggest flaw that i pointed out, wiglaf.

	27-05-2004 23:39									#67
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quote: The Enterprise fought with the Ferengi.

yes, i mentioned that in the first page. the wording of that sentence just confused me, that's all.

	27-05-2004 23:50									#68
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I never really liked the design of ST ships.
I liked the premise of initial exploration of space using retrofuturistic tech. That's not wuite what STE is, but that it's what it was supposed to be.
I like the 9/11 parallels as well. Good sci-fi is often a reflection of current events.
The saucer design is not realistic for a human spaceship. We don't think that way. That's why we don't have circle houses or circle buildings. Spaceships would either be sleek with a missile or rectangular shape.
Every previous episode from all the previous shows make it increasingly hard for a tv show to be consistent with every other episode. I recommend just looking at this as it's own entity and only judge it when it contradicts itself.
jolene blaylock can be attractive even as a vulcan crackhead.

	27-05-2004 23:50									#69
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One thing that bothered me since the re-birth of the franchise on television with the TNG was that it seemed that each race of aliens had decided on the one definitive hairdo for their entire planet.

In the original series episode Amok Time, they crew went to Vulcan and they had different hairdos, long, short, etc. Exactly when in Vulcan's history did they pass the law that all citizens had to ask their barber "Give me the Moe Howard, please"

	27-05-2004 23:53									#70
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I always hated starfleet vessels. They looked like damn cruise ships and the crew looked like a 23 century love boat crew.

Klingons and Cardassians know how to design warships

	28-05-2004 00:15									#71
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quote: Originally posted by shmily_dana Hint : The alien is from one of the Star Trek movies...

Which one?

	28-05-2004 00:20									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I always hated starfleet vessels. They looked like damn cruise ships and the crew looked like a 23 century love boat crew. Klingons and Cardassians know how to design warships

Well, the Defiant looked like a warship, as did the Dominion vessels. I always liked Romuland warbirds best.

	28-05-2004 00:27									#73
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, the Defiant looked like a warship, as did the Dominion vessels. I always liked Romuland warbirds best.

Defiant was the only exception to the cruiseship mentality they seemed to have.

	28-05-2004 01:19									#74
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Compared to Voyager and DS9, Enterprise is a gem.

Compared to Babylon 5 and Farscape, it's craptastic.

	28-05-2004 01:41									#75
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quote: we don't need something to be that... inconsistent.

enterprise's ship is slightly off-color and they misnamed a phaser in episode one. how is that different from TNG? I have a whole nit-pickers book on that. It's quite large. for christ's sake.

quote: maybe a design ethic in your mind might not be a reason to not watch a show, but for me, it IS a flaw. it's almost as bad as having CSI focus on X-Files material. it doesn't fit, making the whole thing feel wrong, and thus making the show less enjoyable to watch.

what design flaw?? it doesn't look THAT much like an akira. besides, the interior looks fine to me...you know, TOS had a punch card like computer system. that's a little out of date to me. timeline distortion!

quote: Compared to Voyager and DS9, Enterprise is a gem.

apparently you did not watch DS9. it's a lot better than all the shows you mentioned.

	28-05-2004 01:47									#76
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Here's to hoping they burn the Enterprise series, and replace it with reruns of the original STAR TREK.

	28-05-2004 01:54									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Pax The saucer design is not realistic for a human spaceship. We don't think that way. That's why we don't have circle houses or circle buildings. Spaceships would either be sleek with a missile or rectangular shape.

Hmm. Wigwams. Tepees. Yurts. An 1859 circular house ]An 1859 circular house[/URL] The Hirschhorn art museum. Various circular highrise apartment buildings in Chicago. Lots of circular towers at hospitals.

Yup, no circular houses or buildings. Thats quite an impressive alternate universe you've got

	28-05-2004 01:55									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed there's also a philosophical argument that i don't like. enterprise is showing the future by going into the future's past. personally, i would have liked to continue going into the universe's future: uss relativity, for instance, a good voy episode, has plenty of the makings for a good series. or, if you really wanted to sex things up, have a series set in starfleet academy--after voyager returns.

I think the premise was spot on. Go back to the early days of space travel when things weren't as polished or surreal as the later series make it out to be.

In my opinion they didn't move far enough in that direction. This is a military vessel that still doesn't seem like it. I agree with whoever said it seems like cruise ship. Not realistic or plausable.

Plus wasn't this the very first human ship to start exploring deep space? What's up with that black guy who was raised on deep space frieghters? And they keep running across stranded humans out in the middle of no where. Blah.

	28-05-2004 01:57									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Unspeakable Horror Which one?

The Nazi alien was a Remen (as seen in the movie Nemesis).

I did not recognize it at first, but I read that on a ST forum.

	28-05-2004 01:58									#80
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Hmm. Wigwams. Tepees. Yurts. The Hirschhorn art museum. Various circular highrise apartment buildings in Chicago. Lots of circular towers at hospitals. Yup, no circular houses or buildings. Thats quite an impressive alternate universe you've got.

You win. I'm not even going to try any technicalities. Still the design looks unnatural for a vehicle.

	28-05-2004 02:05									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber I always hated starfleet vessels. They looked like damn cruise ships and the crew looked like a 23 century love boat crew. Klingons and Cardassians know how to design warships

Those aren't warships.

THIS is a warship

	28-05-2004 02:06									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Pax The saucer design is not realistic for a human spaceship. We don't think that way. That's why we don't have circle houses or circle buildings. Spaceships would either be sleek with a missile or rectangular shape.

Three words: Warp-field geometry.

Rounded shapes work better for the efficiency-minded Humans. Non-circular shapes work, but not as well based on *current Starfleet understanding of warp physics. Other species choose less-rounded shapes for aethetics.

*Ent-era, TOS-era, TMP-era, TNG/DS9/Voy-era

	28-05-2004 02:07									#83
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And a beautiful warship it is.

	28-05-2004 02:09									#84
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Why does it have wings? It's a spaceship... I take it it makes sounds too while flying?

	28-05-2004 02:09									#85
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'tis but a giant tripod.

	28-05-2004 02:13									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Why does it have wings? It's a spaceship... I take it it makes sounds too while flying?

Those aren't wings, they're engines. The entire structure, not just the hardpoints at the end. We see in Crusade the Thrusters firing along the "wing" during close ups of when it's manuevering.

Also, the ends of the wings force energy towards the front end, which creates a B.F.G.(tm)

	28-05-2004 02:14									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Verto 'tis but a giant tripod.

Correction... a 3 kilometer tripd with 70-something fighters. And a BFG. (in adition to the regular guns, and close in weapons systems. Can any Star Trek ship claim that? No.)

	28-05-2004 02:16									#88
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The main weapon is an Uber-blaster a-la-Vorlon technology. The weapon charges at the ends of the 3 "wings" and discharges from the bow of the vessel.

This image shows the discharge just about to reach the bow.

Attachment: 041.jpg
This has been downloaded 85 time(s).

	28-05-2004 02:24									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Correction... a 3 kilometer tripd with 70-something fighters. And a BFG. (in adition to the regular guns, and close in weapons systems. Can any Star Trek ship claim that? No.)

The Borg cube.

	28-05-2004 02:27									#90
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The Borg are a bunch of idiots. And I suspect that even B5 warships (Earth, Centauri, Minbari, or others) could wipe the floor with them.

If for no other reason that the militaries of the B5verse aren't incompetant communists.