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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
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Originally posted by Havak
Clive’s genius will turn things around (note irony button still fully switched on here). |
No, that transcends irony, heading towards that which had Iraq bristling with WMDs and involved in 9/11.
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No if I was feeling nasty I would constantly use the RWC, and who won it, as a blunt instrument.  |
Feel free! Past glories are always worth a re-visit. RWC, Mafekig, the list is endless. 
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And that will not be enough. If you want a decent game from them phone Clive and ask if you can borrow 22 England shirts – that will get them going nicely. |
Yes, England and Scotland could swap shirts. Guaranteeing England would play in a manner befitting the colours. 
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It’s clear the ARU is not prepared to give up on the investment in Sailor just yet. It may be he does well against the Scots again – and probably us – but when he comes up against the ABs and they are punting the ball in space behind him it could be fun. |
All of that, plus Rathbone is the future, Wendell isn't. I notice Mark Gerard wasn't considered because of fitness.
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How about the return Ireland-Boks game? |
I wish I'd seen the second half of the first match. Ireland certainly looked classier. I don't know what happened. I read something about them stuffing up tactically, playing to Bok strengths, letting that huge Bok lock - the one who bit and gouged Brendan Canon last year - run rampant. If Ireland stick to playing through the skipper, they should win.
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And Wales-Argentina – I’m a Puma fan there naturally. |
I suppose the worry is that both teams might discover the word "defence" in their tactics manual and play a stinker.
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Ones things for sure another weekend of SH Whitewashes will undo much of the good work of the last four years - and risk allowing Kiwis to drift into another comfort zone of confident believed pre-eminence maybe? Perhaps?  |
Comfort zone? That implies a territory out of which they could be shocked. Who do you suggest might be capable of doing the shocking?
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And where are France when the home nations are putting it on the line at the end of a long season? |
Where else? Comparing barrettes! 
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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:36
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Well we made it to Thursday before conclusive proof that the ABs cheated came from the England camp.
England forward coach Andy Robinson, a renowned analyst, said the lineout was a key area of the first Test where the All Blacks were given excessive freedom.
"They didn't win lineout ball in the air against us, they won it because of the way they took out the lifters and interfered with the jumpers," he said.
"Clearly we want that refereed and clearly we've got to look at that area ourselves. In the end it's about being streetwise."
Well he is right of course – although I doubt you would get a Kiwi to ever admit they are ever less than saintly in the way they play the game – but it’s part and parcel of the game and the England forwards should have been capable of handling it. the fact of the line out is that Grewcock and Borthwick had poor games. Brave in hindsight for Clive to rest the out of form Kay as Kay has run that line out for years – and without him it suddenly looked a bit naive?
Nice to see Marshall suddenly talking like they can take apart any team by just throwing it wide though isn’t it. Worked well against the Wallabies last time I seem to recall.
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provided the current holder does not let it fade away. |
Several problems are afflicting us Tamerlin – mounting two tours at once was not a problem last year but this time the personnel split between them seems to have been wrong. Add in a coach with a god complex developing (who rested key players on a whim), several young stars injured and unable to go (Smith, Moody, Forrester…), the absence of a towering skipper and the missing points machine that converted 90% of penalties in the oppo half to points and it’s all a bit glum.
But apart from all that we are in rude health.
The Kiwi forwards were outstanding by recent standards – a performance full of niggle, power and ‘art’ (or craftiness). At the same time England’s pack were awful – so the mixture of the two got embarrassing.
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No, that transcends irony.. |
Pure fantasy then?
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Feel free! Past glories are always worth a re-visit. RWC, Mafekig, the list is endless. |
Cardiff?
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Yes, England and Scotland could swap shirts. Guaranteeing England would play in a manner befitting the colours. |
Lots of effort and little skill? Well we got that half right last week – just didn’t put enough effort in as well.
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I notice Mark Gerard wasn't considered because of fitness. |
Not quite as black as you feared then? I’m sure vunder-Bok will replace Sailor at some point in the game.
Hmm I don’t enjoy that as much now we filed our own Boks and Aussies. And look how much they have improved us.
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If Ireland stick to playing through the skipper, they should win. |
The mess up front surprised me a little – the combination of O’Connell and O’Kelly is pretty damn good in the second row but they struggled in the set pieces. They are perhaps a little lacking in the front row – and as we all know rely on tenuous exiles for the back rows slots quite a lot.
BOD given free reign can cut a team to pieces though – and he looks in better form than the 6N. The problem is the fullback was injured last week and the team has been tinkered with. They are playing the big wing Horgan at 12 meaning BOD goes to 13 (not as bad as it sounds – Horgan has played 12 a lot). Murphy moves from left to his preferred right wing.
If the Lions were picked now Murphy would be in the test side I think – playing very well (and that is with a metal pin in his leg).
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Comfort zone? That implies a territory out of which they could be shocked. Who do you suggest might be capable of doing the shocking? |
They are a damn good side – but any of the top five sides can beat them. Take them away from NZ – something they are traditionally reluctant to do against top sides – and you take their main advantage away. Having headed north twice in the last two years they seem to have slipped back to insular mode – we need to get them up playing France or England (assuming I am allowed to pick the side rather than Clive).
Personally I believe the ABs will lose on 27th November 2004 when they meet a team I believe to be possibly slightly better than them right now. Guess who? It is not Wales or Italy (why the hell are they wasting time playing those two on an NH tour?). I understand they declined an invitation to play us on the tour meaning we now face Canada and they take on Italy instead. Marvellously exciting fixture compared to the ABs. 
And of course lets not forget the Wallabies. You live with and beat teams you often have no right to on paper – and you do this to the ABs regularly. I wonder how many of that AB side beaten in the semi final really thought before the game that was possible?
I’m also backing the Lions to beat them 3-0. I’m nothing if not optimistic. And assuming we are allowed to extend selection to France of course.
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Plugged the equation into my crappy desktop calculator but it couldn't handle the numbers |
Only a 12 digit display eh?
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Luckily we have enough North Aucklanders to cover for him. |
Be careful – the Aussies are after them too now. Ireland will be picking them next – you only need to have drunk one Guinness to qualify for spiritual residency.
If you saw the Wales-Puma game last weekend your boys will be absolutely salivating at the thought of getting a chance at running at the Pumas defence – it could be three figure score time! Then again it could be that Saturday.
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Andydog
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London
Jan 2001
time: 05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Well we made it to Thursday before conclusive proof that the ABs cheated came from the England camp.
England forward coach Andy Robinson, a renowned analyst, said the lineout was a key area of the first Test where the All Blacks were given excessive freedom.
"They didn't win lineout ball in the air against us, they won it because of the way they took out the lifters and interfered with the jumpers," he said.
"Clearly we want that refereed and clearly we've got to look at that area ourselves. In the end it's about being streetwise." |
Last week our forwards came out with a specific game plan for their tight play. Amongst other things, this involved intimidating Jones in the lineout. Henry realised that Jones would have most of the responsibility for catching in the middle (and he was making the lineout calls), because Grewcock can only really jump at the front and this was already being done by Shaw. Henry also saw that Jones is inexperienced and pathetically skinny. Hence, Robinson ripped his head off a couple of times. 
But I think the tactic that really damaged you lot was our rucking. First, we threw a lot of tight forwards into the rucks. Second, a couple of forwards concerned themselves with playing the ball or the man with the ball, while the rest (usually Robinson and occasionally Gibbes, Heyman and Mealamu) sought to disrupt the English around the ruck formation. They did this by coming round on the wrong side and rucking English players who were standing behind the ruck. We put the English forwards onto the floor by taking out their legs. We Tackled English forwards without the ball, we held onto tackles and put players onto the floor again after they tried to get up.
This ‘scatter’ rucking so screwed up the English defense system that we were were able to quickly get the ball out wide.
Yes a lot of that is illegal, but as you mention Havak, it’s part and parcel of the game and your forwards didn’t adapt and so deserved to get the spanking they did.
Here’s something interesting I read this morning:
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Trouble brews in England camp
There's "trouble at mill" within the visiting England rugby camp.
English premiership and European cup-winning club coach and former Waikato All Black Warren Gatland has told the Waikato Times that players are unhappy in the English setup under Sir Clive Woodward.
A barbecue earlier in the week with England players from Gatland's London Wasps club had revealed an unhappy bunch, frustrated by over-coaching from a vast array of specialist support staff.
"They are frustrated. They have about 19 coaching staff and they were saying they have so many meetings they almost have meetings about meetings," said Gatland, who is home on a holiday break.
Eight players from Wasps, whom Gatland guided to their second Zurich premiership title in England and a first-time victory in Europe's Heineken Cup, are in the tour party and six are due to start against the All Blacks in the second test at Auckland's Eden Park on Saturday night.
However, Gatland said Woodward had selected a much stronger test team second time around.
Gatland has also hinted he may cut short his remaining two-year contract with Wasps and return to New Zealand permanently next year, coaching in either Waikato or Auckland. |
I'm not reading too much into this - the poms just had their arses handed to them on a plate and were probably still fuming after seeing exactly how crap they were on video, but they shouldn't really have been moaning to Warren about it, in spite of him being their club Boss and a mate.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Jones was a huge weakness |
Nancy. Can't even throw a decent punch.
EDIT. The Scotland skipper will play after all. His injury was poetic justice. Shoulder charged David Lyons square in the moosh, hurt his own hip in the process. D*ckhead.
Last edited by finbar on 17-06-2004 at 17:36
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
It is that hindsight thing again – on reflection their crushing pool games achieving a negative net result for them. I'm sure overconfidence raised it's ugly head. |
Well, the foundations of their whole game were built on sand, weren't they. It's very very early days yet, obviously, but there's promise of something better than sand.
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Recommending Chopin after a doco on Paul Weller – could you be a bit blunter of what it was you were saying there please? |
Well, honestly. He filled a niche, I suppose. Give me the Clash and Sex Pistols. But Chopin above all of them.
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Pansy in fact – who injures their hip dropping the shoulder into some doofs gob?
Scott Murray is in fact a nice guy of rugby – |
Only the fact that he went down injured saved him a yellow card, IMHO. It was a blatant, very dangerous offence. Lyons had the ball, trying to break through a couple of tacklers, head exposed, and Murray charged his head with the shoulder. It's only that Lyon's head is concrete that saved him.
Oh, and Peter Fitzsimons has picked England again this week.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Havak
So you are sure Murray was dangerous rather than just over enthusiastic as the weak scots defence bravely tried to hold the Wallabies back? |
I got it wrong. I saw it again tonight. One tackler was hanging off Lyons, not two. Murray came head on, launched himself and shouldered Lyons in the face.
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According to the beeb they still expect Samo to honour his contract – litigation seems inevitable there. |
Oh well, fun and games. The rumor here is that he will be with the Waratahs next season and not the Brumbies.
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It’s hard to predict Rob Andrew but my bet is Burke will go in at fullback most of the time – Falcons have Noon and Stephenson on their books (both with the team in Canada) and when Wilkinson is actually fit Walder tends to cover Centre positions too. |
Oh well, he'll be more than serviceable at full back. Handy back up kicker, too.
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Cheers Finbar – that matches what I have heard from others. Patty Howard thinks the lad has just the right combination of penetration and pace – and I guess if anyone will bring the best out of him it’s Pat. |
Having thought about it, I saw him a couple of times late in the Highlanders' season. He's very quick. Saw him score a scintillating try. But he does go missing. I suspect there's half a dozen like him in the Kiwi S12 teams. Big, quick wingers from North Auckland aren't exactly hens' teeth.
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I do wonder if the Fijian lad knows what it is like playing on an English pitch in January though. |
As, thankfully, Samo will never discover.
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His style will suit English rugby."
Now what is he trying to say there? |
Possibly that he peaked in 2003? Never to rise again?
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All three Tigers lads start against the Maori – Jonno junior and especially Chuter impressed the coaches when they came on last weekend – Deacon being a fixture of course. If Chuter keeps his current momentum with the way his game is improving he may figure in the senior squad by the time the Wallabies arrive in the autumn – he is certainly more impressive than the dropped lardo at the moment. |
So how does it feel not to see [Tigers] after a player's name in the England team?
Actually, I know how how feel. I'm just reminding you.
*Havak's coffee mug goes flying*
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Caligastia
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Are we still doing the civ gold betting thing? I think I owe you 10 for the super 12 final Finbar. What kind of margin should we be giving England this weekend?
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17-06-2004 02:59
This game could have been so much closer....
) the referee has not helped Bourgoin, struck as he was by a kind of selective blindness in favor of Paris. Before the last try of the Parisians, for example, he thus ignored a late tackle and a contact from the Parisians and sent Péclier to the sin bin for a late tackle on Dominici in the same action. 
) or other comes along to change my mind. 
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