02-06-2004 19:38									#61
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk ...and since they know it's Atkins, they know it's as good as Atkins, and since I'm willing to sell it for, oh, say, a quarter of the price of his book, they'll save some bucks and buy mine!

The answer is, yes, you could do that. You have to put it entirely in your own words, however. Since you're a no-name nobody and don't have a publisher, I doubt you'd b able to do more than create a little pamphlet, but even that won't beat out the free Atkins websites. You can get all the information you want at atkins.com, without having to pay. I see no reason anyone would invest in your scheme.

	02-06-2004 19:39									#62
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Go over there and tell her yourself.

I'm not registering on Counterglow. It's bad enough I'm addicted to Poly. Let her come register here.

	02-06-2004 19:51									#63
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The heart is a muscle. Muscles can burn carbs, but they can also burn fat. The only two types of cells that require carbohydrates to have energy are nerve cells and red blood cells. Every other cell can burn fat and protein in addition to carbohydrates.

Induction is a two week process, not a several week process.

The rest of that post is pure garbage. She continues to go on about a 15 carb day, when there is no such thing. She also introduces a 60 carb max day, which I have no idea where she pulled that from, except maybe her ass. She still persists in arguing that the diet keeps you in ketosis even when you reach stage four, which simply isn't true.

This, in fact, is the true danger of Atkins. People who think they know what the diet is, based on BS assumptions like this person, then go off and try and do something like limit yourself to 15 carbs a day and eat no veggies, etc.

Do some friggan research before venting about a subject on which you have no information.

	02-06-2004 20:12									#64
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Two studies came out recently in which groups on Atkins were compared to groups on other diets. One of the surveys was paid for by the Atkins' people but the other was entirely independant. Both were conducted by respected people.

To my surprise they both show Atkins to be beneficial. Speaking from memory, early weight loss was much higher on Atkins but that tailed off so that after about a year the other group were losing weight marginally quicker. But on a whole battery of health checks the Atkins dieters were doing better than the others. Again from memory, arterial obstruction was one of the things tested and the Atkins group did substantially better on that one.

It was probably a Times article where I saw this. But I can't now remember that for sure. (Had it said one group or the other had less memory impairment then I think my lifetime of freedom from diets would have had to come to an end )

I was pretty sceptical about Atkins but the article I read discussing these results said that the medics, dieticians and other informed folk who had also been expressing scepticism are mostly coming round to the belief that the insight which led to the development of the Atkins diet is turning out to be sound.

I have never dieted in my life and have no present intention to do so. But the stuff from the two studies was persuasive enough so that if I found reason to do so it would be the Atkins diet which I rather think I would go for.

	02-06-2004 21:23									#65
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You lose more weight on Atkins to begin with as you are losing muscle mass as well. Which is something you definitely do not want to be doing unless you're a real bulky female.

	02-06-2004 21:52									#66
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"carbs"

	02-06-2004 22:24									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue You lose more weight on Atkins to begin with as you are losing muscle mass as well. Which is something you definitely do not want to be doing unless you're a real bulky female.

youll lose muscle mass if you just sit around and diet, but how is that different from being a regular couch potato? If you work out simultaneously, you will build muscle mass, I certainly have.

	02-06-2004 22:47									#68
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Can someone post reputable websites or journal articles contrary to Atkins' findings. And I don't mean from a text book or from someone's memory. Thanks

	03-06-2004 00:11									#69
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Asleepatthewheel - as far as I am remember, there are no reputable studies yet into actual whole diets. Individual foods, sure. But people's interpretation of a "diet" are so different that there's too much randomness in there.

	03-06-2004 01:51									#70
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All I know is that my personal experiences with Atkins were very good.

Over 15 soldiers in my unit went on Atkins (by the book) and we all lost a lot of fat. Not sure if we lost muscle mass but in 30 days I lost 17 pounds, dropped my 2-mile run time from 22 min to 17:39, and increased my push up and sit up score on the Army Physical Fitness Test by over 20% each.

The first two weeks I felt very sluggish and tired, but around day 12 I started having a lot more energy than I had before going on the diet. We had a lot of other soldiers go on the Atkins diet and I don't know of anyone of them that had bad experiences.

And like chegitz, Park Avenue, and Ted said, Atkins isn't anti-Carb its more of a "quality carb" diet. You can eat healthy useful carbs that have vitamins but the useless ones like white bread and potatoes you rarely ever eat.

Go Dr. Atkins

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 03-06-2004 at 02:42

	03-06-2004 02:41									#71
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara This, in fact, is the true danger of Atkins. People who think they know what the diet is, based on BS assumptions like this person, then go off and try and do something like limit yourself to 15 carbs a day and eat no veggies, etc. Do some friggan research before venting about a subject on which you have no information.

Perhaps that is true -- that all the anti-Atkins knee-jerk rhetoric is to be blamed for people who are doing the Atkins diet the wrong way.

	03-06-2004 02:57									#72
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to stupid man suing: well you dope! What did you expect would happen when you eat nothing but bacon, fat, steak, eggs, and other assorted crap.

The only thing worth learning from Dr. Atkins is that we should eat less "bad carbs" like sugar and processed starches... and more good carbs like wheat products, brown rice, veggies, and fruits.

But cutting down on all carbs across the board is just plain stupid.

	03-06-2004 07:50									#73
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whats with the need to go on any kind of retarded diet anyway?

drop the ****ing spoon. stop shoveling ice cream in your mouth.

	03-06-2004 08:19									#74
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel youll lose muscle mass if you just sit around and diet, but how is that different from being a regular couch potato?

A regular couch potato doesn't diet.

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel If you work out simultaneously, you will build muscle mass, I certainly have.

In this case, you don't need to diet at all. In fact, you need more food.

	03-06-2004 08:25									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger A regular couch potato doesn't diet.

True, of course I was referring to those who just diet and don't exercise. You know there are people like that, don't you ;0

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger In this case, you don't need to diet at all. In fact, you need more food.

first things first, I need rid of these extra pounds. Plus I have a tendency of falling off the wagon wrt exercising. Pure laziness, but the summer brings more workouts, nothing on TV and a gym within half a block (at my apt. complex, a decent all around 24 hour facility, in door pool, racquetball, free )

	03-06-2004 08:40									#76
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel True, of course I was referring to those who just diet and don't exercise. You know there are people like that, don't you ;0

Yeah, my sister

* Urban Ranger looks for incoming shoes

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel first things first, I need rid of these extra pounds. Plus I have a tendency of falling off the wagon wrt exercising. Pure laziness, but the summer brings more workouts, nothing on TV and a gym within half a block (at my apt. complex, a decent all around 24 hour facility, in door pool, racquetball, free )

Swimming is an excellent exercise. Trains both muscles and the cardiopulmonary system at the same time.

	03-06-2004 09:15									#77
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Vegetarians tend to be furry, live in trees, and live to be about 40 years of age. They are usually hunted and killed for their meat, called bushmeat, or die of disease resulting from their poor diet. Their brains are small: how challenging is it to pick fruit from a vine? They spend their meaningless lives hunting for berries and nuts.

Meat eaters are healthy and strong, live in cities, and have been known to live past 100 years. They are the hunters. They create beautiful art, music, and a unique culture that no other animal can compete with. Their brains are large and their thinking crafty, developed for hunting. They spend their meaningless lives posting on Apolyton.

	03-06-2004 09:37									#78
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm not registering on Counterglow. It's bad enough I'm addicted to Poly. Let her come register here.

Coward.

Use Theben's handle.

	03-06-2004 09:42									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Swimming is an excellent exercise. Trains both muscles and the cardiopulmonary system at the same time.

	03-06-2004 10:08									#80
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin Vegetarians tend to be furry, live in trees, and live to be about 40 years of age.

quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin Meat eaters are healthy and strong, live in cities, and have been known to live past 100 years.

Actually, meat eaters tend to have shorter natural life spans than veggie eaters.

	03-06-2004 11:09									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Stem cells can cure diabetes and more

Stem cells

	03-06-2004 15:54									#82
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin Vegetarians tend to be furry, live in trees, and live to be about 40 years of age.... Their brains are small: how challenging is it to pick fruit from a vine? Meat eaters are healthy and strong, live in cities... They create beautiful art, music, and a unique culture that no other animal can compete with. Their brains are large and their thinking crafty, developed for hunting.

Funny that, I always thought it was the development of agriculture that was attributed to the rise of modern civilization.


No, if you want to attribute human traits to meat-eating, you'd have better luck looking towards war, rascism, and misogyny.

	03-06-2004 22:12									#83
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quote: Vegetarians tend to be furry, live in trees, and live to be about 40 years of age. They are usually hunted and killed for their meat, called bushmeat, or die of disease resulting from their poor diet. Their brains are small: how challenging is it to pick fruit from a vine? They spend their meaningless lives hunting for berries and nuts.

That was awesome

	03-06-2004 22:14									#84
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This thread is very interesting and I'd like to try the diet by myself and eventually come up with the results.. any suggestion? Oh and I can read the site by myself so motivate me with else

	04-06-2004 01:36									#85
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Here is some research in support of Atkins. Like most research, these tend to be narrowly focused. I challenge Atkins-bashers to post similar published research in support of their views.

Comparing low fat and low carb, a Duke University study.
Another one, a University of Cincinnati study
And another, a University of Pennsylvania study
Low-carb and cholesterol, a Mayo Clinic study

There are many many more. I invite people to investigate for themselves what actual research has discovered instead of just taking some person's opinion on the matter. Frankly, one of the things that attracted me to the Atkins diet in the first place was the extensive bibliography of cited research. How many other diets have anything even close to this?

	04-06-2004 04:43									#86
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quote: Originally posted by King of Rasslin Vegetarians tend to be furry, live in trees, and live to be about 40 years of age. They are usually hunted and killed for their meat, called bushmeat, or die of disease resulting from their poor diet. Their brains are small: how challenging is it to pick fruit from a vine? They spend their meaningless lives hunting for berries and nuts. Meat eaters are healthy and strong, live in cities, and have been known to live past 100 years. They are the hunters. They create beautiful art, music, and a unique culture that no other animal can compete with. Their brains are large and their thinking crafty, developed for hunting. They spend their meaningless lives posting on Apolyton.

The largest of the primate relatives of our ancestors, australopithicus robustus, was a vegetarian, and quite large and healthy.

The earliest civilizations existed almost exclusively on vegetarian diets (the average Sumerian ate only bread and onions). Meat was eaten only very rarely, and solely as a religious practice. These civilizations were thriving while meat-eating barbarians were stuck stinking up the backwaters of the world.

	04-06-2004 06:16									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue You lose more weight on Atkins to begin with as you are losing muscle mass as well.

Not true. You're losing water bound up with glycogen (?), about ten pounds or so. Generally within the week you switch to ketosis and start burning fat. You only burn muscle when you are starving (which you are not doing on Atkins) or have run out of fat to burn (like a long distance runner) and you only lose muscle from not excercising, unless you have a disease.

	04-06-2004 09:05									#88
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Here is some research in support of Atkins. Like most research, these tend to be narrowly focused. I challenge Atkins-bashers to post similar published research in support of their views. Comparing low fat and low carb, a Duke University study. Another one, a University of Cincinnati study And another, a University of Pennsylvania study Low-carb and cholesterol, a Mayo Clinic study There are many many more. I invite people to investigate for themselves what actual research has discovered instead of just taking some person's opinion on the matter. Frankly, one of the things that attracted me to the Atkins diet in the first place was the extensive bibliography of cited research. How many other diets have anything even close to this?

Your challenge has been delivered.

	04-06-2004 09:05									#89
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...and, believe me, it wasn't easy.

	04-06-2004 09:33									#90
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Do you actually have your own thoughts on this MM, or are you just a parrot?