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Max Sinister
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I think civ2 graphics were an improval compared to civ1, and isometric tiles are ok too, but civ3 wasn't that much better - the colors are ugly, and the graphics slow down the game...
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Max Sinister
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I think it's too early to say that. I certainly hope we can do it in an editor - OTOH, even with Civ3 it's difficult to make new graphics if you don't want that they look crappy compared to the original ones, if you aren't an artist (I myself couldn't, for example).
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Toby Rowe
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London, UK
Feb 2001
time: 05:36
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I too wish to see if Fireaxis can do better [than] before I buy Civ 4. If there are modders for Civ 4, then Fireaxis hasn't mucked it up, and it is the last chance the Civ series has I think, before it goes the way of Sim City: consigned to history as a fantastic concept, but ruined by ego of the programmers who think they can do better than the "taken as given" rules Civ/Sim City/Colonisation set as a framework. All were logical, the basic rules needed tweaking, (not the game as processors became more powerful) IMHO.
One thing, does anyone know of a strategy gaming magazine in the English speaking world?
We had a magazine called PC Strategy player in the UK, the owners of PC Gamer brought it, then closed it down about 3 issues later (ie: They brought out the competition in order to kill it, even though PC Stategy Gamer didn't even begin to impinge on the PC Gamer market).
Is there a magazine that serves this gap in the gaming world? (Strategy/Sim/RPG).
(PC Gamer likes MMORP-whatever it's called, games for instance, as they seem to be all 18 and can play each other in the office, whilst getting paid, and also only slags off a company if it is tiny and doesn't buy 30% of all advertising space in the magazine per issue, so all Sony games are wonderful etc.
Toby ;_) (end of moan!!)
Edit; I did actually used be a subscriber of PC Gamer for about 8 years until they brought the magazine, which I discovered within a few issues of PC Gamer buying and then closing it.
This blatent act of stupidity made me laugh- it was like having a choice of shoe polish- You buy black for one pair, brown for another, I wanted and owned both, they lost a customer of 8 years by the illogical thinking the company had in competion terms- It showed how little the company understood the market.
Anyone want to start a real "Gathering of developers", or "gathering of Gamers"? (I'll do the Admin.....)
Last edited by Toby Rowe on 17-03-2005 at 08:28
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Capt Dizle
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Just put some wargame in there. I don't know why that concept is so hard for them to get.
Build more units with variable abilities. Ambushes. Recon in Force. Take the concept of that extra shot you could get from a zone of control from certain units. Beef it up. Give a unit with two moves the ability to be set on auto attack all or auto attack specified or auto retreat. The advancing forces comes within range and maybe they get mauled because they led with their best troops without sending in skirmishers to tell the enemy dispositions. Include partial results, retreating damaged units, so much could be done.
Real air and sea warfare could be put in this game.
And so on....
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Brent
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The pics don't look substantially better to me than the old ones. The units, at least.
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Europa Universalis can probably be considered a mainstream-appealing game, yet it's very complex. |
Not really, EU is a niche game as well. A particularly successful niche game, but a niche game nonetheless. Last I heard EU sold a few hunderd thousand copies, which is pretty damn good considering the game, but dwarfs in comparison to the millions of copies that are sold of games like Civilization, Age of Empires, Counterstrike or whatever...
If you want complexity, Civ is the wrong place to look. Civ1, 2 and 3 didn't offer huge strategic depth either, at least not compared to other TBS(eque) games like the CtP series, EU, GalCiv, Slitherine games, etc. If you're looking for a new complex TBS game, I'd recommend checking out Ages of Man, Legion II or GalCiv II instead...
Personally, what I want/expect from Civilization IV is gameplay which is (a) sufficiently different from Civ3 (or rather Civ2, as I barely played Civ3 myself) while still being a Civ game, (b) free of tedious micromanagement and (c) FUN! A game need not be complex to be fun. I still enjoy playing Dungeon Keeper, ST:Birth of the Federation and Lemmings, and those don't exactly offer the zenith of complex gameplay. Added complexity in Civ4 would be a great bonus of course, but I'm not holding my breath on it. As long as it doesn't loose too much of the existing (lack of) complexity...
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:36
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Sure, it can be fun without huge complexity. Complexity is why I have EU2 here somewhere, and why I like CtP, and why I look forward to AoM. Still, it would be nice to have Civ4 more complex. After all, Firaxis games can be complex too. Take SMAC, which is pretty complex! In fact, its complexity was even a drawback, as the AI was absolutely unable to deal with several concepts (making SE choices to harm itself, designing the same units, not using Crawlers, making poor use of air units).
Civ4 can be complex, and I'm hoping for that. Heck, if they've revised the Civ2/3 combat model, it will already add complexity, and for good. After all, complexity is a part of what makes a game Civ.
Well, at least what I am sure of is that Civ4 will be more complex than many other games on the market, AoE3 and the like.
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Brent
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I guess the complexity I want is different from the complexity that is often assumed. What I want is options. I want a one-session game to be as fun as in GalCiv. I can handle playing for several sessions, but I don't want a game to last more than two months no matter how frequently I play during that time. I want the game to do a variety of stuff in the background, but I don't want to micromanage much. Or at least I don't want to have to. More complex could be nice for a multisession game, but see above re: GalCiv. SMAC complexity is perfectly fine, I even seem to remember having fun on the smallest world size. I never did Social Engineering. Civ4 Combat could stand to be a little more complex than previous Civ games. Just so it's abstract.
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Brent
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My Civ3 games were probably never longer than 25 hours. Maybe five or six hours once or twice a week for one month should get me through the longest possible game.
The thing with GalCiv may simply be the feel. I guess you can feel like you're doing more in less time. Maybe it has something to do with units moving and fighting in less time, or just plain shorter turns.
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ozmono1914
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by lajzar
Experience gained in combat only lasts a generation. The extra power of these elite units would be better reflected as different unit types, with higher stats and possibly higher maintenance.
Not true experience gained in battle is used to better prepare future generations for the ordeals of the past. Older tactics that worked well are more intensely trained while tacitcs that didn't work are disregarded or improved on and innovations from the battle field are bought into standard practice
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Peter Triggs
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Gone Fishin, Canada
Jan 2000
time: 05:36
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Not all that surprising given that Mustafa Thamer, Civ4's Lead Programmer, used to work for NDL, the makers of the Gamebryo 3D graphics tools and engine used by Civ4. In fact way back in 1992, he was credited with:
quote:
Dimensions NDL staff members Greg Gilley, Brice Tebbs and Mustafa Thamer develop a revolutionary, resolution-independent method of 3D shading and rendering for illustration in Adobe Dimensions.
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Thamer's Firaxis Bio describes him as "a tech visionary", so I think it's safe to assume that Civ4's graphics will be state of the art.
edit: spelling
Last edited by Peter Triggs on 28-03-2005 at 03:32
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16-02-2005 21:05
I am a bit worried of how they plan to implement religion, the little info so far on that gives little knowledge, but I certainly don't hope it will be just a happiness factor.
I really hope they'll implement it like in the old List ideas, then I'd be very happy!
!
And also why it 'only' sold a few hundred thousand copies, like EU and CtP and all those other complex strategy games...
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