23-06-2004 00:56									#61
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Trees:

	23-06-2004 02:26									#62
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These Greenpeace boarders just need to realize when their opinion is unwanted, uncalled for and unimportant. Somebody paid a chunk of money to send that stuff over there because somebody over there paid a chunk of money to get it. The boarders never enter the picture, it's none of their damn business, and they should have been kicked off the ladders as soon as they tried to come up.

Do-gooder busybodies

	23-06-2004 02:54									#63
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Why didn't the crew shoot them? Were they not prepared to repel borders? It isn't as if they were facing SEALs.

	23-06-2004 02:59									#64
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If they're chained to the access ladders, why not get into port, break out the cutting torch and just remove the ladders from the side of the boat. Surely they can get another ladder up in plenty of time for the crew to disembark.

	23-06-2004 03:05									#65
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There's only one pirate ship and that's the greek national team in portugal

	23-06-2004 03:21									#66
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quote: Originally posted by problem_child Actually piracy for money is alive and vibrant on the high seas (why is it called high seas, when all sea is at... sea-level?) especially in the Carribean and South-East Pacific. Any particular reason why this Green Peace piracy annoys you, as opposed to the thousands of pirates that also get away with it? I know alot of people find Green Peace really annoying, because they're abit up-themselves.

The high seas were called such to distinguish them from coastal or riverine waters subject to the jurisdiction of a sovereign nation. On the high seas, international maritime law applies, as opposed to national laws which govern waters closer to shore.

The difference with the Greenpeace scum and the other pirate scum (other than a few slit throats) is that the other pirate scum generally doesn't have the audacity to act right at the entrance to the ports of a major maritime power.

	23-06-2004 03:28									#67
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in other news meier's pirates doesnt run on dos mode.

	23-06-2004 14:50									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i still don't see what the **** is the problem with GM foods.

For starters, the spliced genes get into the enviroment, screwing up everything.

	23-06-2004 15:35									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger For starters, the spliced genes get into the enviroment, screwing up everything.

And the scariest thing is that GM foods are often not able to reproduce themselves. In the natural world you grow your crop and use the seed from the crop for next season. In the GM world you have to go to the companies selling the stuff to ensure you eat again next year..........the consequences of this are so scary that i'll never buy any GM what so ever, and will only vote for my politicians that say they will keep my country GM free.

	23-06-2004 15:38									#70
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That's correct, you can't grow next year's crop with seeds from the heavest this year. Which means big biotech companies are trying to undermine nature to create a monopoly, or at least a cartel, in the food market.

	23-06-2004 15:44									#71
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Our world is truely ruled by evil men and women

So this is why i support Piracy in this case - i think its core reason is a good one, one worth fighting for

	23-06-2004 16:39									#72
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UR is a big environmentalist, as long as he confines his criticism to the west.

	23-06-2004 20:01									#73
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PETA and Greenpeace activists should be shot on sight. It would raise the average IQ of the world by at least 10.

	23-06-2004 20:38									#74
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quote: For starters, the spliced genes get into the enviroment, screwing up everything.

the scientific and technological aspect of gm foods don't scare me at all, and i fail to see why it should scare anyone else. spliced genes making it into the environment? they didn't create them; merely brought them into another organism. sure, the bug-resistant things might have unintended side effects... but it seems to me that even gm foods are somewhat vulnerable, just less so than "natural" foods. therefore, i don't see why bugs and other such things wouldn't adapt to the new circumstances, particularly since gm traits won't exactly overwrite other organism's traits in one fell swoop.

economically, i also don't see a problem. some of the gm stuff is far more nutritious and easier to grow than their "natural" counterparts. i personally can't taste the difference between a gm tomato, a normal tomato, and one of those organic tomatoes. i just know that by and large, a gm tomato and a normal tomato are far cheaper, seem fresher and more robust than the organic ones. i realize that just because i can't taste a difference doesn't mean others can't, but seriously? taste is psychological too. if you have a distinct fear or hatred of say, sardines, anything with sardines is going to be lacking to your tongue.

that said, i do have one problem with gm foods, and this is mentioned in your quotes here:

quote: In the GM world you have to go to the companies selling the stuff to ensure you eat again next year......

quote: Which means big biotech companies are trying to undermine nature to create a monopoly, or at least a cartel, in the food market.

it's the same problem i have with software patents. those ****ers aren't really creating anything, therefore it's an abomination that they can patent the genes and then use them how they want.

but that's a political/commerce issue, not a scientific one.

i still think greenpeace is a bunch of ****ing ****wits, and the environmental movement would be better served by saner people.

	23-06-2004 20:56									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: For starters, the spliced genes get into the enviroment, screwing up everything. the scientific and technological aspect of gm foods don't scare me at all, and i fail to see why it should scare anyone else. spliced genes making it into the environment? they didn't create them; merely brought them into another organism.

They are creating them, actually. They introduce new traits to a species by taking traits from another that is normally completely incompatible with it. So as far their subject is concerned, it is the creation of a new trait and the introduction of new genes to that species' genepool.


Personally, I go by the belief that if it isn't broken, you shouldn't fix it, 'cause we just end up ****ing around untill there really is a problem.

	23-06-2004 21:01									#76
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it's not creation. it's a transplant. i fail to see how it's that different from taking one subroutine that checks to see if all the data are kosher from a spreadsheet program and dropping it into a videogame.

i realize that my lack of fear for gm foods might stem from my notion that scientific progress and technological advance should have no barriers, but come on... it's ridiculous to think that a few plants with these traits would wipe out the far greater numbers of plants without them in a short period of time.

	23-06-2004 21:06									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed it's not creation. it's a transplant. i fail to see how it's that different from taking one subroutine that checks to see if all the data are kosher from a spreadsheet program and dropping it into a videogame.

...

what?

Video aren't even remotely a good metaphore for a living organism. For starters, they don't reproduce - which is kind of the subject here.


Anyways.... yes, it is a transplant. But a transplant which amounts to creating a new trait in a species where it was not possible before.

	23-06-2004 21:21									#78
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd For starters, they don't reproduce - which is kind of the subject here.

I don't get the hysteria. It isn't as if we haven't done this kind of thing for centuries.

	23-06-2004 21:22									#79
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What does this have to do with punishment of piracy anyway?

	23-06-2004 21:32									#80
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I don't get the hysteria. It isn't as if we haven't done this kind of thing for centuries.

What we've been doing is selective breeding. That's not what GM is.

GM is taking something from outside the genepool and transplanting it. Like taking genes from a pig and putting it in a tomato, or splicing a spider with a goat.

	23-06-2004 21:32									#81
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What does anything in this thread have to do with piracy, anyway? I repeat, it's ludicrous to discuss this situation as piracy when all the Greenpeacers did was chain themselves to the ship. They didn't "seize control." They didn't hurt anyone. They didn't threaten anyone. They weren't armed, presumably. This is nothing like piracy.

	23-06-2004 21:36									#82
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it doesn't change the fact that greenpeace would serve the environmentalist movement better if it were gone, much like how peta would serve the vegetarian and animal cruelty movements better if they were gone.

	23-06-2004 21:41									#83
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Movements aren't better served by removing their most vocal and controversial speakers. That only allows their issues to be more easily buried and ignored.

	23-06-2004 21:43									#84
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I'm still confused why the French didn't shoot them. It isn't as if they are shy about attacking Greenpeace.

	23-06-2004 21:45									#85
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They only do high explosives vs Greenpeace.

	23-06-2004 21:46									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Under what law would they charge you with murder if you killed in international waters?

Admiralty law. Which nation gets to conduct the trial can be complex in the typical modern situation where you have a vessel owned by citizens or corporations of one nation, the vessel is flagged by another, and the passengers or crew who are murdered may be from several others.

The nation which apprehends the murderer(s) also typically has jurisdiction.

	23-06-2004 21:46									#87
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Ah.

	23-06-2004 21:46									#88
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i think movements would be better served by having some of the more extreme groups pipe down. greenpeace and elf sure as hell make me less inclined to both want to support and agree to their ideals, much as how peta makes me less inclined to care about slaughterhouse cruelty.

	23-06-2004 21:48									#89
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Movements aren't better served by removing their most vocal and controversial speakers. That only allows their issues to be more easily buried and ignored.

Yes, of couse, Luddnik - movements are better served when the most attention is given to the shrillest and most irrational speakers, because instead of "ignoring" the movement, the loons manage to utterly discredit it themselves.

	23-06-2004 21:49									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i think movements would be better served by having some of the more extreme groups pipe down. greenpeace and elf sure as hell make me less inclined to both want to support and agree to their ideals, much as how peta makes me less inclined to care about slaughterhouse cruelty.

What's wrong with People for Eating Tasty Animals?