30-06-2004 20:42									#391
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: what can I say but to call it unsibstantiated? All the evidence of splicing film, cutting film before the questioned can answer, etc, etc., points to a very substantiated effort to mislead.

First of all, the whole congressmen part is an assinine bit. You know what? What the hell could any of the Congresspeople have said? Yes, I will urge my kids to enlist and aks to be sent to Iraq? Note that the first congressman that speaks to him and the onl one that is given time to speak does agree that maybe he should ask his children to go there. Anyone who uses this film alone as their source of info deserves to be "mislead"- Moore is not there to write the definitive history of the events.

quote: No, that is my point. Your point is based on not liking one, but liking the other and saying they are different.

Maybe you haven't read it. BUT the difference for me are:

1. Moore is not a professional talking head. He makes films, wirtes books and every so often has a TV shows. He does not have a permanent outlet for his views.

2. Moore comments on one broad issue- business. Even his works on gun control and the war on Iraq are very business oriented. He is not here to comment on ever issue, nor does he give commentary on everything, like the supreme court or this or that.

3. Much of Moore's film and TV work is letting other's hang themselves on their own words. He also goes out and advocates for individuals (you ignored the part about him getting a guy a lifesaving pancreas). He seeks to meet and talk to the people he criticizes- he is always trying to meet and interview the CEO's he attacks. I don't see any of the talking heads going out there to engage the enemy in person.

	30-06-2004 22:06									#392
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Re: Context

Some people seem to be shocked that a documentary film is short on context. That must be a characteristic of our culture, because documentary films never have context, or they have little more context than the evening news. That doesn't make them full of lies. Intelligent people will put the information in context and get something usefull out of it.

The film won't brainwash people. Ordinary people want to believe what Bush says. It will open some eyes though, and some of the people who rely on the contextless media for their information will be motivated to get to the context and the truth.

	30-06-2004 23:40									#393
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quote: First, I would say that Al Franken is a bigger liberal commentator. In fact, Al Franken does what Limbaugh does, NOT Moore.

You see? That's all you had to say: "I would opine that Franken is the liberal Limbaugh, not Moore", but NOOOOOOO you gotta go off on a 500 word dissertation that says everything but the logical.

	30-06-2004 23:43									#394
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT You see? That's all you had to say: "I would opine that Franken is the liberal Limbaugh, not Moore", but NOOOOOOO you gotta go off on a 500 word dissertation that says everything but the logical.

I point was to show why calling Moore the liberal Limbaugh is wrong.

If anyone wants to compare someone to Limbaugh, Franken has taken up a similar role.

The fact is the right has no Moore figure. Just like the Dems may have a whip but have no one who is really like Tom Delay in their ranks.

	30-06-2004 23:47									#395
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The fact is the right has no Moore figure.

Thank goodness for that.

	30-06-2004 23:52									#396
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I know. Can you imagine the whining and gnashing of teeth on this board if a documentary supporting Dubya actually went into wide release? It'd tear the OT apart. Apart, I tells ya!!!

	30-06-2004 23:53									#397
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Don't rub it in.

	30-06-2004 23:58									#398
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Well John Stossel is kind of Moore-like. He doesn't have the same hype machine though.

	01-07-2004 00:00									#399
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This guy is more Michael Moore than Moore himself. He's the embodiment of all the complaints against Moore from the right, only for the right.

	01-07-2004 00:01									#400
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I know. Can you imagine the whining and gnashing of teeth on this board if a documentary supporting Dubya actually went into wide release? It'd tear the OT apart. Apart, I tells ya!!!

It would have to be an accidental comedy. Like 'Refer Madness."

	01-07-2004 00:08									#401
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quote: Originally posted by GePap 2. Moore is hardly a commentator. He is more of an activist against big business...

Moore is an activist............... activist against big business I'm not so sure of. IMO, he has all the earmarks of a closet communist.

	01-07-2004 00:18									#402
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Spencer,

What earmarks are those? I would like to know so that I can identify closet communists.

	01-07-2004 00:23									#403
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Moore is an activist............... activist against big business I'm not so sure of. IMO, he has all the earmarks of a closet communist.

Such an assessment of Moore leads me to believe you have a great misconception of him.

	01-07-2004 00:24									#404
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I have no idea how his points are distributed, but if he has just 20 gross points (20% of the gross revenues, which is a very low guess since he is the only major involved in the production of the film), he'll have already cleared $4.75 million, offsetting his $6million in production costs. This weekend he'll likely end up in the black, making him a very profitable Communist.

	01-07-2004 00:25									#405
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good point JohnT... commies aren't usually profitable.

	01-07-2004 00:28									#406
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well John Stossel is kind of Moore-like. He doesn't have the same hype machine though.

I think that's a far more astute and accurate comparasion than Rush Limbaugh.

	01-07-2004 00:29									#407
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See GePap? That's how it's done!

	01-07-2004 00:32									#408
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer I think that's a far more astute and accurate comparasion than Rush Limbaugh.

agreed...

except Stossel has some really weird ideas about how good things were pre-New Deal.

	01-07-2004 00:48									#409
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Spencer, What earmarks are those? I would like to know so that I can identify closet communists.

Closet commies are not easy to identify since they are often confused as far-left liberals. In Moores case, the attempt to portray himself as a 'working man' in speech, dress, and attitudes when clearly he is not one, suggests he's a CC. The content of his movies confirms it.

	01-07-2004 00:50									#410
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Closet commies are not easy to identify since they are often confused as far-left liberals. In Moores case, the attempt to portray himself as a 'working man' in speech, dress, and attitudes when clearly he is not one, suggests he's a CC. The content of his movies confirms it.

Moore has only enjoyed success in the past 2 years or so... if you don't think he's a working man, you are sorely mistaken. You should learn more about where he grew up and his life before Bowling for Columbine.

	01-07-2004 00:51									#411
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quote: Originally posted by Sava good point JohnT... commies aren't usually profitable.

Are you telling me you dont know of any rich commies? I think JohnT understood my implication that closet commies are not so idealistic as to forgo their earnings (when they have any).

	01-07-2004 00:53									#412
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Are you telling me you dont know of any rich commies? I think JohnT understood my implication that closet commies are not so idealistic as to forgo their earnings (when they have any).

well not much of what you are saying is making sense... I would liken your views on Moore to the O"reilly disucssion of who is "unpatriotic". Your weak attempt at an ad hominem against Moore only goes to show you are incapable of debating his opinions and talking points.

Perhaps you should see the movie and then try to argue his points, rather than whether or not he's a "closet commie".

	01-07-2004 00:53									#413
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I was wondering, does anyone else envision Ignatius Reilly as basically Micheal Moore?

	01-07-2004 01:08									#414
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quote: I think that's a far more astute and accurate comparasion than Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, but Limbaugh is a much more fun comparison and not that far off either. I consider Stossel and Limbaugh to be somewhat similar, just with different mediums.

quote: except Stossel has some really weird ideas about how good things were pre-New Deal.

And Moore has some really wierd ideas about how bad things are now .

	01-07-2004 01:39									#415
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Are you telling me you don't know of any rich commies? I think JohnT understood my implication that closet commies are not so idealistic as to forgo their earnings (when they have any).

You mean socialist, not communist. And as a socialist he would be bound to pay his fair share of taxes to redistribute the wealth. As long as he has paid his taxes, then he has fulfilled his societal contract. The rest he can keep and be able to sleep at night.

The left wing has nothing against profit in simple concept. The left wing does have a problem with those pursue the all-mighty dollar at the expense of middle-class/poor or the environment.

	01-07-2004 01:41									#416
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH Are you telling me you dont know of any rich commies? I think JohnT understood my implication that closet commies are not so idealistic as to forgo their earnings (when they have any).

Actually, you used the phrase incorrectly. To be "closeted" you have to be something that you refuse to allow the outside world to know... i.e., married gay males who pretend to be fully heterosexual are "in the closet". The more accurate description is that Moore is a closet capitalist.

	01-07-2004 01:51									#417
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I know. Can you imagine the whining and gnashing of teeth on this board if a documentary supporting Dubya actually went into wide release? It'd tear the OT apart. Apart, I tells ya!!!

What about the movie "DC: Time of Crisis"? Did it tear this board apart?

	01-07-2004 01:55									#418
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And Moore has some really wierd ideas about how bad things are now .

for a lot of people... they are

	01-07-2004 01:56									#419
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You're comparing a quickie made-for-TV knockoff, starring such major B and Z-List talent as Timothy Bottoms, Roger Barnes, and Geoffrey Bowes to a major motion picture?

	01-07-2004 02:03									#420
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quote: I know. Can you imagine the whining and gnashing of teeth on this board if a documentary supporting Dubya actually went into wide release? It'd tear the OT apart. Apart, I tells ya!!!

actually... I'd like to see such a movie.

That way I can show the righties how to debunk things. That way they can possibly learn how to debate Moore's points rather than just call him names.