11-06-2004 08:38									#31
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Whatever happened with Cho, the Asian chick? Did they have a falling away? It's been a while for me, refresh my memory.

	11-06-2004 08:40									#32
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Do they have a Defense against the Dark Arts professor that's not cursed or evil in some way?

	11-06-2004 08:41									#33
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Gilderoy Lockhart wasn't exactly cursed, or evil.

	11-06-2004 08:44									#34
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If that's the guy from the second book, he tried to lobotomize Harry & Ron.

	11-06-2004 08:51									#35
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Movies 1-3.

Ah. So there's some things that the director didn't really make clear that I need to tell you about.

Here's a short summary of important things learned in PoA. Some of this is in the movie, some can be inferred, and some is basically missing completely from the movie.


When James Potter went to school, he was good friends with Lupin, Sirius Black, and Peter Pettigrew. Together, they learned how to become Animagi: people who can transmogrify themselves into animals. Sirius could become a dog, Pettigrew could become a rat. This is unclear from the movie, but James could become a stag. That's why Harry's Patronus was a stag. Lupin, of course, was a werewolf. This wasn't something he learned, obviously, but it's still kind of an animal thing. So there's a werewolf, a rat, a dog, and a stag. They developed nicknames for each other based on those transformations: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs. If you remember from PoA, those were the people who made the Marauder's Map.

Now, when they graduated, they still remained friends. James married Lily, and Sirius was the best man at their wedding. When Voldemort rose to power, for some reasons, which remain unclear, even as of book 5, Voldemort very much wanted to kill the Potters. And when Voldemort wanted to kill someone, he generally managed it. So the Potters used a very powerful charm to keep him from finding them. I forget the exact name, but it's a secret keeping charm. Where the Potters were hiding could not be discovered without the consent of a single person, the Secret Keeper. They wanted Sirius to be the Secret Keeper, but they decided that it would be too obvious. So instead they secretly made their secret keeper be Wormtail (Pettigrew). However, Wormtail was weak, and he betrayed them them, so Voldemort was able to find and kill the Potters.

	11-06-2004 08:51									#36
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I'm slightly out of practice on HP lore, but I'll give it a shot.

The one too cowardly to return is Karkaroff, and the one who remains the most loyal servant was Barty Crouch Jr. This is quite obvious. I also assumed that the one Voldemort believes has left him forever is Snape.

Yeah. Snape was a Death Eater- he has the tatto and all- and he definitely didn't appear at the circle, since everybody there didn't cover their faces, and he was back at the school. So he must be the one who left forever.

As for Snape being an incredible occlumens, that explains how he spied the first time. After all, he kept track of their movements and sold them out like crazy for a quite reasonable amount of time. The thing is, according to Dumbledore's memories, the trials of Black, Crouch, and so on were rather public affairs. I'm sure that somewhere in Karkaroff's trial (or was it Bagman's?) there they say something along the lines of "Dumbledore has vouched for Snape, and he's turned in evidence against the others- before Voldemort's dissapearance." I can't imagine how those trial records could be that well sealed, judging by the fact they were even letting a young Rita Skeeter attend. Even if they were, certainly Lucius Malfoy could have gotten access to them with his connections.

But we do know that Malfoy still thinks the world of Snape and still considers him an ally. Plus, Voldemort has certainly had time to chat with Malfoy in the events of the fifth book. Why he hasn't ordered Malfoy to kill Snape, or at least not pass sensitive information when he's around... hmm.

This would be so much easier to explain if Snape wasn't a Death Eater with the tatto. But he's gotta be. So I'm going to run with the fact that V says "that I believe has left my service." If Snape runs back and makes up excuses for why he ignored the call of the Dark Mark, maybe he might suceed. Of couse, that doesn't explain how he convinced Malfoy that he was still his buddy in all the years of Voldemort's exile. It's possible that some other magic is involved.

	11-06-2004 08:59									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Whatever happened with Cho, the Asian chick? Did they have a falling away? It's been a while for me, refresh my memory.

She was introduced in book 3, but she wasn't in movie 3 because she wasn't that significant to the story at that time. However, she has been cast for movie 4. The actress cast for the part is named Katie Leung.

Here's what happened with her in books 4 and 5. Spoiler tags inserted for the sake of DD.

spoiler(highlight to read): So in book 4, Harry asks Cho to the Yule Ball, but she's already going with Cedric so she has to refuse. Then at the end Cedric snuffs it, of course. In book 5, Cho kisses Harry under the Mistletoe at Christmas. She says he's very brave for publishing that interview in the Quibbler. But then she gets all weepy about Cedric a bunch of times, which turns him off a little. Then the big fight occurs when Cho's friend, Marietta, snitches to Umbridge about Harry's little anti-Umbridge "club" and they get into a huge fight about that. Also, Cho gets angry at him because she's jealous of Hermione. So then they kind of sour on the whole thing. Rowling has said there will be no more romance with Cho, but that there will be a "little bit" of romance for Harry in book 6.

	11-06-2004 09:03									#38
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire This would be so much easier to explain if Snape wasn't a Death Eater with the tatto. But he's gotta be. So I'm going to run with the fact that V says "that I believe has left my service." If Snape runs back and makes up excuses for why he ignored the call of the Dark Mark, maybe he might suceed. Of couse, that doesn't explain how he convinced Malfoy that he was still his buddy in all the years of Voldemort's exile. It's possible that some other magic is involved.

What's weird is that this part of the story line seems to just freeze in book five. I don't think we see anything about Snape doing anything other than teaching and tutoring Harry in Occlumency.

	11-06-2004 09:20									#39
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Uh... no?

Snape was doing big secret stuff for Dumbledore the whole summer. He was reporting on something to the Order of the Phoenix- Harry said that he had a smirk and was feeling all important. We can only presume it was the spying.

Later on in the school year, he was mostly tied down being the Order's representative at Hogwarts what with Umbridge around. If only Harry had had more sense and figured this out.

	11-06-2004 10:44									#40
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I read OotP nonstop on release day and haven't read it since. Maybe I should go back and look at it. I think I probably missed a lot because I was in a hurry to find out what happens.

	11-06-2004 10:47									#41
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I did that too. I read books 4 and 5 in such a frenzy that I think only about half of them found their way into my long-term memory.

	11-06-2004 11:14									#42
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quote: I assumed, as all of you probably did, that Snape is going back to Voldemort to work as a double agent for Dumbledore.

Who says? Unless we have further proof of it, I'm not going to assume it happens. The one who left forever is Snape. They both know that Voldemort would not accept anyone who didn't answer the Dark Mark.... UNLESS Snape and Dumbledore had already planned to have Snape working in close proximity to Voldemort and thus being the 'most faithful servant'... thus making Crouch the one who left forever, but I doubt it.

quote: if Harry develops a romantic relationship with anyone, I'm betting that it'll be Luna. No other student makes sense to me.

Um... GINNY! It's so obvious... especially since Harry really notices Ginny for the first time in OoTP. She's kind of like Lilly in that she is very confident and won't take crap. Also we can surmise that she is very attractive since a lot of guys want to date her. And finally, it makes perfect sense in the respect that what Harry always wanted was family and the Weasley's have been the closest thing to that... what would be better than actually being part of the family by blood!

quote: Ron and Luna is hinted at far more

Yep. Luna was seriously hitting on Ron. I have a feeling that Luna is only there to racket up the jealousy of Hermione, leading to Ron and Hermione getting together.

	11-06-2004 11:28									#43
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Anyway here is an interesting article on Mugglenet about this passage, which provides a TOTALLY different answer :

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials...ower/nt15.shtml

It also banks on arguments made by others that the Death Eaters named at the end of GoF aren't ALL the DE's in the circle. This argument also says that Snape was one of the unnamed DE's, but I don't buy that.

	11-06-2004 11:41									#44
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And some interesting stuff on Snape:

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials...it-cindy1.shtml

	11-06-2004 11:56									#45
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Those articles are fantastic. Some are more than a little far-fetched, but they're all a good read.

	11-06-2004 12:27									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Um... GINNY! It's so obvious... especially since Harry really notices Ginny for the first time in OoTP. She's kind of like Lilly in that she is very confident and won't take crap. Also we can surmise that she is very attractive since a lot of guys want to date her. And finally, it makes perfect sense in the respect that what Harry always wanted was family and the Weasley's have been the closest thing to that... what would be better than actually being part of the family by blood!

/me agrees with teh Imran

	11-06-2004 12:31									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Anyway here is an interesting article on Mugglenet about this passage, which provides a TOTALLY different answer : http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials...ower/nt15.shtml It also banks on arguments made by others that the Death Eaters named at the end of GoF aren't ALL the DE's in the circle. This argument also says that Snape was one of the unnamed DE's, but I don't buy that.

I read North Tower too. Great column. I think a lot of the columns on Mugglenet are pretty weak, but NT is an exeption.

Snape, IMO, was definitely not there as a DE. Dumbledore gives Snape that speech in the OP well after Harry gets back. So I seriously doubt that Snape was there. So that means he must be the one that "left forever."

I've been rereading OotP tonight, and there's definitely a lot of stuff about Snape, but it's just in passing references and dialogue; there's no real memorable scene, and you don't find out anything about what he's up to. What I presume happened was that Snape returned to Voldemort a little after the graveyard encounter, and used Occlumency to convince Voldemort that he had not deserted him.

	11-06-2004 12:47									#48
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Thank god there are some people who are actually seriously interested in HP. Anyway, what has been bothering me for a few years is..... in SS Snape is confronting Quirrel all over the place and asking him where his allegiances lie etc - all the while little old voldie is on the back of Quirrels head....he must have heard everything. This is why i think that Snape is the one who voldemort thinks has left forever, because he knows what Snape was trying to do in SS.
I could be wrong, but yeah thats what i gathered from it

	11-06-2004 12:47									#49
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quote: So that means he must be the one that "left forever."

Or the faithful servent. Dumbledore and Snape may have been playing the game for a while. But I think Snape is the left forever guy.

	11-06-2004 19:31									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Essayo Thank god there are some people who are actually seriously interested in HP. Anyway, what has been bothering me for a few years is..... in SS Snape is confronting Quirrel all over the place and asking him where his allegiances lie etc - all the while little old voldie is on the back of Quirrels head....he must have heard everything. This is why i think that Snape is the one who voldemort thinks has left forever, because he knows what Snape was trying to do in SS. I could be wrong, but yeah thats what i gathered from it

That would make obvious sense. Wonder why I forgot.

	11-06-2004 19:42									#51
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How many books have come out at this point. I've read 1 - 3. Don't think I got around to 4 yet.

-Arrian

	11-06-2004 19:53									#52
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5

	11-06-2004 19:57									#53
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Hmm, note to self: get book 4 from library.

Good stuff, HP. I think a lot of people have a kneejerk reaction to it as either a) kiddie stuff; b) like Tolkein and therefore crap because they don't like Tolkein; or c) unlike Tolkein and therefore crap because Tolkein is God.

-Arrian

	11-06-2004 20:06									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Anyway here is an interesting article on Mugglenet about this passage, which provides a TOTALLY different answer : http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials...ower/nt15.shtml It also banks on arguments made by others that the Death Eaters named at the end of GoF aren't ALL the DE's in the circle. This argument also says that Snape was one of the unnamed DE's, but I don't buy that.

That article is dumb. The person doesn't even seem to realize that the History of Magic teacher is a ghost.

ACK!

	11-06-2004 20:20									#55
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My impression is that the characters and the idea is running out of steam.

There will be the same problem for Rowling as there was for Conan Doyle - her public will be unwilling for her to stop feeding their appetite.

But I would not bank on too much more. She would not be human if she was not starting to wonder if the stories do not perhaps add up to something a bit more than amusing and mildly querky. In which case she won't want to write the whole thing into irredeemable mediocrity.

	11-06-2004 21:15									#56
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quote: Thank god there are some people who are actually seriously interested in HP. Anyway, what has been bothering me for a few years is..... in SS Snape is confronting Quirrel all over the place and asking him where his allegiances lie etc - all the while little old voldie is on the back of Quirrels head....he must have heard everything. This is why i think that Snape is the one who voldemort thinks has left forever, because he knows what Snape was trying to do in SS. I could be wrong, but yeah thats what i gathered from it

*slaps head* OF COURSE! Essayo, you make a great point which I think makes Snape be the one who has left forever, without a doubt.

	11-06-2004 21:56									#57
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Why are you guys so confident that Snape is on Dumbledore's side? The old man could be wrong, you know. Snape could very well be Voldemort's "most faithful servant"...

	11-06-2004 22:00									#58
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He could, but Dumbledore is also one of the world's best Legilimans. Even though Snape is also a good one, I think Dumbledore is better at it, and thus is better able to read Snape's mind. That, or the Veritaserum could tell which side Snape was on. I don't think Dumbledore blindly trusts Snape.

	11-06-2004 22:11									#59
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That's what would make it such a delicious twist...

	11-06-2004 22:13									#60
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Well if that happens, Snape had better kill Dumbledore, because seeing a pathetic, horribly wrong Dumbledore wouldn't work .

I can't see it happen anyway, though, because if Snape was actually loyal to the Dark Lord, he could have captured Harry SOOOOO many different times and brought him to Voldemort.