11-06-2004 22:22									#61
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Snape may be the insurance policy. In case Voldemort's main plans don't work, Snape is there to make sure things don't go completely wrong. He's also probably pretty valuable as a spy, if still working for Voldemort. You don't waste your number one agent when one of your lackeys should do the trick.

	11-06-2004 22:25									#62
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Why would it be a waste? After the death of Potter, Voldemort knows he can run wild, like he did before... though that brings up another question. What was Dumbledore doing in the First War? If Voldemort was scared of Dumbledore, was Dumbledore simply scared of Voldemort's army?

It also seems Voldemort has the singular goal of killing Harry, so I think he'd take the chance. Especially since he was very able to have other spies in Hogwarts (remember Mad-Eye Moody, ie, Barty Crouch, jr.).

	11-06-2004 22:26									#63
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I don't buy that line of arguement-Voldemort tried rather strenously to kill Harry twice by PoA-I think by then he might have realized there was a problem afoot and brought out all stops to kill him. After all, Voldemort seems to fear Harry more than Dumbledore.

	11-06-2004 22:29									#64
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I think you guys are forgetting the best reason why Snape might be working for Voldemort, ie. it would make for one hell of a story. Don't let logic convince you that a great plot twist is unthinkable. I'm sure Rowling isn't...

	11-06-2004 22:29									#65
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Indeed. Voldemort seems to serious want Harry dead, because Harry caused his downfall. Killing Harry would, among other things, show that the Dark Lord was really back to where he was 15 years ago. Get rid of the guy who knocked you down.

	11-06-2004 22:31									#66
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quote: I think you guys are forgetting the best reason why Snape might be working for Voldemort, ie. it would make for one hell of a story. Don't let logic convince you that a great plot twist is unthinkable. I'm sure Rowling isn't...

Yes, but a main theme in Rowling's books is that we can be redeemed by the choices we make in life. Snape is prime example of someone who was on the wrong side, but through his choices has come to the good side. It shows that people can change and can come to the light. I don't think she'd have Snape turn back again.

I actually think that Snape will die trying to save Harry's life in some fashion. It fits with the whole story of Harry reexamining Snape and his motivations.

	11-06-2004 22:32									#67
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Maybe he's still working for Voldemort, but then he really does go over to the good side at the last minute, Darth Vader stylee. That would make for a ripping yarn and salvage the ***** "redemption" theme...

	11-06-2004 22:34									#68
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I just don't see it. It would require a great leap of faith to accept it. And also Barty Crouch, Jr. doesn't seem to be in the circle of DE's. I think he is actually the faithful one.

	11-06-2004 22:40									#69
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Think about it. Snape is still in Voldemort's inner circle. At the end of Book 7, it is revealed as Snape and Voldie manage to trap Harry and Dumbledore. They're about to get greased and Snape is doing the whole "look at how smart I was, I tricked you, you fool" bullshit that every villian does before they kill someone. Right then, Dumbledore is all like "I knew you were working for Voldemort all the time, Snape. I allowed it because I know that there is good in you, that you can still be redeemed, yadda, yadda, yadda..." Then Snape is all moved and **** and he turns on Voldemort and tosses him down the plasma conduit. And then he dies from the fight, but not before he and Harry makes amends and have one last conversation about the taste of strawberries and cream.

That's ****ing gold and Rowling knows it. You heard it here first...

	11-06-2004 22:41									#70
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.... no.

That is all.

	11-06-2004 22:46									#71
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On second thought, I bet Dumbledore gets capped by Voldemort after his speech to Snape and that's what sets Snape onto the path of redemption. Snape realizes that Dumbledore actually cared about him, enough to accept his own death so that Snape could be redeemed. Then Snape saves Harry and the general gaiety outlined above ensues...

God, this **** just writes itself.

	11-06-2004 22:47									#72
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It's also why you aren't published .

	11-06-2004 22:48									#73
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How do you know?

	11-06-2004 22:50									#74
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Cause I read your posts .

	11-06-2004 22:53									#75
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Touche...

	11-06-2004 23:53									#76
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Snape is clearly not the "most faithful servant."

We know for a fact that Barty Crouch Jr is not in the circle, but he is a DE, and he has obviously been helping Voldemort for almost a year. He obviously can't have been the one who was too cowardly to return, nor is he the one who has left forever, and he's not dead either, so by simple logic he must be the most faithful servant. And remember, you discover Crouch Jr. after the graveyard scene.

So the plot twist with the most faithful servant has already been done. There can be no further argumentation about it.

	11-06-2004 23:58									#77
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Just because Crouch Jr. was a faithful servant doesn't make him the most faithful servant.

	12-06-2004 00:06									#78
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He wasn't at the circle, because he was at Hogwarts.

There were six missing spots. Three were for dead people, one was for the faithful servant, one was for the coward, and one was for the one Voldemort believes left him forever.

You've gotta pick one for Crouch, and only one makes sense.

	12-06-2004 00:33									#79
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I don't think that Snape was asked to go mess with Voldemort again, or that he works as a double agent now. This is because from the end of book 5:

spoiler(highlight to read): When Harry & Co are at the shelves with prophecies, a group of Death Eaters appears. Not all of them, probably, but I'm sure that if Voldemort had Snape among his men, he would want Snape to go there too.

Also, another thing about book 5, major spoiler:

spoiler(highlight to read): Sirius doesn't die from Bellatrix's spell. He falls over into that arch, and that's when he presumably dies - actually, disappears. Dumbledore later calls that room the Chamber of Death. So, they're studying death there. I'm sure that the archway will play a role in 6 and/or 7. It must be somehow connected with either the world of the dead, or killing everyone who passes through it, or something similar.

	12-06-2004 00:42									#80
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Yea. Obviously that room you mention is hugely significant.

	12-06-2004 00:55									#81
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Also, remember, in GoF, during the Yule Ball, Dumbledore mentions that he found a strange room, that turned out to be a luxurious bathroom, when he really needed one? And in book 5, Harry himself says: "Dumbledore told me about it at the Yule ball". So, Rawling clearly is going to use that room I mentioned in previous post.

	12-06-2004 00:57									#82
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The Room of Requirement, I believe it was called.

	12-06-2004 01:06									#83
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In terms of grand conspiracy, that would be making Dumbledore the most faithfull servant of Voldemort that ould be the grand kicker.




I do think thought Dumbledore had something to do with Harry surviving- just being shielded by his parent's love is a bit too sentimental.

	12-06-2004 01:11									#84
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Well Dumbledore did say it formed a magical barrier around him. So perhaps what really happened is that Lilly uttered a spell which protects those who you really love.

	12-06-2004 01:27									#85
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quote: Do they have a Defense against the Dark Arts professor that's not cursed or evil in some way?

Yup, Harry

I try not to think to much into the books. However, Snape is not doing something for Voldemory IMO. I think, Snape is using his abilities to find away to dispose of him forever.. deatheaters, the room, etc. no idea what, but it will require Snape to block off all emotion and confront death itself. He did leave forever, as you all could tell, and Serius will be back, Harry will get with Ginny, and Dumbledore will prove to be something far more incredible than we can imagine.

I could really care less, they are fun books... I think I might have to reread 4 and 5 now though... Thanks!

	12-06-2004 01:29									#86
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Yes, but shielding the ones you love, and being able to strike back at the attacker-that is a mighty powerful spell-I mean, Mrs. Weasley loves all her kids dearly-does that mean they are immune? obviously not-so it most certainly goes beyond just love...

	12-06-2004 01:34									#87
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quote: Yes, but shielding the ones you love, and being able to strike back at the attacker-that is a mighty powerful spell-I mean, Mrs. Weasley loves all her kids dearly-does that mean they are immune? obviously not-so it most certainly goes beyond just love...

Perhaps, but I'm sure a bit part of it was that Lilly died for Harry because of her love; the ultimate sacrifice. Mrs. Weasley is still alive.

Second, the prophecy stated that Harry (or Neville if you want to believe that interpretation ) would be the one who'd stop Voldemort, so I don't think they needed Dumbledore to do anything.

	12-06-2004 01:39									#88
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While we "know" that Harry is not the decendent of Slitherin could be the decendent of one of the other house founders? Who was it that SLitherin got mad at and thus left the school over? Also, why did the sorting hat want to put Harry in Slitherin? Why did ne get put in Griffendor? IMO there is something to the history that has to do with the future, and Dumbledore knows what it is, but is doing nothing to let fate play it out. I think Harry's natural skills has something to do with this, and may parseltongue is not something left on him by Voldamort

	12-06-2004 01:40									#89
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I was under the impression that Dumbledore placed an enchantment over the Dursley's house that protects it, but was only able to do so because of his mother's sacrifice. So really, both Lilly and Dumbledore made the enchantment.

Also, you guys are insane if you think that Ginny and Harry are going to wind up together. There's several clear instances in OotP which show how his feelings have been cemented firmly in friend territory. Besides, if Harry was with Ginny, Ron with Hermione, then it'd all be a bit too "big happy family". A bit too convenient, too easy. I don't think Rowling would do that.

Personally, my bet is on Harry ending up with no one by book 7, staying a bachelor. However, I still stand by my theory that if it's anyone, it'll be Luna. By the end of book 5, she's clearly over Ron, and there are quite a number of textual things which make me feel this way.

Don't force me to quote text!!!

	12-06-2004 01:42									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Perhaps, but I'm sure a bit part of it was that Lilly died for Harry because of her love; the ultimate sacrifice. Mrs. Weasley is still alive. Second, the prophecy stated that Harry (or Neville if you want to believe that interpretation ) would be the one who'd stop Voldemort, so I don't think they needed Dumbledore to do anything.

Well, Voldemort is back thought. So either the prophecy was sort of incomplete, or it speaks about stoping him for good (book 7)