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The Mad Monk
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of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:36
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This is a damn good thread on the topic:
http://www.counterglow.com/forum/sh...&threadid=21200
quote:
Atkins is the low low carb diet. Basicly 15g of carbs a day. Most people go with red meat, but there are alternatives.
As for Diabetes, one form is due to low-nonexistant levels of insulin, or resistance to insulin causing the body to elieve none is present. The mantra os the Atkins diet is to get rid of insulin because it causes you to be fat. Atkins is a diet that causes the body to mimic diabetes. You lose weight because youa re SICK. Not to mention the numerous side effects of diabetes.
The reason why you lose weight is that whent he body is deprived of carbohydrates and only gets protein and fats it panics. Why? the brain cannot use fats or protein. A common misconception about atkins is that the protien and fats are being converted into sugars. Well, humans cannot change fats into sugars, at all. Also some amino acids (that make up proteins) cannot be changed into sugars in any way. There are some that can be changed into creb's intermeddiates, converted too oxaloacetate and then feed into gluconeogenesis though.
So, what we have is this.
Brain and heart starving. Tons of fat present, protein present.
Response:
a- the body breaks down lean muscle mass to very inefficiently make some glucose. This causes high nitrogen waste levels in the blood, stess on the liver, weakening of muscles (and rapid weight loss since muscles weigh more than fat!)
b- The body poduces ketones as the alternate fuel for the brain. 2 in particular. One of these is acetone, NAIL POLISH REMOVER. The brain and heart can use both of these and does so in starvation states. The problem? It kills cells damaging the brain, but you stay alive. High levels of ketones change blood pH levels and cause systemic problems.
There is a reason that diabetics monitor their blood ketone levels closely. But Atkin's honestly claims that this ketosis is natural, and therefore harmless unlike in diabetes.
Atkins is looking into a breath spray (no joke) to mask the offensive odor caused by these chemicals seeping out of mucus membranes (hense why diabetics in shock smell as if they have been drinking)
Then there are about 100 other major problems, but why bother?
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The Mad Monk
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of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:36
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Give me some peer-reviewed references here. Or a good survey book/article.
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Any general Biochem textbook should have all the information you need. The Stryer book is more up to date, but I prefer the Zubay. The Lippincott book is a condensed (dumbed down) book aimed at med students and iirc has quite a bit of extra material relating to this but I ahve not lookeda t it in a couple years.
Topics are Crebs cycle, Amino acid catabolism (Ketogenic and Glucogenic), fatty acid catabolism, d-3 Hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate. Beyond that the chapters on diabetes, insulin, etc that are in every biochem book.
I would be happy to expalin in brief any of the pathways or walk through anythng you want. I have been forced to teach biochem 2 years now .
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I don't see what the big deal is. You want to loseweight so you reduce calories below what is needed by the body and it converts fat. Avoiding carbs is fine. Are there any required carbs the way there are essential amino acids, fatty acids, or vitamins?
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Carbs are required because certain tissues cannot use fats or protien (amino acids) for energy. the brain being the best example. They are not "essential" because the body can make carbs needed from the breakdown products of other carbohydrates, and there are pathways that allow some amino acids to be changed into intermediates that can be used in the Creb's cycle to make oxaloacetate to feed into producion of glucose, but the system is inefficient, has toxic by-products, and in mammalian systems some of the enzymes needed for certain amino acids are missing.
In a starvation situation the body uses one of these pathways to provide enough glucose to form metabolic intermediates, and the sugars needed for glycoprotiens, and structural units. Not for fuel.
There is nothing wrong with limiting carbs, but if you are not getting enough to fuel your heart, brain, etc, as with the Atkins and South Beach diets there is a problem.
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Originally posted by Help TCO
I haven't seen any scientific proof that the massive protein intake that lifters take is needed. I have a pretty good lifting book by a Ph.D. physiologist who says that that is all silliness from the supplements industries. That a normal (maybe a tad over RDA) protein supply is sufficient.
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It isn't required and actually inhibits formation of lean muscle. What it does do is aid in sheer bulk. If doing lifting you do require a little more protien than normal just to repair th damage done each session, but professionals do super high levels of protien, its unhealthy for their bodies and the kidney stones won't help, but it works. |
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Mad Monk
This is a damn good thread on the topic: |
If that's an example of the thread's content, I wouldn't bother reading it.
#1, the absolute minimum grams of net charbohydrates a day one takes in is 20, not 15. This period, called induction, lasts only two weeks, in order to get your body to use up its reserve glucose. Of course, everyone who has an agenda against the diet ascts as if induction were the only thing to Atkins there is.
In the second stage, ongoing weight loss, aka, owl, you raise the amount of net carbs/per day by five each week until you reach a point where you are losing about 1-2 pounds a week.
For some people, that could be rather high, like 60 net carbs a day. For others, like me, it's rather low, about 25 net carbs a day.
In the final fourth stage of Atkins, you raise you intake of net carbs until you reach a level of equilibrium. This is often over 95 netcarbs a day.
In all levels of the diet, you are required to undergo excercise.
I question the intelligence of any person who goes on Atkins to lose eight pounds!!!!! This is not a skinny person's diet.
You are supposed to see a doctor while you are on the diet, because not all people are the same. A few people will see a rise in cholestoral. Most, independent studies have shown according to Consumer Reports, see a drop in their bad cholestoral. I've seen an overall drop of about 30 points.
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Dr Strangelove
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Where did you get the idea that the human body can't convert fats into glucose? If that were true then there wouldn't be any practical reason for using fat as a means to store energy! Anyway, it's false. The liver is quite adept at converting triglycerides into glucose.
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31-05-2004 13:38
It's right in the book. 
That's why you're supposed to be under a doctor's care. 
It keeps you going, you don't have to worry about diseases and all that nasty stuff you get from meat, and it keeps you fit. A few months after becoming vegetarian, I had to buy a belt to keep my pants up. Now, about two-three years after, I've had to poke another hole in my belt. (And no, I'm not all skin and bones. My pants are just big - I never thought of myself as fat, but damn. )
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