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mart7x5 is offline mart7x5
King

Sep 2002
time: 22:37
  Old Post 12-09-2004 18:08
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Maybe I will write in advance here, but Gaians seem to be very much interested in Biogenetics.

That would speed up nutrient restrictions lift.
1. Biogenetics (from Gaians)
2. Ethical Calculus - research after Adaptive Economics is done
3. Gene Splicing

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 12-09-2004 19:33
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Yes, Biogen is important, but IndAuto even more (at least IMO).

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
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Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 12-09-2004 20:13
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Ok, Illu is on the track. they asked if we already had Biogen or not. I decided in this case to tell them we don't have it (yet, sortlike) and swung out a few additional baitlines.

FlameFlash is offline FlameFlash
Emperor
Minnesota, USA
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 12-09-2004 20:39 Visit FlameFlash's homepage!
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Looks good! I like the idea of helping the catch up (if that's the case) and then a mutual tech trade scheme. Especially if they're willing to map trade as well (we can subsequently infiltrate them to make sure that they stay honest.)

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
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Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 12-09-2004 21:49
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Things are proceeding almost embarrisingly fast (spelling, I guess? )

The latest (double quoted is my text):

quote:
quote:
Greetings, Lord Illuminatus!

I can give you a short answer on this one: no, the Data Angels are not in the possession of Biogenetics, so it can be part of a tech trade.

In case our proposal of IndAuto for a low level tech (like Biogenetics) and a unit of our choice (only units the Gaian Union already owns, mind you) is a bit hard to swallow, please let us know. We have quite a few other possibilities to offer in that case.


Your proposal is being taken in consideration, but you should note that most of Lords, including our ambassador to You, is occupied with recreational runing through trees, which occurs regulary every weekend, so it will still take some time before we can give you a definite answer, most probably some time tommorow. We apologize for all past and future delays caused by this. We will try to inform you as soon as our decision has been made.

quote:
Also, a question. After some data processing it has come up that the speed at which the Union wishes to acquire Biogenetics indicates that the Gaian Lord of Progress has already decided on a beeline to Bio-engineering. May we know if this assumption has any ground?

This question is also asked for our preliminary setup of a joint research project. Our current project is also in an advanced state so it is wise to discuss agreements regarding this.

Regards,
InfoTrader GeoModder


I do not have authorisation to directly answer you that question, but I do have a proposal in this spirit too: it is in interests of Gaian Union wishes to cooperate with Data Angels, and research cooperation should be one of objectives. What I propose is a treaty between Data Angels and Gaian Union - if you are willing to sign it, I am sure our High Council and Lady Deirdre will sign it too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Treaty of Rock-Paper-Scissors

Respective factions of Data Angels and Gaian Union, and their representatives which have met in Angel town of Rock-Paper-Scissors, have agreed to a mutual trade and research pact, in interests of deeper cooperation and friendship between their nations. Terms of the treaty are as following:

1) Both of the signatories agree to mutual cooperation in research and sharing of information.

2) Both of the signatories agree to immediately share all data about technologies they posses, technologies currently being developed as well estimated years of their completion.

3) Both of the signatories agree to share their future plans for research and beelines.

4) Both of the signatories agree to mutually assist one another in research and conduct joint research projects.

5) Both of the signatories agree to inform one another as soon as possible if they receive technology through unexpected events, such as receiving them via Unity Pods, trade with other factions or unexpected breakthroughs.

6) Terms of this Treaty will be set in motion with signing of the treaty.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terms are negotiable. I am sure that your positive response will be followed by positive response of Gaian Union. I will propose this to our High Council too.

Lord Administrator Illuminatus

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 12-09-2004 21:52
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So, they want an explicit Treaty, and they cover themselves for any tech we might disclose due to us having infiltration.

What is the stance of our members here? I suppose it's for us (Mart, FlameFlash, me and perhaps Maki) to vote on this one. The other are a bit too inactive to be expected around now (or on vacation of course).

Edit: I've asked if this is a Pact proposal or merely stating the exact terms of our current Treaty.

Last edited by GeoModder on 12-09-2004 at 22:01

mart7x5 is offline mart7x5
King

Sep 2002
time: 22:37
  Old Post 13-09-2004 05:14
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For me it looks reasonable. One thing I think is important - we need friends. If Spartans come to a close cooperation with Morganities, for example, we and Gaians will be loosing a lot by not cooperating. I would however include a paragraph, that requires both sides fair trade. E.g. not like one side shares 2 techs and the other 1 tech only, coz it has 1 only at the moment. If there is not equal value in techs, other compensation should be in order. Having techs from 3 infiltrated factions is our bonus, let's not give it away cheap. They have other bonuses too, so let them share it if they have no good techs at the moment. If we state smth like that clearly, they should feel respected by Data Angels, I think. It will help to avoid negative feelings about value of exchanged techs. There might be cases when one side might lack any resources, but credit might be established.
What is your oppinion?

Hercules is also often around.

about current tech trade talks:
Giving Ind Auto now to Gaians, so they do not research this, but get Biogenetics, which in return they give to us is kinda a must. We both would be inefficient if making otherwise.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 13-09-2004 13:30
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I know that Herc comes in offen, but this Treaty will probably be signed way before September 19th, when he returns.

I agree with both your remarks (equal future trade and current tech exchange) but try my best to have that foil.

I start reasoning when we come to that point for it is in both our wellfares research wise.

Drogue is offline Drogue
Emperor
Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 13-09-2004 17:03 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
I agree with both your remarks (equal future trade and current tech exchange) but try my best to have that foil.

You're diplomacy style does seem to bear strong resemblance to a certain Spartan I worked with before It really is uncanny in places

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 13-09-2004 21:34
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Hey, I nurtured his interests in these sort of things.

Drogue is offline Drogue
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Oct 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 13-09-2004 21:55 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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Starting wars? Although in truth, and quite out of character, I was the one that kept it going

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 13-09-2004 23:12
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Against the Nautilus Pirates at the time you mean? Remember where you are now...

And I do have my swings at times regarding violent behaviour...
Remember my 'tactical analysis' in II?

Drogue is offline Drogue
Emperor
Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 13-09-2004 23:49 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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Yes I do. Good times

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 14-09-2004 15:56
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Not much more to report on the diplo front: they offered that darn Spore Launcher in combination with Biogenetics. I counter proposed for the foil and Biogenetics (borrow it or increase our offer with a comlink).

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 14-09-2004 16:16
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Ok, they offer ALL their units in our territory THIS turn and Biogen later in return for IndAuto in our turn. Unity foil is out of the question appearantly.

I'm inclined to accept this, it gives us 1 unit more and an extra rover for controlling that Hive Synth. We might persuade them then to research Doc:Mob after they finish Biogen.

O yes, they're curious at who we have a comlink of.


As for the Joint Research treaty Illu has proposed, after some questioning of the exact phrasing it sounds ok to me.

How about you guys, do we accept it or not.
My vote is yes for the IndAuto deal and for the Joint Research Treaty.

Edit: updated the IA deal.

Last edited by GeoModder on 14-09-2004 at 17:41

mart7x5 is offline mart7x5
King

Sep 2002
time: 22:37
  Old Post 14-09-2004 17:41
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I vote both yes.

Makahlua is offline Makahlua
Queen
Republic of Texas....er I mean the 28th state in the Union ^^
Sep 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 14-09-2004 17:55 Visit Makahlua's homepage!
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Looks good from here too - Gaians were our most liekly ally anyway

But get that foil from them - I wanna go parasailing!

Eidt: by which I mean get it in the future, the current stuff looks good

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 14-09-2004 18:35
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ok, we got already a majority in favour then.

Let's wait a bit so FlameFlash can have his say too (if he pops in today).

Edit:

I'm editing quite a bit lately for disguising we're discussing things (and I offen post in the ACDG forum for disguising your posts ).

Ok, business. I'm pretty much convinced that the Spartans and the Gaians have met as well. Both Kassi and GT are posting on Eventis but their posts are hidden. I can't see any Morgans registered, nor are the registered members of Eventis likely cover DL's for them. In one of the diplo messages Illu drops the hint that their foil is scouting 'the eastern reaches', and the Gaians are most likely east of us as well. So I think that they've met over a sea between them. This also means that the Gaians will try trade double (IndAuto with us, and sth else for that with the Spartans). I suggest we try to let the Gaians research Doc:Mob while we finish Prog Psych and continue on AdapEcon and finally switch to Doc:Flex by a later trade of Doc:Mob with the Gaians then.

Last edited by GeoModder on 14-09-2004 at 18:49

Drogue is offline Drogue
Emperor
Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 14-09-2004 19:32 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GeoModder
Ok, business. I'm pretty much convinced that the Spartans and the Gaians have met as well. Both Kassi and GT are posting on Eventis but their posts are hidden. I can't see any Morgans registered, nor are the registered members of Eventis likely cover DL's for them.

Geo: Kassi has been registered on Eventis since before I was. I will make no comment on private forums, nor who has met who, however I will say that Eventis is used as private forums for many games, both from other games, DGs, and other team games. Read into the registrations what you will, but wrt Eventis, there is always more than one conclusion, especially with 10% of the sites members being Jag, and another 5% or so each for Tass, Verto and TTO.

FlameFlash is offline FlameFlash
Emperor
Minnesota, USA
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 15-09-2004 09:34 Visit FlameFlash's homepage!
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It sounds good... has the extra stuff Mart recommended been added to the treaty besides just sweetening the immediate deal with a few extra units?

I like the IA deal, but I would like to see the Mart provision added to the tech treaty, we will, after all, have an advantage in tech over them once we can get infiltration.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 15-09-2004 18:34
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The tech treaty is, as it is now, about informing the other party of any new tech acquired in whatever way and setting up a joint research project.

There is no clausule which forces to trade techs on a unequal exchange system. So acquiring tech and bartering over it are separated at this point.

FlameFlash is offline FlameFlash
Emperor
Minnesota, USA
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 16-09-2004 06:18 Visit FlameFlash's homepage!
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good, better confirm that's their interpretation of it, and then I'll happily jump on board.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 16-09-2004 19:07
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Ok, this is the latest Treaty draft I posted in Eventis.

quote:
The Data Angels can agree with this, the Gaian proposal is made a bit more clearly, noteworthy point 2:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Treaty of Rock-Paper-Scissors

Respective factions of Data Angels and Gaian Union, and their representatives which have met in Angel town of Rock-Paper-Scissors, have agreed to a mutual trade and research pact, in interests of deeper cooperation and friendship between their nations. Terms of the treaty are as following:

1) Both of the signatories agree to mutual cooperation in research.

2) Both of the signatories agree to immediately announce to the other signatorie which technologies they posses, technologies currently being developed as well estimated years of their completion and keep the other side updated whenever status changes ("status change" means an event when one side either: 1. unexpectedly achieves a tech, 2. acquires a tech by trade, 3. the turn time to completion of a tech changes nonlineary (not -1/turn).)

3) Both of the signatories agree to share their future plans for research and beelines.

4) Both of the signatories agree to mutually assist one another in research and conduct joint research projects.

5) Terms of this Treaty will be set in motion with signing of the treaty.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What do ye say?

IT GeoModder

FlameFlash is offline FlameFlash
Emperor
Minnesota, USA
Dec 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 17-09-2004 09:54 Visit FlameFlash's homepage!
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I like

Sorry to be so anal, just a little paranoid after being a pirate, I guess.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 17-09-2004 15:16
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No prob, if you one day check the diplo thread on Eventis you should read my paranoia behind the polite questions.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 18-09-2004 04:22
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Okay, for since the Treaty is accepted, can I post this?

quote:
To the Lord of Progress.

The rapidly increasing Angel database consists the following technologies:
Centauri Ecology, Industrial Base, Industrial Economics, Industrial Automation, Information Networks and Planetary Networks. Soon we expect to have Biogenetics and Progenitor Psych as well.

May we ask a list of your department for confirmation?

IT GeoModder

mart7x5 is offline mart7x5
King

Sep 2002
time: 22:37
  Old Post 18-09-2004 04:49
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Are we going to stress them with word "rapidly".

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 18-09-2004 05:14
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GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 18-09-2004 23:45
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News from the diplo front. The Gaians bad luck could be our luck.

quote:

There was obviously a misunderstanding in our communication, I guess we did not make it clear enough when we will receive Biogenetics. Estimation is fine, we need to research an option or two and make a poll about research. Our prefered beeline is not possible, and our tech choices are interesting - we will explore an option of a beeline with you, and then make a poll. I must say that Doctrine: Flexibility sound interesting. I will contact you soon. Oh, and everything went well - you will receive Biogenetics this turn.

-Lord Illuminatus

P.S. - you will notice something interesting when you receive your turn. Morgan has started Virtual World. Just to give you sth to do while you wait for out turn to be finished.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:37
  Old Post 18-09-2004 23:47
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And here is a follow-up:

quote:

We considered options and we have a short poll running for a day, but in any case I believe we will acknowledge your request and help you get to Doctrine Flexibility. I will inform you when it is offical, and when we can start negotiating about our next trade.

Walk with Planet Datajack, - Lord Illuminatus


For once sth that goes well in our diplomatic affairs.

 
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