01-07-2004 18:05									#1
	The Infotrader/Infiltrator Network - Diplomaty plug-in Enter the AD-FREE zone

This network thread is dedicated to the posting and discussion of our contacts with other factions. So keep it empty untill the Infotrader/Infiltrator (ambassadors) team has something to report.

	27-07-2004 02:00									#2
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well using Maki's end 2119 turn, I called up Mr Yang for a chat. I asked him if he had any other faction comms, and he asked which one I was interested in. I asked for the Gaians. but he didn't have it. Then he had to dash as he hadn't got all day to talk: busy tyrant that he is.

So here's the question.

Is it allowed that my team mates also call up Mr Yang and ask the same question but for a different faction each time.

This way we will learn if Mr Yang has met any other factions (other AI perhaps?).

However if this was not a team MP game, we would only get to ask the question once each turn, before the abrupt sign off. It would take me 5 turns to discover if he has met the Peacekeepers (or whoever) or not. OTOH we are not playing any moves ahead. I chose the Gaians but it could've been any faction and I got lucky.

Lastly we would still need ecs to buy the comm if we wanted it. So at this point it is still just an intelligence gathering exercise.

Note Maki hadn't contacted Yang (unless she did after posting the end turn, but she didn't mention it): I don't believe we discussed it as a play possibility: probably because we thought he might ask for another tech or something vile.

Last edited by Hercules on 27-07-2004 at 02:08

	27-07-2004 16:25									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules Is it allowed that my team mates also call up Mr Yang and ask the same question but for a different faction each time.

Yes

quote: Taken from the rules It is also allowed to use parallel turns of the official game to test out AI diplomacy (with the exception that you can't accept AI world map offers or trades)

	28-07-2004 11:45									#4
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Then let's try it! Use the next turn or this one?

	30-07-2004 02:07									#5
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I have tried 2 out of 3 but Yang doesn't appear to have met any other faction yet.

BUT. Yang has Doc: Flex.

and Here's the interesting bit he was prepared to exchange Doc:Flex for our world map.

Now that poses us some issues down the line (or it did).

Here was the question. If we pass our map to Yang can he pass it on or pass on his map knowledge of the world to others. (I have been led to believe the AI knows all this anyhow, or is it just the AI knows about unit positions, such as probes). If the AI (Yang) is not able to trade maps as per the rules, then we have nothing to lose.

But say, as we intend to, infiltrate Yang and probe rape to the end of tech, there comes the point there is nothing left to steal but the maps. So are maps stealable from the AI.? Thus for example giving us Morgan maps if they traded their maps.

So I am guessing, we can probe Yang for tech and his maps but not trade for them? The point being if we trade our world maps to Yang are they liable to be stolen at some stage down the line.

	30-07-2004 04:06									#6
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As far as I understand it if we trade our map info with Yang, and Yang trades his 'updated' worldmap afterwards with another team, that team knows our position.

I don't think the AI can trade all map info (prior to have received it or scouted it itself) to another faction, but I keep on hearing the AI knows all unit positions, but those positions are NOT traded if he trades map info with a team, so the receiver does not suddenly sees other faction units popping up.

It even get weirder on team vs team basis as far as I noticed.
In a PBEM I trade map info with a pact partner, and I got new map info from his trades with other factions, but NOT with new map info on a black patch of the world I knew he had scouted for a few turns.

Lastly, if Yang has map info on other teams for some reason, and we 'free' his worldinfo we will have the same info he has on the last update he received (probing or trading) from the other factions/teams.

	30-07-2004 06:01									#7
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So the question is. If asked,
Would we trade our map info for Doc: Flex, in the next few years.

	30-07-2004 09:21									#8
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I say yes.

Yang, after all, keeping him friendly and happy is a good thing, and getting some foil probes and foil gunships out to pop pods early, and maybe at least one secret sea colony pod would be great, IMHO.

	30-07-2004 11:41									#9
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Doc:Flex is very tempting.
The same question from the other side:
Can releasing our current map harm our faction very much? Sooner or later others will get the map. Having Doc:Flex early will speed up contact with others - technology trading is a good thing.

	30-07-2004 22:53									#10
	Got spare money?

I've put my opinion as well in the turn thread, but I'm inclined to agree with Mart and FF. Especially since it seems our continent is made like spikes around the Hive nexus. Probe foils will be more usefull then in future if the Hive blocks easy passage.

Make that 3 in favor then.

	31-07-2004 02:16									#11
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Ok But just be careful in the negotiations. It may require the old parallel treatment.

	31-07-2004 08:54									#12
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How went negotionations? Without a hitch?

	31-07-2004 10:26									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I notice Morganites are taking a looong time on thsi turn - perhaps they've met someone?

	31-07-2004 12:11									#14
	Got spare money?

Or the mind worms have found them... It's past 2115 after all, and it sounds like they made the FM SE change... just a minor hunch for the tone of some Morganites posts...

	02-09-2004 13:48									#15
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It appears the Gaians have found us instead of we them. Sloppy work from the infiltration bureau indeed!!

We're all supposed to have received this, but for the record is here the message:

quote: This an automated broadcast for the Gaian Union. The message is being emitted on all frequencies and all of your members should receive it. We have encountered you faction and we wish to establish official diplomatic relations with you. We are a peaceful nation, dedicated to preservation of the environment, progress and growth. We have no ill intentions towards you and we look forward to cooperation with you. We appreciate your tendencies for freedom and free flow of information. You tendencies for a free society is much like our own, and your preferences for democratic system is also notable. However we are worried about your hacking tendencies and we warn you not to try to disrupt flow of information in Gaian Union. If we pool our resources we could create a hybrid block that would ensure prosperity of both of our peoples and would successfully stand firm to any opposition from other factions. We are interested in research cooperation and establishing trade routes. We will appoint ambassador to your nation, and in the meantime, we ask you to direct all communication to us towards our Lord of Diplomacy Octavian X, and to Chairman of the High Council Lord Chaos Theory

So, I'll open the turn shortly to see were they are.
How is our stance with the Gaians gonna be? Friendly, hostile or backstabbing (sooner instead of near-end game)?

	02-09-2004 13:59									#16
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I would say - Friendly. We need friends now for faster rise to power.

	02-09-2004 15:22									#17
	Put an end to popups!

Definitely friendly, I am happy to agree to research co-operation. We can't have perma pact but we can suggest pact for 20 /30/ 40 years. This will need polled when we hear their views.

We also need to find out what techs thay have and tell them what we have.

Does our ethos of free flow of information mean we trade all our techs to them even if they have only one to offer us. Or is it to be a tech for tech exchange.
A further consideration is reaching agreement on who tries to build what SPs.


Also do they have the any other faction (AI) comm to exchange.

Lastly for the moment, do we want to exchange maps?

Some of these questions I know can't be answered immediately but overall I suggest we are positive.

	02-09-2004 15:25									#18
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Who is our Ambassador btw. Geo and or Trithimus. Except we haven't heard from some of our colleagues for some while.

This is an exciting phase.

	02-09-2004 15:30									#19
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Return message proposal, in my function as Infotrader:

Don't tell me I wasnt quick, Herc...

quote: The Data Angels greet warmly their fellow humans of the Gaian Union on this new world. The values you endorse in your message are mostly, if not all, in coherence with our own, so we do think a close cooperation between our factions is possible. To reassure you, The Angels stance towards the free flow of information is only implemented if dearly necessary as in cases where faction leaders flatly refuse to share information generously with their fellow kin. As a start we gladly accept your proposal of a close Treaty with us and start commerce, no doubt mutual research cooperation can be reached as well in the not so far future. We politely request that you withdraw your units from our territory and refrain from opening any starship Unity pods within our borders. Due to our current relations, presence of your units in our territory causes difficulties in using our communication trails. Opening further starship Unity pods endangers our bases and non-military units in the field by exposing them to native planet life attacks. We have already noticed missing pod within our borders. In return we offer to respect Gaian territorial borders in the same way. Sincerely, Infotrader GeoModder

Comments and grammar corrections are most welcome.

	02-09-2004 15:44									#20
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But Doc:Flex is a must have for us now with the landbridge continuously blocked, I'm prepared to give IndAuto for that if necessary. But I wonder, the Gaians have all techs towards IndAuto AND Doc:Mob+Doc:Flex? They're ahead of us then...

	02-09-2004 15:47									#21
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How about the last paragraf this way:

quote: We politely request that you withdraw your units from our territory and refrain from opening any starship "Unity" pods within our borders. Due to our current relations, presence of your units in our territory causes difficulties in using our communication trails. Opening starship "Unity" pods endangers our bases and non-military units in the field by exposing them to native planet life attacks. In return we offer to respect Gaian territorial borders in the same way.

Maybe let's resign from indicating missing pod. They did it when not aware of our borders.

	02-09-2004 15:49									#22
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Trade Doc:Mobility and Doc:Flex
for Ind Auto and hive commlink

I think it's worth it. Any other bets?

	02-09-2004 16:02									#23
	Got spare money?

Why not sth like this: they agree to give over control of a rover to us and Doc:Flex for IndAuto and the Commlink?

We save the research costs then of Doc:Mob.

For Intellectual Integrity we can always try to 'borrow' Doc:Loy from the Hive in the future. The landbridge won't be blocked forever...

And I think we MUST mention the missing pod somehow so that they will not think we don't know the positions of them so might try to sneak some more away.

	02-09-2004 16:08									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If they sneak a pod that would be violation of the treaty and we would require reparations

	02-09-2004 16:10									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Doc:Flex definitely. Good idea about rover except I think it's a unity rover same as we have already, so doesn't come with Doc:Mob
The Gaians have not met any of the other human factions either.

	02-09-2004 16:16									#26
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I think Mart's amendment is tactful, Maybe add 'further' before starship unity pods To read:
............and refrain from opening any further starship "Unity" pods within our borders.

	02-09-2004 16:16									#27
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After some thoughts, why not just to write:

quote: We politely request that you withdraw your units from our territory and refrain from opening any starship "Unity" pods within our borders. Due to our current relations, presence of your units in our territory causes difficulties in using our communication trails. Opening starship "Unity" pods endangers our bases and non-military units in the field by exposing them to native planet life attacks. We have already noticed missing pod within our borders. In return we offer to respect Gaian territorial borders in the same way.

	02-09-2004 16:43									#28
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But Herc, that means then that the Gaians have acquisioned (spelling?) Doc:Flex from an early pod pop. The rover is hardened btw, so it must have or 2 upgrades if constructed by them, or 1 monolith upgrade.

In any way, I agree with Marts' latest change for the diplo message. Can I sent it through then or do we wait for more opinions?

Also, can I accept the Treaty proposal then in the turn?

I implemented both your suggestions in the message proposal I posted earlier.

	02-09-2004 19:37									#29
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Ok, forwarded the message above with all the corrections suggested towards Chaos Theory and Octavian X.

	03-09-2004 19:26									#30
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And both the recipients have seen our diplomatic response.