27-06-2004 07:18									#1
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A few days ago, I was on 'Poly (the horror, the horror… ), and I was bored, because not many people were on at that time. Therefore, I decided to check out some old threads in the 'My Threads' section. I came upon Theseus' thread, "Civ III at ‘poly." I was reading as I would ever old thread, thinking things about the posts as I read them, until I read Theseus' post that essentially made me AU Dean/Chancellor, and listed the main ideas at the time. I then started to think what AU has accomplished, and what we have not as well. I blamed the former on outstanding luck, and all of the people who participate in the AU, and I blamed the latter mostly on me.

This thread will not be announcing my resignation, or how I want to apologize because of me not being the best AU Dean as I could have been, but how to improve the AU as a whole. To do this, I will be discussing in this post, the ideas that Theseus talked about, and some new ones. Comments about the ideas, and my comments about these ideas, are not welcome, but encouraged.

Visibility and Tenor- News should be posted when any major event happens, for example, any updates in the AU Mod, and any new courses. This will gain us a few more members, and start getting some advertising up so even the “regulars” will know what’s happening. In addition, when a new AU Course is being created, a thread should be posted in the DG threads, the Strategy forum etc. As well as, other Civ III sites, for example, CGN, and CFC.

Another idea that we have not discussed is possibly getting a site (www.apolyton.net/civ3/au/). What if it could host all the information about the AU, links, information, maybe even some AU DAR’s that were excellent for whatever reason?

Structure- The more structure, the better it is for the AU. Currently, there is an AU Dean, seven panelists, and an AU Dean Assistant. Ducki is currently not able to access Apolyton, due to a computer problem. Depending on how long he will be away, I may need a temporary assistant. I think at this point, the AU Panel is too large. From what I understand from Alexman, is that the AU Mod is in its final stages, so we do not need approval for a change from five people, just three. I also think, that an AU Course Creator, should be elected/appointed. The person would not make all of the courses, but if someone had an idea, and they did not have time to make the scenario, they could contact the Course Creator about it.

AU Stories- This is a project currently in the works. In the Civilization III Stories forum, a group story will be made featuring an AU DAR. The “Story people” have been wanting to do a group story for a long time, might as well have something to do with the AU. In order to make this story, we need to make sure it sticks to what you can do in Civilization III. What we need as soon as possible though is a DAR to base the story on. Preferably, it will be a great war story, possibly a comeback, but anything that is truly an amazing story.

Awards-Should we have awards or not? Tons of different awards we could hand out if that is what we decided. I’m not sure if I think it’s a good idea or not yet. The plus side of awards would be that you would get something for participating, or for making a great a DAR. However, the downside would be, it may intimidate already intimidated beginners. A neutral comment would be that it would make the AU a bit more competitive than it is, not a lot, but something. Awards would be a rather big change, so maybe a poll is necessary, but we will seen the general response it would get.

Introduction Courses-I’m not exactly sure what the “Introduction Courses” would be. Are they courses that are based on basic ideas, like the REX or the "Rush?" If so, I like the idea, and I hope it will take bring some of the newer players to posting. I have an interesting idea that could be implemented in various forms of competitiveness. It just depends on what we decide to do. The basis of the idea is this: Two beginner Civilization III players are selected. They would each play the same course. They would each have their own thread to post their DAR’s. Instead of posting it like regular DAR’s, there would be a certain amount of time for discussion on how to improve the person’s game. I think it would be neat, to see how much better a person could get, in one game. They could even play a game afterwards, to prove, that we were not just instructing them to do what every turn, and they actually learnt something. The next competitive step up would be, at the end, a poll to decide what player improved the most. The next step up in competitiveness would be we divided the AU into two teams; one team would help one player improve and the other team the other player. Either we would poll who improved the most, or I would decide. To make it even more competitive, we could make it a PBEM game, with a few AI’s in it as well.

Comment

	27-06-2004 07:21									#2
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Reserved for Updates

	28-06-2004 00:12									#3
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Personally, I would like to see some (all?) of the AU courses, updated for C3C. I have gone looking at them from time to time, but have decided not to download/try them out because of the effort involved in installing a downgraded/old-patched version of one of the Civ Varients.

With the constant upgrade/patch cycle we have been in over the last few years, it would be nice to have things up-to-date to a certain plataeu, be that C3C 1.22, Civ 3 Complete (when it arrives), or some other arbitrary level. Minimally, I would like to see each game updated to the highest patch level of the release it was intended for, either Civ, PTW, or C3C.

Thanks for Listening.


Kevin

	28-06-2004 00:14									#4
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AFAIK, that would mean re-creating every scenario, which is a lot of work, for not necessarily a really good reason.

	28-06-2004 00:17									#5
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NM, thanks for you compilation !

here some points and comments from me:

quote: Structure

i agree that more is better. one big disadvantage of message boards is the defaul sorting by lats post date. so threads that actually belong together (like AU courses DAR threads) are separated.

to create more structure, we've got 2 options:
a) a homepage, as you proposed
b) topped index threads.

a) needs a lot of work to maintain, but is a lot more flexible and scaleable. not worth it without enough volunteers

b) already exist, but are sometimes quite chaotic. in my opinion, they should only be index/summary threads and posts.
- a bit like alexman's first 4 posts in "Apolyton University Mod: C3C version". such topped threads should be locked for any posts except the manageing author and should only be posted to for notification purposes (eg. new AU mod version).
- "AU History 101" is eg. the wrong name. it's not just history, but also present. just renaming it "AU Games Index" and sorting links by priority (currently 1st game link started 2 years ago). GotM of CFC would be a good role model from presentation point of you

quote: Awards

imho a good idea. which categories still have to be defined.

quote: Introduction Courses

check out the Publicity Stunt thread for some proposals. unfortunatly, there were hardly any reactions. after all, 2 people showed interest being active pupils.

	28-06-2004 00:22									#6
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Maybe a new thread called "Apolyton University Directory" should be made?

	28-06-2004 00:26									#7
	Got spare money?

with the first lines like "this is the information thread of apolyton university. please do not post in this thread, post in the "AU general discussion thread" (with a link to that other thread )

	28-06-2004 00:33									#8
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Exactly No matter if we choose to get a site or not, we need to have the forum organized.

	28-06-2004 01:56									#9
	Re: Re-Vamped and updated Courses Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by kwpulliam1973 Personally, I would like to see some (all?) of the AU courses, updated for C3C. I have gone looking at them from time to time, but have decided not to download/try them out because of the effort involved in installing a downgraded/old-patched version of one of the Civ Varients. With the constant upgrade/patch cycle we have been in over the last few years, it would be nice to have things up-to-date to a certain plataeu, be that C3C 1.22, Civ 3 Complete (when it arrives), or some other arbitrary level. Minimally, I would like to see each game updated to the highest patch level of the release it was intended for, either Civ, PTW, or C3C. Thanks for Listening. Kevin

I too played the old ones long time back and lamented some were not compatible (prior to C3C).

Most can be played with either the CivIII or PTW thought, if not all (I can't remember now).

The problem with redoing them is that the DAR/AAR's would not be relevant and that would spoil things.

The ones that are C3C, but prior to 1.22 are the real problems as those would require a proper patch level, if not 1.22.

Those games are really screwed, because if they were recreated, the impact of the patches could be significant.

One way to semi address this issue in the future is to post the map after the next course comes out. That way players could allows get it to work.

	28-06-2004 03:13									#10
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OK, time to justify my extortionate expenses claims as a member of the AU Mod panel. We've never had to wait long before reaching our quorum of five so there's no real reason to lower that on it's own. I know that we rarely have all seven of us debating an issue. But that would be true even in a panel of three. Since Dominae resigned, only alexman has debated everything as far as I can tell. We've not yet had a situation where those of us who haven't debated have swung the vote in a direction that wasn't fiercely debated in the thread.

If the AU mod is close to completion ( ), then there is little need to change unless this system becomes unworkable. I suspect that a smaller panel would just result in a higher turnover of panelists as there aren't five of us who'd debate every issue all the time. The time w'd need to debate this might be a fair fraction of the work needed to complete the mod.


vmmxa1, I'd definitely prefer new games to be posted as saves and a scenario instead of the recent trend to just saves. At the least, the Warlord-playing lurker would be able to join in without asking.

	28-06-2004 03:25									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Nor Me vmmxa1, I'd definitely prefer new games to be posted as saves and a scenario instead of the recent trend to just saves. At the least, the Warlord-playing lurker would be able to join in without asking.

I suspect you are correct and it would save some of the work that now requires a bunch of saves for each game.

Maybe just releasing the scenario map after a week or two would accomplish both goals. I know many are concerned with the idea that players will be tempted to grab the map, but it is not important. I mean after two weeks DAR/AAR's are showing up with exposures of the map anyway.

	28-06-2004 03:40									#12
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Would it be possible for you guys to touch ALL of the ideas of my post?

	28-06-2004 03:51									#13
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I don't have opinions on most of them or at least nothing worth posting. Other than to say I think you did a good job presenting some cogent ideas and soliciting feedback.

Hopefully you will soon get the kind of input you need, in the mean time I figure it is better to get something, than get nothing.

	28-06-2004 04:32									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

oh, and AU games coming out on a more regular basis would be nice. all GotM participants know exactly when each game starts... every 1st of a month. if AU masters could agree on 1/-2 or 1- or 2-monthly games, it would make things more attractive imho

	28-06-2004 04:36									#15
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I think that monthly games would be nice. That way, people would have more time to play them

	28-06-2004 04:45									#16
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I suspect that a monthly game would be hard to pull off. It would also change the nature of the AU. I say that as I think you could not have a "lession" that frequently.

Maybe once a quarter would work.

	28-06-2004 04:52									#17
	Got spare money?

Once every three months?

	28-06-2004 05:20									#18
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that's a bit too little ... better making games faster instead? that huge map (gargantua?) took too long

or different categories:
- the fast regular games
- the special topic games (eternal war, OCC, etc)
- the timeconsuming games (bigger maps, isolated, etc)

offer the first kind for everybody and the others for the hardcode people who already participate

	28-06-2004 05:29									#19
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What I am saying is you will not have 12 good ideas for lession in a year, will you?

So if you want more than 4 to 6 games, you will have to forego that concept or repeat things. Maybe not, but it is not going all that much faster is it?

Last edited by vmxa1 on 28-06-2004 at 05:38

	28-06-2004 05:33									#20
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Let's compromise and say once every two months?

	28-06-2004 05:38									#21
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vmxa1, i agree, 12 good ideas per year isn't realistic. but special ideas don't have to be every time. sometimes it can just be a regular epic game...

2 months sounds better imho. what is the current rate? at what was it at it's peak?

	28-06-2004 05:46									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

It looks like 23 courses since 101 back in july 2002. So it is nearly once a month.

I did not look to see if they wee in fact all unique games. I seem to recall a few that were redos of earlier games and probably a few other special games.

Maybe an alternation of true lessions and just here is a fun game for this run?

	28-06-2004 07:29									#23
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I like your idea vmxa1. A rotation would work I want to see those intoduction courses done though!

	28-06-2004 07:30									#24
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Oh yes! If there any volunteers for anything I mentioned in the first post, please contact me or post in the thread. Thanks!

	29-06-2004 03:13									#25
	Got spare money?

If redoing all the pre Conquest type courses would be rather difficult, would it be possible to just have the map files reposted for use with Conquest?

I hardly ever post but I will say I have enjoyed them all ( the ones that I have played)

Is it also possible to have smaller maps for a lightning type of AU course....... ie faster games........

Thx to all who have kept the AU courses going.....

	30-06-2004 05:45									#26
	Remove this text

Anyone have anything else to say on the subject?

	30-06-2004 15:19									#27
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Well, yes, if I might...

Structure & visibility:
Should be as easy to navigate as possible, since some of us don't have that much time to spend on the net and want to get to the 'meat'.

An easy-to-access and updated changes for the AU mod in respect of the 'vanilla' game by categories (units, improvements, moves, governements etc.).
The kind you print and keep besides you until you could recite the differences in your sleep...

Awards:
Why not? I would like to suggest to give an award for each (successful) completion of an AU game. Every time you finish an AU course, you get a point. After 3 points, you get your first icon, after 5 or 6, you get an ever 'flashier' one etc. THis should encourage people to play regularly.
Points can also be given according to the level you play: each difficulty level above Regent (?) get a +1 bonus/level.

Specific awards:
Why not start some AU courses based on speed? The fastest lauch, the fastes conquest, the fastes elimination of a specific civ etc.
Specific awards could be given then.

However, I would suggest we keep the award-giving in check. Some of us like to play without too much pressure (I just finished the last AU course yesterday, for instance).

	30-06-2004 15:53									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Mountain Sage (I just finished the last AU course yesterday, for instance).

So where are your DAR's?

I quite like your suggestions MS. The important point being that any points or awards system should be fairly low-key and designed to give an indication of AU seniority (if that is the right term, rather than status...another term may be more appropriate), and trying to avoid any perception of elitism.

This may be a way for newer AU members to get a quick feel for who are the AU regulars, rather than trying to create a "leader board" that is more the style of Civ Fanatics.

	30-06-2004 17:23									#29
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 So where are your DAR's?

Hey!
The game was the easy part. Now I have to sort out all my notes... tomorrow or the day after tomorrow...

	02-07-2004 20:08									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

well, the interest in this thread doesn't seem to be extraordinary. just a few (regular) posters, not many more.

what is actually the aim of AU? i don't mean the standard definitions.
what i mean... should AU become structured, big, public magnet, central to the wellgoing of apolyton? or should it stay as it is now: a place where about 20-30 civ3-pros play a scenario every now and then, and a group that optimizes AI to the maximum possible extent?