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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Verto
Here's another interesting bit from spinsanity regarding Stupid White Men.
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Consider, for instance, his claim that "two-thirds of [the over $190 million President Bush raised during the presidential campaign] came from just over seven hundred individuals." Given the $2,000 federal limit on individual donations, this claim is obviously false. To back it up, he cites the Center for Responsive Politics Web site (opensecrets.org) and an August 2000 article from the New York Times. As opensecrets.org clearly indicates, however, only 52.6 percent of Bush's total $193 million in campaign funds came from individuals.
The Times article Moore references actually states that 739 people gave two-thirds of the soft money raised by the Republican Party (which uses its money for "party-building" activities that support all GOP candidates, not just Bush) in the 2000 election cycle as of June of that year. Whether out of malice or laziness, Moore conflates the party's soft money with Bush's campaign funds. |
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and once again, this weak Moore critique fails to understand that the $2,000 limit if for individual candidates... not the entire party. Next?
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SpencerH
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Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Having just seen the movie in a packed house, I find that USA Today and all the other counterclaims pretty weak and pathetic.
Did I like the movie? Did I find it powerful? Not much. I find the links he tries to make facile and old-old as in yes, I have seen these links made over and over, and yet I know the truth not to be so simplistic, so no, I don't think it very powerful. NO, this war was not about money or oil, and neither was afghanistan.
MOst of the stuff seen was not new to me- a few things were: this is the only movie out there that shows footage form Iraq as raw as what we saw from Vietnam-no where else do you really see the counsequences of the war besides a few short second after any attack- youo certainly don;t see the amputees or injured soldiers. The video of the public beheading in SA was shocking, though it isn't too graphic. Interestingly, what he shows right at the start about the eletion of 2000, like the vehemence of the protests as Bush was inagurated was new to me-I had never seen that the president's limo was pelted with eggs that day.
Certainly he uses editing to its fullest, and he does make members of the admin. look like fools, which is no shock as many of them are. None of his sequences with the Saudis did much for me- of course anyone heavily invested in the oil industry will be in bed with the Saudis. The Grath revelation was interesting thought.
Maybe I am too cynical, maybe I am too tired of the same old juvenile anti-war arguements that miss the real and important anti-war arguements, the powerful, valid ones, not the facile easy to make but lacking evidence ones to look too deeply into his treatment of the war- but only one thing in the movie had real power for me, Mrs. Lipscomb. Her story, and what she goes through, and specially what happens in DC and the encouter with the pro-Bush woman-that was what hit me. Because for me, that is the great sin of Bush and this war: he used people like her, their patriotism, their faith and trust in our government, and manipulated them into thinking a war of choice was a war of necessity. And it scikens me to this day that some people are still trying to sell me this war as a war of necessity, and that so much of the public is either still fooled, or unwilling to look. |
Surprising, Dr Jekyll must be back 
A few questions/comments:
Now that you've seen it, do you consider it money 'well spent'? It doesnt appear that you'd give it a thumbs-up.
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miss the real and important anti-war arguements," |
That are? (I believe I know what you are refering to but wish to refresh my memory as to your opinion).
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the great sin of Bush and this war: he used people like her, their patriotism, their faith and trust in our government," |
Thats not true if Bush sincerely believed what he was saying, and I think he did.
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Caligastia
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I hear MM ripped off the idea of having a couple of minutes of sounds recorded during 9/11 being played back with a blank screen from some other 9/11 documentary.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by SpencerH
A few questions/comments:
Now that you've seen it, do you consider it money 'well spent'? It doesnt appear that you'd give it a thumbs-up.
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Yes, for one I can now discuss it wihout waiting for third party hearsay. 2, the movie does have funny parts and emotional times, plus pictures from this war you don't see normally.
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That are? (I believe I know what you are refering to but wish to refresh my memory as to your opinion). |
That this is a war of choice, not need. Making it seem like a war of need, the accrimony with allies, the incomplete post-war planning, all of that has made the rgion less stable and more dangerous than it might be otherwise. In terms of final outomces, succedding in Iraq is best possible outcome, not having done anything comes second, failing comes far third-and would make our problems far worse. And the poor handling of this by the admin. makes the worse possible outcome sadly too likely.
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Thats not true if Bush sincerely believed what he was saying, and I think he did. |
Bush is not the same as the amdin. His reasons might not be Rummy's, Dick's or Wolfie's, and they are as resp[onsible for this war as Dubya.
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Caligastia
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best-performing "documentary"
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28-06-2004 08:36
Brilliant!
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