14-06-2004 13:26									#121
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I'm with mono and Snowfire on this one, Luna isn't nearly as loony as she might appear. She's certainly a very unusual girl, but I think there are still a revelation or three to come about her before the series is finished. It's a definite possibility that she could end up with Harry.

And I also think the coolest way for the story to end would be for Harry to have to sacrifice himself to kill Voldemort. It's almost a cliched ending, but I think it'd be really powerful in this case, especially since so many Potter fans are kids who won't have read many stories that didn't end happily-ever-after.

	14-06-2004 15:30									#122
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quote: And I also think the coolest way for the story to end would be for Harry to have to sacrifice himself to kill Voldemort. It's almost a cliched ending, but I think it'd be really powerful in this case, especially since so many Potter fans are kids who won't have read many stories that didn't end happily-ever-after.

A good ending. However, if Dumledore's interpretation of the prophecy is correct (I bet it is), one of them will kill the other. And, therefore, one of them will live.

Actually... that means that both Harry and Voldemort are pretty much invulnerable to anyting else, right? Harry can't die, for instance, in the Forbidden Forest or be killed by one of death eaters, while Voldemort can't be killed by Dumbledore... so that the prophecy be fulfilled?

Also, remember how at the end of OOTP Dumbledore tells Voldemort that there are worse things than death that can happen. Any idea what he was referring to? I'm sure that it's a pretty important statement...

	14-06-2004 17:39									#123
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quote: However, if Dumledore's interpretation of the prophecy is correct (I bet it is), one of them will kill the other. And, therefore, one of them will live.

That doesn't mean that they can't be killed AFTER the prophecy is fulfilled. I mean if Harry kills Voldemort, the prophecy is over, but then he can always be killed right after, by say, Lucius Malfoy.

	14-06-2004 18:12									#124
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Or Snape.

	14-06-2004 18:25									#125
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Snape is a good guy .

	14-06-2004 18:28									#126
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Until the chance to cast aside both his master Voldemort and Potter and become the ruler of the wizarding world comes along, that is...

	14-06-2004 18:45									#127
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Even then, he's a good guy.

	14-06-2004 19:17									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I think you guys are forgetting the best reason why Snape might be working for Voldemort, ie. it would make for one hell of a story. Don't let logic convince you that a great plot twist is unthinkable. I'm sure Rowling isn't... Yes, but a main theme in Rowling's books is that we can be redeemed by the choices we make in life. Snape is prime example of someone who was on the wrong side, but through his choices has come to the good side. It shows that people can change and can come to the light. I don't think she'd have Snape turn back again. I actually think that Snape will die trying to save Harry's life in some fashion. It fits with the whole story of Harry reexamining Snape and his motivations.

wonder of wonders - a key point of HP lore where I completely agree with Imran. Im not sure if Snape will in fact die, but I agreee about the main theme, and im sure that what happens with Snape and Harry will reflect that theme.

	14-06-2004 19:37									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Luna, because of her parental situation, doesn't have that 'family' Harry desires.

Hmm. Thats why i think it would be disappointing for Harry to end up with Ginny. One of the main themes of books 3,4,5 has been Harry looking to Sirius as a substitute for his dead parents. One of the interesting things about book 5, is the beginning of a more realistic look at Sirius by Harry - Harry learns both that Sirius (as well as James) were jerks at school, and he also gets several hints that Sirius was looking at him (Harry) as a substitute for James, and was disappointed when Harry reacted differently from James - as Harry MUST do, to establish himself as own person. He can keep James inside him (as was emphasized in POA) but he cant BE James. As he wrestles further with the death of Sirius, in book 6, I would hope he comes to the realization that he CANNOT find substitutes for his parents in other adults - he has to find his strength in himself. He can have a warm and loving and relationship with Arthur and Molly, but they will never substitute for Lily and James. To hook up with Ginny in an effort to join the more fully in the Weasley family would be a step back from that. I dont know what JKR will do, but I hope she doesnt do that.

	14-06-2004 19:44									#130
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Excellent point, lotm. I think you're absolutely correct, especially in the analysis of the evolution of the relationship between Harry and Sirius in OotP.

EDIT: Perhaps I'm revealing a fetish, but what do you folks think of Harry developing a relationship with an attractive young teacher, as opposed to the usual suspects (Ginny, Hermione, Cho, Luna)? Probably something Rowling would not want to explore given the books' popularity with children, but I think the power dynamics would be interesting.

If anyone (and I hope there really isn't a serious relationship, just frustration), I hope it is someone new. None of the existing female characters would feel right to me.

	14-06-2004 19:54									#131
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I also see a theme about the struggle against class based societies. The awareness level of such things seems much higher in the UK than in the US. Plus, I think it makes sense based upon the life of the author.

	14-06-2004 19:54									#132
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quote: I actually think that Snape will die trying to save Harry's life in some fashion. It fits with the whole story of Harry reexamining Snape and his motivations.

Completely and totally agreed, because of what Monolith said...

quote: I suspect that Snape may even become the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher next year. Because, in order for Harry to become an Auror, he has to take potions. His best OWL will probably not be enough to get into Snape's NEWT class, so a new potions professor will be brought in who will allow Harry into the upper level potions class.

Hence, Snape becomes the latest victim of the Dark Arts curse when he sacrifices himself for Harry at
the end of Book 6.

I lean towards Luna on the love triangle issue. There's a reason only Luna was able to affect Harry's feelings in the wake of the climax of Phoenix... and SnowFire's observation about Luna's opinion of Harry's fame pretty much cinches it for me.

For the record...

quote: However, if Dumledore's interpretation of the prophecy is correct (I bet it is), one of them will kill the other. And, therefore, one of them will live.

I had to gamble on who lives, I'd bet the farm on Harry. NO WAY Voldemort survives.

And don't forget Trelawney's other prophecy... the one she made to Harry in Azkaban, and the one we have yet to see a complete resolution to. Remember what Dumbledore said... Pettigrew is in Harry's debt, and still is (since we have no evidence he helped Harry escape from the Death Eaters in Goblet. If anyone is going to pull a Darth Vader-like turn, it's PETTIGREW, not Snape.

	14-06-2004 21:11									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Solver So, Rawling clearly is going to use that room I mentioned in previous post.

She already did use it.

	14-06-2004 21:17									#134
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quote: I would hope he comes to the realization that he CANNOT find substitutes for his parents in other adults - he has to find his strength in himself.

But even in finding strength in himself, he can find a true family. And OotP's big lesson was Harry learning that he can't/shouldn't do everything by himself. When the DADA group of Ginny/Neville/Luna forced Harry to take them seriously and let them come along, Harry realized it wasn't like before, where it was just him. Harry knows he needs help from others and he can't do it by himself (or just simply with Ron and Hermione).

I don't think the books are going for Harry the individual, but Harry realizing that he is part of the group, and while he may be the most gifted member, he can't do it alone.

	14-06-2004 21:17									#135
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Yeah, he's obviously registered Democrat........

Oh yeah?

	14-06-2004 22:35									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I would hope he comes to the realization that he CANNOT find substitutes for his parents in other adults - he has to find his strength in himself. But even in finding strength in himself, he can find a true family. And OotP's big lesson was Harry learning that he can't/shouldn't do everything by himself. When the DADA group of Ginny/Neville/Luna forced Harry to take them seriously and let them come along, Harry realized it wasn't like before, where it was just him. Harry knows he needs help from others and he can't do it by himself (or just simply with Ron and Hermione). I don't think the books are going for Harry the individual, but Harry realizing that he is part of the group, and while he may be the most gifted member, he can't do it alone.

well yes I agree with that, about Harry relying on others. But I think thats consistent with Harry seeking a love interest based on her own charecter, more than on the need for a substitute family (BTW, these kids are only going to be 17 at the end of book 7,so im not sure there has to be any serious love interest at all) Again IF Harry has a SO, he would surely reach out to that persons family. He will also continue to rely on the help, both material and emotional, of the Weasleys, of Lupin (the last surviving good marauder) of Tonks (about whom I expect to hear MUCH more) and the other OOTP members - and the DADA members as well. My comments were only in respect of Ginny as SO, based on a need to adopt the Weasleys as substitute family.

	14-06-2004 22:49									#137
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One thing any love interest will not disturb is the relationship between Harry and chums with teachers/adults. That relationship - where each group shows a united front to all members of the other group but, under the stress of the events making up the adventure, allegiances occasionally and for limited purpose are set aside - is fundamental to all stories of this kind.

You find it in Secret Seven/Famous Five books and in a any number of children's tales set in boarding schools.

The magic, the (excellent) muggle device and the battle with the Voldemort character (the element posters here seem to be most into) are specific to Rowling but the underlying attraction of the kids -v- adults theme and the boarding school setting remain a very powerful part of the attraction. If she were to lose anything of that the other features would cease to work. In conjunction with the generic aspects they are strengthening features. Alone they would be weak.

	14-06-2004 22:59									#138
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quote: My comments were only in respect of Ginny as SO, based on a need to adopt the Weasleys as substitute family.

I wasn't talking about a NEED, but rather a wanting. Harry has never felt a part of a family, neither would anyone with the Dursley's (except Dudders, of course). There are some interesting family tie ins in the books. One is the Weasley's, who are sort of like a foster family for Harry. Another is Gryffindor House at Hogwarts. And Hogwarts itself is kind of like a family home to Harry, where Dumbledore acts like a kind of father figure. But with all that it seems that Harry is closest to his Weasley family, and I'd think there would be nothing better than little Potter-Weasley kids running around. It would go well with Rowling's vision of the Weasley's as a poor, but very noble family (all the kids are smart, even if Percy looks to be apt for the dark side).

	14-06-2004 23:32									#139
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another note on Snape. Since Snape is a legiwhatever, he knows precisely what Ron, Hermione, and Harry think of him - their suspicion he is a deatheater, there personal dislike, and Harrys assumption (upto OOTP) that Snape was entirely in the wrong in his relations with James.

	14-06-2004 23:39									#140
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Doesn't he have to cast the spell first however?

	14-06-2004 23:49									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Doesn't he have to cast the spell first however?

dont know. It does seem that Snape always seems to know when Harry is lying, and Dumbledore often has an uncanny awareness of what people are thinking. Without any mention of them audibly pronouncing a spell.

	14-06-2004 23:52									#142
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I did indeed wonder. When Snape was teaching Harry he spoke the spell "Legelimans" (or something like that). I wonder if he has an innate mindreading ability which doesn't require wand waving, but uttering the spell allows him to go further into the mind.

Dumbledore... well he's in a class by himself isn't he?

spoiler(highlight to read): In the huge battle against Voldemort, I don't think either uttered a spell... though I could be wrong

	15-06-2004 01:39									#143
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Who knows how good Snape is at Legilmency? It's established he's great at Occlumency, but while your theory is interesting, I'm not sure if there's much evidence to back it up at the moment. I think that Snape, like Dumbledore & Voldemort, is probably a reasonably decent lie-detector, but I don't think he can neccessarily read Harry or the other's mind, and it's not like Ron's ever announced "I don't think you're a Death Eater."

Speaking of Voldemort, another mystery. At the end of Goblet, Dumbledore gets a very happy look on his face when he finds out that Voldemort used Harry's blood for his new body. Why? Is Voldemort's new body contaminated with fluffy love of Harry's mother now? I expect this will be important when the final showdown comes. (it's also a mark against Neville being the prophecy's recipient, of course.).

	15-06-2004 21:00									#144
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I was just poking around on Mugglenet, and they've (of course) gathered JK Rowling's interview statements and stuff to figure out some of the stuff in the next book. One of these is that in Book 6 we will know why Dumbledore trusts Snape. So I have a feeling Snape won't turn.

Of course there are some other interesting parts:

http://www.mugglenet.com/books/booksix/facts.shtml

I'm very interested to see what is so important about Lilly Potter.

	16-06-2004 01:53									#145
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I was looking for Harry Potter skins for my comp and came across this jewel: http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm

Be warned: Those who click will find out the horrible truth of Harry Potter!

They also don't have nice things to say about "Mormonism", Catholicsm - not even Pokemon is safe!

	16-06-2004 02:06									#146
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quote: I'm very interested to see what is so important about Lilly Potter.

They've also posted it as a fact for Book 5 that we would learn...