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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > NLRB: Grad students in private universities lose the right to unionize!
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Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:20 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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NLRB: Grad students in private universities lose the right to unionize! Remove this text

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/16/e...on/16union.html

quote:
The fast-growing movement to unionize graduate students at the nation's private universities suffered a crushing setback yesterday when the National Labor Relations Board reversed itself and ruled that students who worked as research and teaching assistants did not have the right to unionize.

In a case involving Brown University, the labor board ruled 3 to 2 that graduate teaching and research assistants were essentially students, not workers, and thus should not have the right to unionize to negotiate over wages, benefits and other conditions of employment.

The Republican-controlled board reversed a four-year-old decision involving New York University, a private institution, in which the board, then controlled by Democrats, concluded that graduate teaching and research assistants should be able to unionize because their increased responsibilities had essentially turned them into workers.


I hate this government so very much.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:23 Visit Dis's homepage!
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wah!

Kids today. They don't want to put in their dues.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:25 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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What the hell are you talking about?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:27
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WTF is wrong? Next you know, high schoolers would be unionizing and making demands over homework

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:30 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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You're obviously not in the least aware of what grad students do.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:30
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Put an end to popups!

Lab work, to get their PhD.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:39 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

1. The work isn't necessarily "lab work."
2. The work doesn't necessarily go to writing a Masters/Doctoral thesis.

Anyways, that was a statement of fact, not a question.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:41 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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What the hell do grad students need a union for anyway?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 04:42 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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To bargain over wages, working conditions, health care, administrative practices, etc., etc. The same reasons any other group of workers would need a union for.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 05:14 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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cept you aren't workers

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 05:21 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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I won't be one for another year. And the only measure through which they're not workers is the NLRB's dumbass ruling.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 05:26 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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What exactly do you call teaching a class or assisting a professor's research, if not working?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 05:29
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Studying?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 05:30 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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That's idiotic. If teaching and assisting in research are "studying" instead of "working," then there's no such thing as "working."

Last edited by Ramo on 18-07-2004 at 05:36

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 05:40 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
What exactly do you call teaching a class or assisting a professor's research, if not working?


An opportunity ?

You could always flip burgers if you want...

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 05:55 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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And I see that you can always be an ******* if you want... On second thought, you might not have on option in the matter.

So your conclusion is what? Because you consider being a grad student a better opportunity than flipping burgers, grad students ought not have the right to unionize?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:04 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Assistantships are a REWARD, they are a rare opportunity that students compete for, the equivalent of an internship.

You should be happy that you get paid at all for the experience.

Spoiled brat.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:14 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Yes, clearly only the independently wealth deserve to get a graduate degree.

Self-righteous *****.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:18
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"work study" is just a way for companies to get cheap labor.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:21 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Yes, clearly only the independently wealth deserve to get a graduate degree.

Self-righteous *****.


True, I'm sure things such as scholarships, grants, loans, and part time jobs, don't exist.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:28 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Scholarships, etc. are for undergrads.

And teaching/research assistantships are the part-time jobs for grad students. That's the point. How are grad students supposed to make a living if they shouldn't even get paid for that?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:31 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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????

You can still get all of those things as a grad student.

Apocalypse is offline Apocalypse
King
Lexington, VA: College - Houston, TX: Home
Aug 2005
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:35
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I've heard of grad scholarships. And Ramo...if you don't have time for a part time job, what are you doing here?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 06:50 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:
And Ramo...if you don't have time for a part time job, what are you doing here?


Where did I say that I don't have a part-time job? I work 20 hours a week, thanks.

Again, I just am saying that I want the right to organize with my fellow employees, and collectively bargain with my school.

quote:
????

You can still get all of those things as a grad student.


In physics, my understanding is that's not a main source of funding (or at least, it's not enough to live on).

loinburger is offline loinburger
Emperor
Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 08:35 Visit loinburger's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Lab work, to get their PhD.

The research I did for my assistantship and the research I did for my master's thesis were independent of each other. My advisor was contracted to do some research for an aerospace company, and I was then essentially sub-contracted to do the actual research. But, since I was ostensibly working only 30 hours a week (except for the weeks that I worked 30+ hours, of course) and was a full-time student at the same time, I guess I wasn't doing "real" work. I must have been "studying" for, umm, the classes that I was taking that had nothing whatsoever to do with the research I was doing for my assistantship. **** on a shingle, man, where do you get your information from?

quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
An opportunity?

Does this argument apply to every non-burger-flipping job, or only to graduate research/teaching positions? In other words, should every union (except perhaps the "brotherhood of burger-flippers", though it could be argued that they should be grateful for the opportunity to be employed in the lucrative career of burger-flipping) be illegalized on the grounds that the job being unionized is better than a job flipping burgers?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 08:53
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No, but the primary purpose of graduate research is working towards one's graduate degree (even if the research isn't directly related to your thesis, that is why you're doing it).

loinburger is offline loinburger
Emperor
Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 08:56 Visit loinburger's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
No, but the primary purpose of graduate research is working towards one's graduate degree

The primary reason I did graduate research was so that I could afford to eat while I was in school.

Besides, if what you say were true, then there wouldn't be such a thing as post-doctoral research assistants.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
No, but the primary purpose of graduate research is working towards one's graduate degree


No.

The primary purpose of graduate research is to do the professor's dirty work for him. IOW, get whipped into shape to be a lab technician when you graduate.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 09:04 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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quote:

Besides, if what you say were true, then there wouldn't be such a thing as post-doctoral research assistants.


But you see, having a post-doc is a priviledge, interning for a permanent position. Their bosses are really just doing them a favor, so they should be required to give fellatios.

loinburger is offline loinburger
Emperor
Sweet Sauce Jones
Jul 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-07-2004 09:12 Visit loinburger's homepage!
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Oh great, I'm agreeing with a communist and an anarchist.

 
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