08-07-2004 01:04									#151
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger BK uses the New International Version, not the King James version.

The supposed 'word of god' is open to subjective human re-interpretation?

	08-07-2004 01:06									#152
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Arrest me and throw away the key

Gladly.

	08-07-2004 01:13									#153
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Asher!

	08-07-2004 01:15									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ben should play this up some more, it shows just how utterly stupid, inhumane, and socially reprehensible the real "tumours of society" are -- this is somebody preaching to people, including children.

This guy is a disgrace, just like virtually every other hate-mongering "Christian" ****er.

	08-07-2004 01:34									#155
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Flinx The supposed 'word of god' is open to subjective human re-interpretation?

Depends on who you ask. Some churches believe the Bible is the perfect and complete Word of God, containing all revelation and scripture.

	08-07-2004 02:05									#156
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

That could work either way...it may be lying with the woman that is detestable and that you should show far more affection and attention to the man

	08-07-2004 02:06									#157
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Technically, I can be arrested, by this precedent for my response to Lancer's thread on homosexuality. I cobbled together the biblical passages on homosexuality then. However, back then, Bill C-250 was not legal here in Canada. So I could not be charged. All right. I'll be right back. Time to let them build a proper case for hate speech here in Canada.

So should I take Ben up on his dare and report him to the RCMP?

	08-07-2004 02:18									#158
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Let me tell you a story... I remember my second year in my dorm, where the boys on the floor had a penchant for blue movies. One of the girls who was there, we encouraged to watch the movie with us despite her desires. We told her that she would have nothing to lose by watching the movie. Now, this girl is one of my close friends, who I know is a Catholic, and has helped me many times in the years past. I'm ashamed, and I apologised to her for my actions. I now understand why it was wrong for me to act in this way. I wouldn't argue against porn just because it involves lesbians, but because it is very difficult for people to tear themselves away. I know, I've been there.

You are so puritanical...I have never come across anything so ridiculous. It's porn dammit, good to w@nk to, you know...could even help in the battle against the evil promiscuous sex you know

	08-07-2004 02:19									#159
	Put an end to popups!

pr0n

	08-07-2004 02:19									#160
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Thorn Why the hell is Ben Kenobi so OBSESSED with bothering gays, doesn't he have anything better to do, to condemn, like those guys choping people's heads off in the middle east.

Have any of you seen 'American Beauty'?

	08-07-2004 02:26									#161
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I find it so annoying. So much work in recent history has been done to remove the barriers, to make homosexuality acceptable in modern society, for complete parity of homosexual couples and to put an end to the prejudices. But Christianity has this nasty knack of holding things back with it's antiquated dogma, it's hatefulness and it's being a major force of conservatism...

	08-07-2004 02:41									#162
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The Blue Movie story is interesting:

Ben - feels ashamed and apologizes to the girl.

Me - I would try to get the girl to re-enact scenes from the movie.

	08-07-2004 02:49									#163
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You know what they say about Catholic girls?

	08-07-2004 02:58									#164
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm pretty bad . . . . .

I'm still having trouble sympathizing with Ben's concern over this issue.



Oh wait . . . . . could it be because he has shown so many times in the past blatant disrespect for the dignity of gays?

	08-07-2004 03:39									#165
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I wouldn't argue against porn just because it involves lesbians, but because it is very difficult for people to tear themselves away. I know, I've been there.

I am 99.99% certain that the women in any porn you saw were not lesbians. Porn made by and for lesbians is nothing like the woman-on-woman-action that appears in porn for the straight male market (so all of my lesbian friends tell me).

Gay porn ironically (or actually, not unexpectedly, since it is directed at a male audience) is mostly like straight porn but without women.

[St. Peter at the pearly gates]
…
x Gay
x Had gay sex willingly
x Watched porn
x Watched gay porn
x Watched gay porn and
x often
…
[/St. Peter at the pearly gates]
[Me waiting for St. Peter to get through the list]
I wonder if 250 is considered par in heaven?
[/Me waiting for St. Peter to get through the list]

	08-07-2004 03:43									#166
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy BK: Why do you hate sin so much?

He gets to have so little of it.


The difference between Obi Gyn and his chosen deity is that his god would never have the temerity to imagine he's Obi Gyn.

	10-07-2004 09:55									#167
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: He gets to have so little of it.

Or enough to know that I'm not happy doing these things.

quote: The difference between Obi Gyn and his chosen deity is that his god would never have the temerity to imagine he's Obi Gyn.

Well, at least I wouldn't consider myself Joyce.

	10-07-2004 09:59									#168
	Support Apolyton

quote: I am 99.99% certain that the women in any porn you saw were not lesbians.

Their nipples didn't seem to say that.

quote: Porn made by and for lesbians is nothing like the woman-on-woman-action that appears in porn for the straight male market (so all of my lesbian friends tell me).

At least I can speak personally that lesbians come in all shapes and sizes.

quote: Gay porn ironically (or actually, not unexpectedly, since it is directed at a male audience) is mostly like straight porn but without women.

Well, if you're the expert...

quote: I wonder if 250 is considered par in heaven?

Yeah, the best part is that everyone fails that test at the end, and then it's up to God whether or not we see ourselves through.

All we can do is trust in him.

	10-07-2004 10:01									#169
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Oh wait . . . . . could it be because he has shown so many times in the past blatant disrespect for the dignity of gays?

One could hope that you could look beyond your own ideology, and have compassion for others on the opposite side.

Sad to see that's not true...

	10-07-2004 10:06									#170
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: The Blue Movie story is interesting: Ben - feels ashamed and apologizes to the girl.

Didn't happen for some time, until I became a Christian, and we got to know each other better. More than a year.

She also was one of the first Christians to encourage me in my beliefs, so I'm quite thankful to her.

quote: I would try to get the girl to re-enact scenes from the movie.

I would have said the same back then. She has rather long legs, and didn't mind showing them off.

I saw more when I knew her better, because she could trust me not to make a big deal about it.

	10-07-2004 10:09									#171
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Have any of you seen 'American Beauty'?

So I'm a gay man working out my frusterations?

That allusion has only two problems.

First, I'm not in the military, nor do I have a doting wife that I neglect through my lack of desire.

	10-07-2004 10:12									#172
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: So should I take Ben up on his dare and report him to the RCMP?

Go right ahead.

File the report, and I will give you any information you need for this purpose.

I will do so, only if you can show me the evidence that the report has been filed, and that they have asked you for the information.

I don't care what you do to me, Flinx, because the law is wrong, and ought to be changed.

	10-07-2004 10:19									#173
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: The supposed 'word of god' is open to subjective human re-interpretation?

That's why they pay a pastor big bucks, to help people interpret Scripture.

Interpretation is not only helpful, but necessary, since many things that you would otherwise miss can be brought to light.

While I agree that Scripture ought to be considered the word of God, it helps to have someone with more experience lead the way.

As for the differences between the translations, I would suggest that you read both and come back to me and report any substantive differences between the two. I will be more than happy to discuss this issue, but it seems best to leave this to another thread.

I prefer the NIV, because my pastor in my mennonite church uses it, and because I have found it much more accessible than the KJV.

Ironically, my first bible was the KJV, and I have found it easier to understand now that I have some familiarity with scripture.

	10-07-2004 10:25									#174
	Got spare money?

Kudos to Ben for withstanding the PC onslaught

	10-07-2004 10:27									#175
	Remove this text

quote: Why the hell is Ben Kenobi so OBSESSED with bothering gays, doesn't he have anything better to do, to condemn, like those guys choping people's heads off in the middle east.

If they are willing to send me to jail for 'bothering gays' then it's hardly an obsession to bring this issue up.

quote: Last time I checked even under some subjective christian discipline murder is worse then homosexuality....

According to Christians? That's an interesting question. One can just as easily be forgiven of murder, as one would be for sodomy.

quote: Ben can't you live and let live, Jesus was teaching that....

Jesus did not say this... He overturned the tables in the temples rather than live and let live. He was willing to confront sin, and to help people when he could. If he said that we should just live and let live, why would he be crucified?

quote: why not listen to what he said, instead of what other people said he said...

And how does one determine where one ends and the other begins?

quote: Ben, do you condemn hindu's, muslims, wiccans to the same degree?

I spend much more time working on things with respect to abortion than I do with gay marriage. Much more time. So I would ask you to reconsider your question; you should be thankful that I do not even devote the greatest portion of my time to this one issue, if you already find my attention difficult.

	10-07-2004 10:33									#176
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

However,

quote: I still can say that homosexuality is a sin.

Based on what? I've asked this before, why is it a sin? Citing Paul or a mis-reading (hell, even if it's accurate) of the Bible's story regarding Sodom doesn't prove anything. If I accuse someone of immorality I need to support my assertion with logic... Pointing to someone else who may hace said it is a sin isn't proof...

	10-07-2004 10:43									#177
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sorry for not replying earlier.

I'm done work today so I have some time. Before I was under time pressure, and I figured it would take close to half an hour to reply to your post alone.

It's not as if I can count on help along the way.

quote: Citing Paul or a mis-reading (hell, even if it's accurate) of the Bible's story regarding Sodom doesn't prove anything.

Then I need an answer from you what you would consider proof. You have rejected my earlier statements on the grounds that they do not meet your earlier requirements without spelling out what you require.

I can only try to prove things, I cannot determine for you what constitutes proper proof.

	10-07-2004 10:43									#178
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: One can just as easily be forgiven of murder, as one would be for sodomy.

Why would one need to forgive sodomy? If there are no victims, no forgiveness is needed. That's the nature of trespasses - there are people who've been trespassed upon.

quote: Jesus did not say this...

Do unto others...

quote: He overturned the tables in the temples rather than live and let live.

Those people were trespassing and selling indulgences.

quote: He was willing to confront sin, and to help people when he could.

And he was without sin, a status you claim we lack.

quote: If he said that we should just live and let live, why would he be crucified?

Because alot of people didn't want to live and let live.

	10-07-2004 10:44									#179
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Well, at least I wouldn't consider myself Joyce.

William Joyce, possibly.


James Joyce's humanity is entirely lacking in you.

	10-07-2004 10:48									#180
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: If there are no victims, no forgiveness is needed. That's the nature of trespasses - there are people who've been trespassed upon.

I disagree with you.

Consider this. If you break something that is not your property, have you not trespassed against the owner of that property?

Ergo, if by my earlier argument that you are not your own, then all the sins you commit against your own body constitute a trespass against the true owner.

quote: Do unto others

And how is that the equivalent of live and let live? This is a command to do good to others because you would want good to be done to you.

Live and let live cannot promote people to be kind to each other, all it can do is promote indifference to the plight of others.

Christianity has greater concern for people than a live and let live philosophy.

quote: And he was without sin, a status you claim we lack.

Like a drowning man, only he can pull us off the bank. We should accept help for sin from the man who is without.

Do you believe that you are not full of sin, Berzerker?

Why was he crucified?

Because he was not willing to live and let live, but confronted the authorities both religious and secular.