19-07-2004 08:53									#91
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I can name 10 people off the top of my head who have done it. None of them complained about it. Maybe I should bring up the subject and revisit their terrible oppression. But I don't want to bring back terrible oppressed memories.

So cry me a bigger river.

	19-07-2004 08:58									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Nah you have one experience and want to say that everyone else has the same experience.

Pot, meet kettle. Except that, of course, you haven't even had one experience, and you also judge people based on that one experience that you haven't had.

quote: I'm sure it went down just the way you described it. So that must mean that most professors out there are out to recruit immigrants so they can screw them over.

I'm sure that you're going to dismiss anything I say that doesn't adhere to your bullshit political ideology, but believe it or not, some managers exploit their employees, and unions are supposed to help level the playing field -- to give employees some recourse. But your head is so far up your own ass that you refuse to acknowledge this, instead sticking to the age-old alternative to unions: "If you don't like your job, then quit and enjoy unemployment! Oh yeah, and for some inexplicable reason, I also hate you!"

One RA was fired for failing to have a demo ready on time, except that she did have a demo ready on time -- I was there when she presented the damned thing, in front of her boss no less. Yet she was fired without cause, and had to drop out for two quarters until she could find another job, and went into heavy debt in the meantime (it takes a long time to process student loans, and she still had food/rent bills to pay). Another RA was fired for refusing to do work during finals week, as was his right (it's written into our contracts that we don't have to work during finals week), but it's also written into our contracts that our advisor can terminate our contract at any time for any reason whatsoever. He had to go back to Bangladesh for six months until he could acquire a new student visa.

Wrap around my ass.

	19-07-2004 09:05									#93
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Pot, meet kettle. Except that, of course, you haven't even had one experience, and you also judge people based on that one experience that you haven't had.

That's nice. All I've heard in this thread from the supporters of the union are bad experiences that happened to SOMEONE ELSE. Including that long paragraph you just wrote about OTHER PEOPLE. So, where is that kettle again?

quote: I'm sure that you're going to dismiss anything I say that doesn't adhere to your bullshit political ideology, but believe it or not, some managers exploit their employees, and unions are supposed to help level the playing field -- to give employees some recourse. But your head is so far up your own ass that you refuse to acknowledge this, instead sticking to the age-old alternative to unions: "If you don't like your job, then quit and enjoy unemployment! Oh yeah, and for some inexplicable reason, I also hate you!" Wrap around my ass.

In an idealistic world unions work great. But now they suck. I'm sure they did a great service to all the grocery clerks who were out of work for 3 months while the debts piled up. Great example of union leadership screwing over its own people. Those that couldn't afford it HAD to find other jobs. Way to go.

You know life isn't fair. Sometimes it's outright cruel. We all get screwed over every now and then. Why don't you guys go visit Haiti or some other slum and then come back and tell me how hard you have it.

	19-07-2004 09:08									#94
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By the way, you wanna talk about being a slave? With a union you're just trading one pimp for another. Personally I'd rather decide my own fate.

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	19-07-2004 09:11									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker That's nice. All I've heard in this thread from the supporters of the union are bad experiences that happened to SOMEONE ELSE. Including that long paragraph you just wrote about OTHER PEOPLE. So, where is that kettle again?

As I told Urban Ranger, I had a relatively easy time of it -- I'm an American citizen, so my advisor couldn't lord it over me with the ability to cancel my student visa. Yet inexplicably, I'm being labelled a "primadonna" by the likes of you despite my saying that I was content with my work. However, I did see the flaws in the system, in the examples I gave above that I fully expect you to dismiss. So wrap around my ass. And you can shove your goddamned "primadonna" bullshit where the sun don't shine.

quote: In an idealistic world unions work great.

Similarly, in an idealistic world, even your bullshit ideology would be great. Imagine that.

quote: Why don't you guys go visit Haiti or some other slum and then come back and tell me how hard you have it.

Are you that stupid? I never said I had it hard. Piss off.

	19-07-2004 09:14									#96
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The point remains Ted why, exactly, shouldn't we be free to make the decision about whether we ought to unionize ourselves instead of your paternalistic state dictating it for us?

	19-07-2004 09:18									#97
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You have to be workers to have a union.

	19-07-2004 09:22									#98
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Similarly, in an idealistic world, even your bullshit ideology would be great. Imagine that.

My bullshit idealology is great because I am correct 100% of the time.

quote: Are you that stupid? I never said I had it hard. Piss off.

So neither you or Ramo or anyone else had it hard in this thread. So why form a union again?

	19-07-2004 09:23									#99
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You have to be workers to have a union.

Kinda sums it up really.

	19-07-2004 09:28									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Lab work, to get their PhD.

Actually, I TA Junior-level electromagnetism, something which has nothing to do with getting my PhD

	19-07-2004 09:30									#101
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quote: You have to be workers to have a union.

I'm curious how someone who thought the references to "RA" in this thread meant "residence assistant" has any clue whatsoever what RA's actually do.

	19-07-2004 09:30									#102
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You have to be workers to have a union.

So if I'm not working then why am I being taxed as though my stipend was earned income (and not a scholarship)? And why do I have to TA when this has nothing to do with writing a dissertation?

	19-07-2004 09:34									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Assistantships are a REWARD, they are a rare opportunity that students compete for

No they aren't. They're us doing the scutwork for courses that professors don't want to. We're grading machines.

	19-07-2004 09:36									#104
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You might want to tell science departments the world over that RAships and TAships are rare opportunities, because every grad student's got one....

	19-07-2004 09:37									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Studying?

So it's studying to teach other people stuff I already know?

Brilliant.

	19-07-2004 09:39									#106
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse You might want to tell science departments the world over that RAships and TAships are rare opportunities, because every grad student's got one....

Actually, already addressed. Just one more bit of evidence that Ted hasn't the faintest idea what he's talking about, but is rather just blowing a lot of hot air.

	19-07-2004 09:39									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker No, but the primary purpose of graduate research is working towards one's graduate degree (even if the research isn't directly related to your thesis, that is why you're doing it).

No, the primary purpose is to get paid.

	19-07-2004 09:40									#108
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So you guys wouldn't mind if these positions were opened up to non students?

	19-07-2004 09:40									#109
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Boris, if you'll excuse me I've got about 300 other posts in this thread to respond to.

Plus you're breaking my streak.

	19-07-2004 09:41									#110
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They are open to nonstudents. That's what post-docs do

	19-07-2004 09:42									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker So you guys wouldn't mind if these positions were opened up to non students?

Find me a non-student with a bachelor's degree in physics willing to work 20 hours a week for 15k a year pre-taxes.

Average starting salary for a BSc in physics is 55k, by the way.

	19-07-2004 09:43									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker So you guys wouldn't mind if these positions were opened up to non students?

They don't want to hire nonstudents, because to get qualified people to do what TAs do, they'd have to pay a LOT more money and offer things like benefits.

Have you actually put any thought into this?

	19-07-2004 09:43									#113
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Cool. So we can just hire a bunch of postdocs to do all that crucial work that is so desparatley needed.

	19-07-2004 09:47									#114
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Yes you are. I paid to be tought by a professor, not you.

The professors don't mark stuff. I do.

	19-07-2004 09:47									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Cool. So we can just hire a bunch of postdocs to do all that crucial work that is so desparatley needed.

Sure. Postdocs get paid more than twice as much as we do, BTW.

	19-07-2004 09:48									#116
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[q]Cool. So we can just hire a bunch of postdocs to do all that crucial work that is so desparatley needed./q]

Sure, if you can find enough that'll accept the piss-poor wages grad students are paid.

	19-07-2004 09:48									#117
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Well which one is it guys?

If they are so hard to come by why the need of a union?

	19-07-2004 09:51									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I'm talking about starting from the bottom. You can't expect to have everything. The kids are greedy and want money. that's all it comes down to. You'd think its enough their rich parents are putting them through grad school.

My parents are rich?

My parents are putting me through school?

That's odd, because I was under the impression that my parents weren't giving me money or paying my bills. I guess I was wrong.

	19-07-2004 09:51									#119
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I've never said that they're hard to come by, that was your bald assertion.

As for the need:
"To bargain over wages, working conditions, health care, administrative practices, etc., etc. The same reasons any other group of workers would need a union for."

	19-07-2004 09:52									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Well which one is it guys? If they are so hard to come by why the need of a union?

Because students are willing to put up with a lot of **** since it's temporary. But it doesn't mean that me performing service in exchange for pay isn't work. And it doesn't mean that I shouldn't have the right to unionise my fellow TAs and RAs.