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Enigma_Nova
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Most strange.
I hope Lord Raptor's found ways to attach stuff to the forums by now. :/
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Lord Raptor
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Well, here is the .zip file.
 Attachment: bb-university-2103.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
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Lord Raptor
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And this is the .sav file. By the way, I use SMAC, because that's the only version I got.
 Attachment: bb-university-2103.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).
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Enigma_Nova
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It works, and is good.
...
I count 5 Gaian bases, 3 Hive bases and 3 Peacekeeper bases.
All in all, that's 14 votes. Why did I end up as governor?
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Lord Raptor
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At last. Thank god.
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Enigma_Nova
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But you voting for yourself coupled with HongHu's or Raptor's votes would have won!
Didn't HongHu and Raptor vote after you?
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smacksim
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Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:36
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Considering the nature of PBEM's : Slow, time consuming, a lot of steady commitment, I agree with the general sentiment at Apolyton that cheating should be punished. It wastes people's valuable time, not to mention eroding the trust that everyone else tries to build. Therefore, if someone cheated in this or any other PBEM I was in, I would want some justice. I imagine that person would be branded a cheater, and would find it hard to get any games going, which is the worst punishment. Personally, I'd be willing to continue playing if the player apologized and was convincing in stating that it wouldn't happen again, but I wouldn't expect that of everyone else. I'd be prepared for the game to die right then and there.
I guess there are a few scenarios though. For instance, what if the cheater decided they were sorry for their actions and came forward before being discovered? I'd be likely to accept their pleas for understanding in that case.
Case 2: Cheater is discovered and denies it. Bad bad bad. If the evidence is good, I'd have to go with 'Brand a Cheater', report to admin. Of course, it would really stink if someone hacked the save and made it look like someone else was cheating. But what can one do?
Case 3: Cheater is discovered and plays it off as all in good fun, but is understanding of everyone being disappointed and promises to discontinue or get a sub, or anything not to hurt the game any further. Again, I'd probably accept that.
Case 4: Cheater is discovered and is not convincing about discontinuing behavior. This is the most infuriating because some of us would accept their explanation and others wouldn't. Game would be dead.
In any case, I'd hope someone accused of cheating would find a replacement and otherwise try to keep the game fun for those remaining
I am s-o----l---o---n---g-------w---i----n----d----e----d sometimes.
-S
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Enigma_Nova
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How long would it take to find a replacement?
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Darsnan
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New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by HongHu
Suppose one of us was caught cheating and gaining great benefit from doing so, what do you think we should do?
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I hope this isn't being brought up because of Enigma's calling the election without declaring it....
Anyways, my $0.02 would be that although I have only been playing SMAC(X) PBEM's for about 2.5 years now, why because I set up a lot of PBEM's I am exposed to what I see as tendencies in players signing up for various games. Esentially it has been my observation that (for the most part) new players tend to play against new players, more experienced players tend to look for more advanced games and competititors (i.e. other players that have grown out of playing against other newb's), and the best players seek each other out for the penultimate in the PBEM experience.
One of the criteria for moving on into these higher echelon games is a player's reputation. If a player develops a reputation for not pushing turns in a timely manner, easily getting upset, or cheating , then odds are that word will get around, and since as someone else has already stated a lot of effort is put ino a PBEM, why most players will outright shun playing against a player with a (for whatever reason) poor reputation. Thus this player is consigned to at most playing against noobs, or worse, against others of his ilk. I am also inclined to say that I as a CMN am less likely to want to set up a game for a person of this nature (i.e. poor turn pusher, berates other players, cheats, etc.). Now as far as the first two categoires (poor turn pushing, berating or otherwise defaming other players), why these are pretty easy to notice, both from a players perspective, as well as a CMN's. As far as cheating is concerned, why it takes a much more careful scrutiny of a game to realize if a player is cheating or not. Suffice it to say that in some cases it is almost impossible to catch a person who cheats.
However, if a person is caught, by whatever means, why it would be my observation that since our community is very small that word would circulate very quickly in regards to this, and the player caught cheating would find himself between a rock and a hard place as far as what judgement our community as a whole passed on that player: I think the equivalent would be "The Black Spot", IMO.......
All in all a fair question, HongHu, but coming so close to Enigma's calling elections without giving the turns notice, why I would've thought better coming from such a diplomatic person as yourself.... 
My $0.02 on the subject, and if I am drawing any wrong conclusions in my above statements, then please accept my appologies now.
D
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smacksim
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Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:36
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I dunno if I'd call you a newbie E_N 
I make mistakes like those, especially in a lot of different games at once situation. I don't think those are cheating in themselves, but it's the attitude about mistakes that counts.
If you came forward to HH, and then she came to us with the vague statements above, then it seems like pretty good attitude to me. If I were you I would have posted my mistakes upon realizing them, rather than this way (unless HH got to the thread first after being asked advice). Keep the fixing of problems simple for others. That's the golden rule of this sort of venture.
If you are only posting because others found out and called you out, then I'm done. I won't play with someone like that in most cases. But I think you are trying to be responsible and asked HH for advice. So now I must ask for disclosure (This wouldn't be necessary if you had just come straight out, rather than through HH, if that was the case). I also ask for a restart. Those mistakes could be costly, considering the early natue of trading with AI...etc..
Smack's example of easy-on-others:
"I screwed up and did X. I present these options to rectify and I suggest this option. I will do whatever I need to to make fixing this easier"
"O.k., sounds reasonable. Let me know when you have fixed the turns or gotten the CMN to do so".
As I said, I can see making those mistakes myself. So fix it.
-S
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:36
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Well I'm still here, although Honghu has only partially informed me.
I'm not sure what she wants done.
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smacksim
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Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:36
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Questions for E_N:
Did you ask HH for advice, then she posted?
If not, did she just guess?
Did she post her questions in agreement with you?
If so, why didn't you just come forward?
Requests:
If you talked with HH, trying to see if this should come out, I request that we restart.
If she discovered you and then you came out, I request an end to the game. I will find a substitute if anyone would want to continue.
If you are trying to keep the game going, I suggest YOU make the suggestions and try to appease the masses, rather than being defensive.
The ball is clearly in your court. Please, if you want people to play with you, do something about it rather than just state facts. Fix the mistakes.
-Smack
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Enigma_Nova
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Because there's no way in hell HongHu could tell anything?
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04-07-2004 13:29
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