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Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
time: 05:36
  Old Post 24-06-2004 16:37 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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quote:

Whaleboy -- it is nearly unfeasible to customize legal laws on an individual basis.


We licence people to drive and we quantify people by qualifications do we not?

quote:

And generally, what is acceptable in the individual case, will also be so with society. There can be notable exceptions, which is what I am looking for here. It seems to me, that in the vast majority of cases, it is only beneficial to have a policy restricting sexual contact between minors and adults in order to protect the minors.


Personally I concur, but my argument hinges on a definition of "minor". See above.

quote:

Even if there are a few girls who do quite well in the situation, this does not justify the vast majority of the cases where things do not work out.


That is not to say that I am advocating that girls of X age have sex. I am saying that if they want to and are capable of doing so and deciding, then I see no reason why not.

quote:

Again, what is the primary goal of consent limitations? To protect the vunerable or provide freedom? I would argue the former and not the latter.


But to define vulnerable is not to specify an age where one is vulnerable then immediately not. What is so different between 15 years 11 months and 16 years 1 month?

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 17:40
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This is the only interesting thread I can find...

For the record my home town had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the world the year I started having sex. My girlfriend at the time used to say that it was because there was nothing else to do.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 17:56
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This is an interesting topic. Actually, I'm supportive of a progressive legislation, where age of consent begins at 14. By "progressive legislation", I mean that 14+ year old minors can have sex with people within an age difference (~4 years, and not younger than 14 mind you), while adults can have sex with any other consenting adult.

Even though people often havean understanding of sex at 14, I don't think these young people should be open to predators, for two simple reasons:
- People this age are still quite easy to manipulate, especially in that they haven't completed (sometimes not even begun) their sentimental learning. Blind trust is often found in people this age, which can be especially problematic with an egoist adult making a teenage girl pregnant.
- People this age have very different expectations from their relationships than adults. Especially for virgins, who'll be pressured by the adults into having sex very quickly (sex is an absolutely necessary part of adult relationships, it doesn't come as naturally in relationships between 14 or 15 year-olds)

I have seen this kind of problems in a couple between a 14 and a 17 year-old, and I can only expect these problems to be worse if an older adult preys on the young.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 17:59
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I believe the age of consent is 14 in Canada, although rumour has it Mr Harper would like to make it 21.

I can't see what's attractive about a 14 year old girl though, and I couldn't see what was when I was 18 either.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
time: 23:36
Question  Old Post 24-06-2004 18:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy


We licence people to drive and we quantify people by qualifications do we not?
You want a sex license?

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 24-06-2004 18:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
This is the only interesting thread I can find...

For the record my home town had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the world the year I started having sex. My girlfriend at the time used to say that it was because there was nothing else to do.


that is how it is in a lot of areas in the US also

JOn Miler

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 20:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy
We licence people to drive and we quantify people by qualifications do we not?


A drivers license is an area of what is really technical expertise, which can be quantified. Some vague statement like "emotionally ready to have sex" cannot.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 20:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
This is the only interesting thread I can find...

For the record my home town had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the world the year I started having sex. My girlfriend at the time used to say that it was because there was nothing else to do.


You grew up with Ted Striker?

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 21:26 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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i've been attracted to a 14 year old before.

of course, i was 14 at the time, so...

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
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Jul 2003
time: 06:36
  Old Post 24-06-2004 21:51
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Well, we're not gonna outlaw being attracted to minors, no matter how repulsed I was when a "friend" of mine explained that he though 13 was his minimum age for a woman he'd have sex with (he was, at the time, 35).

I tink Spiffor's idea has merit. We don't really want to punish a pair of 14-year-olds for having consensual sex (well, some of us do, but you get the point), but doesn't mean we couldn't punish a 30-year-old ephebophile for taking advantage of a 14-year-old.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 21:59
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Well, we're not gonna outlaw being attracted to minors, no matter how repulsed I was when a "friend" of mine explained that he though 13 was his minimum age for a woman he'd have sex with (he was, at the time, 35).

I tink Spiffor's idea has merit. We don't really want to punish a pair of 14-year-olds for having consensual sex (well, some of us do, but you get the point), but doesn't mean we couldn't punish a 30-year-old ephebophile for taking advantage of a 14-year-old.

korn469 is offline korn469
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Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:36
  Old Post 24-06-2004 22:24
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I have to go to work here in a while so I don't have time to respond to this thread, but statutory rape impacts more ages than simply the 30 year old and the 13 year old. I have personally experienced all the ins and outs of this law. My girlfriend of the time was 7 weeks away from the age of consent, and I was in my 20's her parents busted us, and consequently it went to court. I loved this girl (and still do but that's another story), but her mom was mad as hell and basically wanted to see me fry. At one point I confronted spending a large majority of my life in prison. My girlfriend thought it was all bs, but that didn't matter, basically the parents have total discrection in this matter. After a long legal fight which cost me every single cent I could scrape up for an entire year, I finally managed to work out a plea bargin.

Anyways, I basically managed to get the lowest penalty possible, which was a contributing to the deliquency of a minor charge. I've been on probation for about a year, and I have four months left (whoo-hoo!). In that time, I've finished up college (even getting on the dean's list while being under indictment for multiple felonies!). I have a decent job (having a criminal record really hurts your employeement chances even if it is only a misdemeaner, far more than I realized when I agreed to the plea deal) and hopefully when I get off of probation I'll find a better job. I'm also writing a book about my experiences, who so knows hopefully I'll become a published author one day. The worst part of my sentence was a restraining order, barring me from contacting her until I get off of probation besides one phone to her after my court date. Well her parents disconnected their phones so I didn't get my legal phone call to her after court, but I did get an update on her from a mutal friend a few months ago.

Anyways, since my court date she dropped out of school. She's also pregnant, and the guy (who's in his early twenties and she's in her late teens) basically lives with her and her parents now. She doesn't have a job, and he works at a Pizza place. Most importantly, since he was from the same town (I was from a different town), the parents didn't have a problem with how things turned out. When I found all of this out, I wanted to kill myself because it broke my heart so bad. I never cry, but I cried about this. I had seriously planned to propose to her on the day I got off probation, but things happen I guess. So in the end did the law protect her? I suppose you could say it did, but it doesn't sound like it did to me. My friend said she loves the new guy, so if she's happy I guess things didn't turn out to bad for her. As for me, it's been a rough couple of years because of this, but oh well. I'm making it just fine, and in just a few months I'll be making it even better, so it's all cool I guess.

korn469 is offline korn469
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 22:38
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oh and btw I live in virginia

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 22:41 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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quote:

You want a sex license?


Only on eBay...

quote:

A drivers license is an area of what is really technical expertise, which can be quantified. Some vague statement like "emotionally ready to have sex" cannot.


Wouldn't be that difficult, assuming one is physically capable, someone who wants to have sex can have a quick chat so they understand the risks, consequences, benefits, their own opinion etc and they can get a cool "diklicker" pass as if they were seeing Def Leppard play

Spiffors idea is very interesting though

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 24-06-2004 22:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
i've been attracted to a 14 year old before.

of course, i was 14 at the time, so...


There are many 15- and 16-year-olds I'd love to hit

Saint Marcus is offline Saint Marcus
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 00:32 Visit Saint Marcus's homepage!
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quote:
oh and btw I live in virginia


that would do it!

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 00:37 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
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Oct 2000
time: 23:36
Wink  Old Post 25-06-2004 00:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
For the record my home town had the highest teen pregnancy rate in the world the year
YOU BASTARD!
I always suspected you can from a town of baby rapers!

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 03:52 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
i've been attracted to a 14 year old before.

of course, i was 14 at the time, so...


that's no excuse

Flubber is offline Flubber
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Aug 2000
time: 22:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 04:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy

But to define vulnerable is not to specify an age where one is vulnerable then immediately not. What is so different between 15 years 11 months and 16 years 1 month?


Ok and there is not much difference between

15 years 11mo and 15 years 10 mo
15 years 10 and 15-9


and it keeps going and going. there may be 14 years olds more competent to make this decision than some 16 year olds. There may be some 12 year olds more competent than some 14 year olds. there may be some 10 year olds more competent to make the decision than some 12 year olds etc

BUT

if you accept that the atate has an interest in preventing people having sex with children ( and if you don't then all children would be legally available if the consented SHUDDER) then there are really only two options

1. an admittedly arbitrary age of consent-- it is consistent and knowable-- it protects people that need protecting. Only downsides are that immature older people may still be exploited and ( not sure this is a downside) some more mature younger persons may have to delay sexual contact with an older person.

2. Individual assessment?? I'm not even sure how this would work .. . a maturity test ?? and who does the testing and how? Remember always that there are pedophiles out there that will be looking to screw with any testing method you come up with because imagine if they could LEGALLY exploit that 8 year old they had their eyes on . and why not, she " consented" when you promised her a barbie doll and a candy bar

Inlecebrae is offline Inlecebrae
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Jun 2004
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 04:28 Visit Inlecebrae's homepage!
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Make way for the teen!

I’m set to be 16 in a few months time, and I can’t say I was ready to decide to have sex last year, or even now. Most of the girls I know that are having sex early on in their life are experiencing it drunk, stoned and sometimes both. These are the children who make themselves ‘look older’ in order to go to a club, get served alcohol and pull, so they can brag about it to their friends back at school. They usually end up being the kids who get bad exam results and have a career in Tesco and the like.
That said, I tend to go for older men as ‘partners’ and encourage my peers to do the same. Embarking on a sexually active relationship with one of them at this age is not something I am wholly prepared to do; I would not like to be responsible for sending my man to prison for a bit of kinky fun. Argue maturity as much as you like, but if they’re mature enough to decide to have sex, shouldn’t they be mature enough to respect the law?

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 04:29 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 04:42
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Dis the mental picture of Michael Moore doing the DL dance is unsettling

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:21 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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Flubber: While my method may be unworkable I still think it's better

quote:

Dis the mental picture of Michael Moore doing the DL dance is unsettling


She's called "temptations" and her sig says that failing philosophers should translate to latin. Welcome to the OT

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
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May 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:24
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ie

she is your DL

Jo Miller

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:36 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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A rudimentary understanding of latin, gleaned mostly from obsessive Year 10 history teachers, does not constitute a DL

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Inlecebrae
Make way for the teen!


We already have several arguing in this thread me included

Inlecebrae is offline Inlecebrae
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:41 Visit Inlecebrae's homepage!
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My knowledge of latin comes from singing it, and it consists of not a whole lot. My name and my sig were both cut and paste jobs from the net I'm afraid...

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:48
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Welcome to the Apolyton OTF!

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 25-06-2004 05:49 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kucinich
Welcome to the Apolyton OTF!


does a DL really need a welcome?

 
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