 |
|
dejon
|
|
I have generally liked this new show when I have watched it, but I make no effort to tune in regularly.
Yes, all the shows have flaws - but what doesn't (any genre)? It may be just a sign of the sci-fi demographic that it bothers us more.
I am truly tired of Star Trek time travel BS though - is it so hard to come up with non-time travel, interesting plots?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
wow, a certain someone has been gone for a long time...
JM
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Unspeakable Horror
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by shmily_dana
The Nazi alien was a Remen (as seen in the movie Nemesis).
I did not recognize it at first, but I read that on a ST forum. |
Thanks, I didnīt notice.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Pax
|
|
B5 is generally a better more emotional show as compared to any Trek. Some of the aliens are truly ALIEN unlike Trek. The ships look more believable and Kick Ass vice the Trek ships that look weak in comparison. The first time I saw a shadow vessel it sent a little chill up my spine. When the President was assasinated I was like goddamn it don't let those bastards get away with that ****. The only recent Sci-Fi that equates is Farscape and potentially the new BG. Sorry trekkies.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Saint Marcus
|
 |
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
B5 is quite a good show. However, it has some serious flaws and many things weren't handled very well. Season 1 was god awful, but season 2 and 3 went really well. Sadly, after that it went downhill fast. The Shadow War left little destruction in it's wake (unlike the Dominion War in DS9, which left all the major powers decimated). No important Centauri, Human or Minbari sites attacked. Only the minor powers (and the Narn, though mostly by the hands of the Centauri and not the shadows directly, save for 3 incidents) suffered. It wasn't a long drawn war of nutrition. Sure it had it's effect on governements and diplomatic relations, but the war itself didn't nearly cause enough devastation as the one a 1000 years prior. Sure some colonies and lesser worlds were blown up. Sure the fleets of some of the lesser powers were decimated, but still. And then B5 suddenly turned TNG, where Sheridan/Delenn/Lorien managed to talk  the Shadows and the Vorlons into making peace and leaving the galaxy! After that episode, things just never were the same again. The war with Earth started out nice, but then resulted in another cop out when Clark's Advanced Destroyer Fleet, build with Shadow technology, got annihilated in the first episode they appeared in. And worse, they got annihilated by a bunch of whitestars, who were fewer in numbers and less in firepower. The tech-level of the shadow-earth vessels and the vorlon-minbari ships should have been roughly the same, yet still the white stars destroyed all clark's advanced destroyers and starfuries, and many white stars survived the engagement. And other than in that one episode...those scary looking destroyers never appeared again. Those two things ruined season 4 for me. And season 5 was only slightly better than season 1.
A second problem I have with B5 is the constantly changing cast.
Lt. Cmdr. Laurel Takashima, Carolyn Sykes, Dr. Benjamin Kyle and Del Varner left after the pilot.
Lyta Alexander left after the pilot, but returned a few season later.
Na'toth left in season 2 I believe.
Marcus appeared in season 3, got killed in season 4.
Talia Winters left. (she was turned into a super telepath, but was replaced anyways. Lyta returned, and in turn was made a super telepath. What a joke)
Jeff Sinclair left.
Susan left.
Kosh got killed.
Lochley appeared in season 5.
etc.
Still, I enjoyed B5 tremendously. Sadly, it didn't live up to it's full potential. DS9, especcially towards the end, was better.
Last edited by Saint Marcus on 28-05-2004 at 15:51
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Pax
|
|
DS9 great show.
Good points about B5.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DRoseDARs
|
 |
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:36
|
|
In defence of the Shadow War story arc:
President Clark had made a deal with the Shadows, so that's why Earth and her colonies weren't attacked and the Centauris were being manipulated by the Shadows through emperors Cartacio and Molari. The Vorlon planetkiller that nearly got Centauri Prime answered a call for reinforcements at the very last moment (the final battle with the Shadows and Sherridan's fleet). Some minor races likewise cut deals with sides to save their hides (just like 1000 yrs ago) while others were simply anihalated. The Minbari had a sizable fleet (both regular navy and Whitestar fleet), so they were a less tempting target among so many soft ones. The Narns were still militarily devastated from the Centauri occupation, the rebellion against them, the war with them, and the second occupation. Hardly made them a threat to anyone; could only manage a few ships to fight for Sherridan. And the rest of the minor races were ... well, minor. Sherridan had forced the Shadows' and Vorlons' hand a little earlier than either race had wanted and the Shadows had to make up for it by coercing more allies. And remember: Sherridan had to trick both sides into attending the same party in order to get them to actually fight each other. This meant previously either race FAR outgunned anyone in earlier battles. Soft targets = shorter, unimpressive battles.
As for the ending...what can I say? Old races, like old people, are easily tricked into things.  Sherridan was selling snake-oil and they bought it. He even had a celebrity endorsement a la Lorean (aka THE First One) to hype the product.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Saint Marcus
|
|
Scio Me Nihil Scire
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
|
|
Thanks for your response 
I understand why none of the main powers was directly attacked, and why a lot of the minor ones were saved. My point is, if Sheridan didn't pull his stunt (and for the sake of convincing plot developments, he shouldn't have), then the war would have gone on and many more would have died and the galaxy would have been devestated, just like a 1000 years ago. However, the war ended prematurely, sadly. After the war 1000 years ago, the Minbary empire was in ruins. Other powers too, presumably. However, after this war, only a handful of small powers felt the direct effects of the war, while none of the bigger powers were directly effected (except for a handful of incidents). Because of the early ending of the war, this made sense. As you wrote in your post. My problem is that the whole leaving the galaxy thing sucked. It robbed B5 of the mystery of the first ones. It robbed B5 of a clear "big bad" (none of the future enemies came close to the shadows). It robbed the B5 of a satisfying and hard fought victory in the Shadow War. And it robbed us viewers of many many great war episodes. We had a great build up of the war. We had a promissing beginning of the war...and then it stopped. The war had no middle, and no real ending.
After the first big counter attack in the final ep of season 3, things ended really quickly. 6 eps later, and the war was over. Just like that. DS9 handed the war better. After the first big counter attack by the Federation and Klingons, the war went on for another 40 eps! And although not all those eps were equally good, most were excellent and gave us many great war episodes. By the end of the arc, we had a real sense of closure and accomplishment and loss. The Shadow War arc provided none of that. And that, for me, felt like a huge disappointment.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
GePap
|
 |
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
|
|
There was a significant difference between B5 and DS9- B5 lacked sure support from its producers-To me, JSM's orirignal plan would have had the Shadow war end much later if not by the end of season 4-when season 4 begun he had no guarantee he would make it to 5, so he had to rush most of the story - then season 5 came and they main story as done with, so one was left with nothing to do.
As for other points:
Staff turnover-so what? People die, specially in wars. MIlitary people are at the mercy of the higher ups- the fact is that the stability of ST crews is the anomily, not the fact an Ambassador might change attaches.
You ignore that nature of the Shadow war and why it could end as it did. The fact is Sheridan had no hope of beating the Vorlons or Shadows militarily. The dominion and the Federation were almost equivalent technologically. The first ones were vastly ahead in technology and could have swept aside all the younger races without serious threat-even after Sheridan assembles his great fleet, without the last other first ones the Vorlons could have blown the planet up, no problem. Second, the Shadow cloud could have destroyed his entire fleet without impunity. You also ignore the reasons for the war-the Vorlons and Shadows were using the other races as puppets, pawns in their own game-their internal debate. Neither side is good-they are both simply carrying out an old grudge against each other through proxy, being unwilling to risk fighting each other openly. So the only solution open to the younger races is to convince the two sides this game won't go on any further. Talking his way out was THE ONLY way Sheridan could win-the force of arms was not possible.
As for levels of destruction- The levels of destruction for the Shadow war are much heavier-whole planets and many colonies gone. In DS9 the powers were exhausted- in B5 there was the chance of them being wiped out utterly Maybe it escapes my mind, but how many homeworlds suffered planetary bombardment? I would add the fact that technology levels in B5 are much lower in general than those in Trek.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
GePap
|
|
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
there are weapons, however, by ds9's period, that can destroy whole worlds. one was used by the klingons, iirc, in "the race"; in voy on the other side of the galaxy (the delta quadrant seems to be a bit more primitive) as the metrion cascade, of which neelix is one survivor; there's the tox uthat (sp?); trilithium missiles as seen in generations... and so on.
most of them were not used because apparently, there's a gentleman's agreement for that sort of thing. nobody wants to use the nukes. |
Well, see, that is the difference-tech in ST is such that those types of weapons are reality vanity weapons- you have transposters, photon torpedos and so firth that allow you to pinpoint targets on the ground. Of course you also have anti-matter which can be used all sort of nasty ways.
But no one in Trek really does it. IN B5 the Centauri openly just used brute planetary bombardment.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36.
Apolyton Time is 00:36. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
28-05-2004 03:33
|