01-07-2004 12:50									#121
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Yes, PtW 1.27 is the final version. It has only a few bugs left (like the city rank corruption bug, aka RCP), which were promised to be fixed in Conquests. This promise has been honored indeed, which could be good news, except that a large bunch of previously fixed bugs from PtW returned. The reason for this is probably, that the coding work with Conquests begun before the PtW bugs were fixed, and for the fixes in PtW an extra branch in the code base (CVS, MSS or alike) has been created, which is now dead since PtW is finished. But the bugs remained in the C3C code base. Since Firaxis has almost ceased to support Conquests (except Tavis' effort, which is appreciated, but insufficient), this probably means, that these bugs will remain forever, unless they launch a huge bug squashing effort, which is however unlikely to happen.

	01-07-2004 22:19									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Mad Bomber Scoring penalty (Bonus) for barb level was in CIV 2. It is not a factor in the scoring for CIV III.

interesting. I wasn't sure. I know you get a bonus in SMAC as well.

I usually play with them at roaming I believe. I think it would be too cheesy to make them lower. I don't like to make the game too easy

Plus it's nice when they harass the AI civs. Although I'm not sure how much that happens. They seem to harrass me more than the AI.

	02-07-2004 01:01									#123
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It's Amazing seeing how many people think Civ 2 is better than civ 3. It took me over two years and the latest expansion conquests to finally coax me into playing Civ 3. I had bought the special edition Civ-3 the year it was release but never played it. I thought I wouldnt like the new concepts of strategic resources and Culture. Now I really love the concepts and think Civ 3 is a much better game than Civ 2 overall.

	02-07-2004 01:36									#124
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And I admit to liking graphics. The graphics are a big plus- esp. snoopy's graphics pak.

But as I've said before. Having armies and units supported on a nation wide basis rather than indidual cities I like.

I like the fact workers and settlers are seperate, unlike civ2.

I like the fact that the units are a bit more balanced, and with conquests, there's a wide assortment of units to choose from. Esp. in the modern age. Although I still primarily use modern armour and mech. infantry . But I sometimes use radar artillery. And of course I use jet fighters, bombers, and stealth bombers. Units such as the Civ2 howitzer was just too powerful. Yes I could refrain from using it, but it's too tempting

diplomats and spies in civ2 were too powerful. Although I admit I'm not entirely pleased with the way espionage is implemented in civ3. But it's not a big part of my game, so it never bothered me much. It may bother other people more that rely on stealing technology and other spy/diplomat actions to win.

battleships and other units completely wiping out garrisons in cities in civ2 I did not like. Navy in civ3 may seem a little weak, but I think they are in context with their usefulness in real life (although it would be hard to implement navies disrupting trade routes).

partisans- I'm glad they're gone . They were annoying.

but I do miss wonder movies. the advisors were pretty cool. And the nostalgia. It was such an amazing game back in the day. Nothing could beat it.

	02-07-2004 08:39									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident partisans- I'm glad they're gone . They were annoying.

Amen.

	02-07-2004 23:50									#126
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The espionage model and Zone of control are the only features that I liked in Civ 2. But I agree with Dissident, Diplomats/Spies in Civ 2 were way overpowered. I relied more in conquering the AI with diplomats/spies than with military units. Just take the enemy capitol with force and buy up the remaining cities.

In Civ 3 I dont even bother with espionage with the exception of occasionally investigating a city. After spending huge gobs of money trying to steal technology or inciting propaganda with no positive results I dont even try anymore. Even inserting a spy in a enemy city doesnt work half the time. The only espionage feature with I truely miss from civ 2 is the ability to bribe a enemy unit.

Even though CIV 3 does have ZOC feature most units dont have the ZOC trait set. But no real loss I just use a line of 3-4 units to block those pesky AI Settlers from traversing my territory.

	03-07-2004 00:19									#127
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Other than the suitcase nuke (which I've never used), I would say Civ2 spies and dips are more underpriced than overfeatured. My biggest issue with spies is their re-usability. The single-use dip makes some sense (esp. at the price), but the infinite-use spy (@30GP!) is quite laughable. A "no city bribe" approach puts them in decent perspective. But used as designed, they should be WAY more expensive.

	03-07-2004 13:32									#128
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Civ 3 sux as SP and Civ2 rocks as SP or MP = a plain fact....

	03-07-2004 13:33									#129
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then, and now

	03-07-2004 16:57									#130
	need sound to not get stuck with civII Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I need a copy of the "diplomusic" folder you all have under civ3\sounds otherwise i have to play civ I!! my email is luzifer666@gmx.ch

thanx

	04-07-2004 04:28									#131
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quote: Originally posted by deity Civ 3 sux as SP and Civ2 rocks as SP or MP = a plain fact....

the thing is I never played civ2 in multiplayer. My version does not have multiplayer. I think you need the gold edition or something.

good luck finding that now.

	04-07-2004 05:30									#132
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Yes yo need the gold version or Test Of Time. They are often available around here.

	04-07-2004 11:03									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph The bulk of Civ3ers played Civ2. They're just openminded for some changes and willing to trade some fun for more challenge (speaking of SP, of course), while others are not. Neither of these sides is right or wrong, and everybody should play what him pleases. edit

I suggest you read the results of the poll

	04-07-2004 13:54									#134
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quote: Originally posted by deity I suggest you read the results of the poll

Yes, it says that more players trashed Civ2 entirely than people still playing it regularly. Your point being?

	04-07-2004 14:04									#135
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I suspect there are people who have never played civ2 in their life and still voted for option 1.

	04-07-2004 14:05									#136
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May be, but that ambiguity is to blame at the poll creator.

	05-07-2004 23:38									#137
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Once I got Civ 3, I gave Civ 2 to a friend to borrow and never asked for it back.

The only thing I really really miss is the use of bombers and fighters. I hate this automatic bombing...I like the old move your bomber and give it to emmm. Besided that Civ 3 has kept me entertained.

	06-07-2004 03:39									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Tian Dan Once I got Civ 3, I gave Civ 2 to a friend to borrow and never asked for it back. The only thing I really really miss is the use of bombers and fighters. I hate this automatic bombing...I like the old move your bomber and give it to emmm. Besided that Civ 3 has kept me entertained.

I do miss some things from Civ II:

Bombers capable of launching cruise missles
Helicopters and Bombers able to detect subs
Pikemen that are effective against horse units
Spearman that die when confronted with Armor
Paratroopers that are useful and have an appropriate range.
'Firepower' concept (can reproduce in CIV 3 to a degree with editor though)
Zoc control limits with fortifications (alleviated to a degree with C3C)

In the "good ridance to bad rubbish" category from Civ II.

Helicopters able to take cities

Planes running out of gas because you accidently moved it one tile S instead of SW.

'Death of one is death of all' concept (stacked unit destruction)

Diplomats and spies bribing an army to serve.

	06-07-2004 06:05									#139
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bombers launching cruise missiles?

	06-07-2004 17:10									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident bombers launching cruise missiles?

It is possible when using the editor.

I made the modification in CIV 2 based on the fact that B-52's were reconfigured in the 1980's to be able to launch Tomahawk cruise missles to further increase their range as well as to enable them to attack ships. P3 Orions and British Nimrods also carry the Tomahawk on their maritime patrol mission

Edit: P3's and Nimrods carry harpoons, not tomahawks. However the B-52, B-1B, and the B-2 can all be used to launch cruise missles.

	06-07-2004 18:22									#141
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Well, since you did the mod, I don't understand the complaint...

	06-07-2004 18:26									#142
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Well, since you did the mod, I don't understand the complaint...

That particular mod was listed under "things I miss from CIv II" It was not a complaint, except for the fact its not possible to do this with the Civ III game engine.

	08-07-2004 11:11									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Yes, it says that more players trashed Civ2 entirely than people still playing it regularly. Your point being?

Yeah, the poll wording is a bit ambiguous....

I think Maquiladora may be correct - be interesting to actually quantify that. I suspect many Civ 3 er's haven't played Civ2 (particularly MP)

	08-07-2004 12:14									#144
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I personally know not many Civ3 players, who didn't play Civ2 before. Most did.

	08-07-2004 21:38									#145
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but I have not played MP. MP didn't come out until years after Civ2 came out. And I got tired of spending money on expansions. conflicts in civilizations was okay. I didn't care for fantastic worlds that much.

so you can say my observations are mainly based on single player. Although I have played a little bit of multiplayer civ3, I tend to play mostly single player.

	08-07-2004 23:42									#146
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I was not thrilled with Fantastic either, all are in Test Of Time.

	08-07-2004 23:57									#147
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Whats the deal with Test of Time. I did buy that one. But it seemed like it was incompatible with Civ2.

Can you play multiplayer civ2 if you are using Test of Time and the other person is using regular Civ2 gold?

I also didn't like the graphics in test of time. In fact, I felt like that expansion was a waste of money as well. But maybe if I can play multiplayer...

But the game is so old now. I just can never go back. going back to those annoying rules

	09-07-2004 01:31									#148
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You can elect to use the same graphics as Civ2, it is your choice.
It contains the original and all addons and a new part that can be played.

Not a bad deal. You can use new grahpics and a new view, if you wish.

I do not know if it will play with gold or not. Check on the civ2 forum.

	09-07-2004 14:23									#149
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quote: I suggest you read the results of the poll

By the way, you can rig any poll if you drum up support among small, but active minorities. Similar things happened a lot in music charts in the 70's. If somebody posted a similar thread like this in the Civ3 PBEM, Strategy or Apolyton University forums, which are the most active Civ3 forums, the results would probably go overwhelmingly in the other direction. That said, nobody gives a rats ass about such polls, anyway.

The real activity of the Civ2 community, or sadly the lack thereof, can be seen in this thread.

	10-07-2004 00:35									#150
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You have all fallen victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is: "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." But, only slightly less well known is this: "Never go in against him when Sir Ralph is on-line!"



(I like Conquests an awful lot, played with the AU Mod... much better than Civ2).