19-07-2004 01:32									#61
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Everyone should be able to unionize, its their labor, they can do with it what they will.

Everyone should be allowed to hire and fire at will, it's their money, they can do with it what they will.

Sadly, if one is not allowed than there's more damage in allowing the other than in forbidding it.

	19-07-2004 03:49									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo What the hell are you talking about?

I'm talking about starting from the bottom. You can't expect to have everything. The kids are greedy and want money. that's all it comes down to. You'd think its enough their rich parents are putting them through grad school.

All the generations before them had to do the same thing. Lab work for no pay. It's like an initiation.

	19-07-2004 03:58									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident You'd think its enough their rich parents are putting them through grad school. .

The reason the students have the TA jobs is because they aren't rich, they need the $$ to live. How clueless are you?

In fact, it seems a lot of people in here haven't a clue as to what they're talking about. Kuciwalker, I suggest you might actually wait until you've even gone to college before you weigh in on such matters, hmm?

	19-07-2004 04:12									#64
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And AGAIN, there are plenty of other jobs you can do. You guys keep making it sound like it's the absolute only job available on the face of the earth.

TA job is a special job that is a privilege to have. I agree with Dissident that there is alot of primadonna attitude going on here. Pay your damn dues like the rest of the student body and stop expecting to be treated like kings. That's the way the world works, start at the bottom and work your way up the way the rest of the world does.

	19-07-2004 04:46									#65
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My "rich parents" (my mom's so rich, that I have to help her out with paying her bills) aren't putting me through college or grad school or anything else. Work and loans are putting me through school. You might've had your parents prop you up, but I don't.

Generations of TA's and RA's have been paid. It's not a special privilege, it's the way the system works. And for damn good reason. Science would come to a grinding halt if there weren't any grad students for those in permanent positions to do all the work. The institution of a university would stop working without TA's to help teach classes.

And once again, you're not going to find anyone willing to volunteer 20 or 30 hours for "experience" in a field probably unrelated to what they want to study, unless they're wealthy enough to get by on their own. I guess Ted believes that teaching/research assistantships ought to be the exclusive province of the rich.

I'm not demanding anything special that the rest of the student body does not have. I'm not demanding to be treated like a "king" or any such bullshit (indeed, most of the working students at UT have the right to form a union). I just want to be treated like any other worker, and not have the state prohibit me from collectively bargaining. I don't see why I need your acceptance, as it ought to be the right of any person.

Last edited by Ramo on 19-07-2004 at 06:40

	19-07-2004 06:08									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And AGAIN, there are plenty of other jobs you can do.

Same goes for factory workers, too, right? I mean, they could always just go get a job elsewhere, can't they? So screw their right to unionize!

Please.

	19-07-2004 06:24									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident The kids are greedy and want money. that's all it comes down to. You'd think its enough their rich parents are putting them through grad school.

Why would I have gotten a job as an RA (or any job, for that matter) if my parents were paying my tuition/rent/food bills?

If you say that I'm greedy for wanting to earn enough money to pay my tuition, pay my rent, and eat, then I admit that I'm greedy. If being spartan means being homeless and starving, then I'll pass on being spartan, as would most people IMO.

	19-07-2004 06:38									#68
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quote: And AGAIN, there are plenty of other jobs you can do. You guys keep making it sound like it's the absolute only job available on the face of the earth.

For many graduate students it is valuable work experience. You aren't going to get hired if you don't have any teaching experience.

quote: TA job is a special job that is a privilege to have.

No. It's a job that exists because there is an economic need for it. TAs conduct tutorials and fill in for sick professors, meet with students and mark the vast majority of student work. Graduate Instructors teach courses which students want to take and for which there are no available faculty. Depending on the university, TAs may do an extremely high proportion of the actual teaching (as York University here discovered when the TAs walked out and their campus shut down).

If the tenured Professors and other university staff can unionize, I don't see why we can't.

	19-07-2004 06:41									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker TA job is a special job that is a privilege to have.

How, in your mind, is being a TA/RA so much different from having any other job? Nobody in their right mind would claim that flipping burgers is a privilege, or that being an engineer is a privilege, or that being a carpenter is a privilege, and yet here you are claiming that being a TA/RA is a privilege. Why?

	19-07-2004 06:41									#70
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Why would I have gotten a job as an RA (or any job, for that matter) if my parents were paying my tuition/rent/food bills? If you say that I'm greedy for wanting to earn enough money to pay my tuition, pay my rent, and eat, then I admit that I'm greedy. If being spartan means being homeless and starving, then I'll pass on being spartan, as would most people IMO.

It seems I am mistaken. I thought we were talking about something else. Aren't these jobs related to the field you are studying?

	19-07-2004 06:45									#71
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I'll remember that being a TA is a privilege in a couple of weeks when I sit down to read what 30 illiterates have to say about Aristotle.

I can't wait for September when I go back to being a GI.

	19-07-2004 06:51									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Aren't these jobs related to the field you are studying?

Yeah, that's pretty much a necessity for being hired -- I worked as an RA in a computer science lab because I was qualified to work as an RA in a computer science lab, but I wasn't qualified to work in, say, a chemical engineering lab.

I got job experience from being an RA (more than most people, since I actually landed one of the few non-academic research jobs to be had), but I also got job experience from working as a database programmer as an undergrad, and nobody has ever claimed that it was a privilege for me to work as a database programmer.

For some reason, I keep wanting to put a 'd' in privilege.

	19-07-2004 06:53									#73
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quote: It seems I am mistaken. I thought we were talking about something else. Aren't these jobs related to the field you are studying?

Pretty much, but only vaguely. For instance, I'm working for an experimentalist in fusion, while I want to study biophysics.

	19-07-2004 07:39									#74
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger How, in your mind, is being a TA/RA so much different from having any other job? Nobody in their right mind would claim that flipping burgers is a privilege, or that being an engineer is a privilege, or that being a carpenter is a privilege, and yet here you are claiming that being a TA/RA is a privilege. Why?

Because it is directly related to your field. It is the equivalent of having an internship on your resume.

Works a hell of alot better than working at Mickey Dees....

Noticed that these positions are AWARDED.

	19-07-2004 07:50									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Because it is directly related to your field. It is the equivalent of having an internship on your resume. Works a hell of alot better than working at Mickey Dees....

So if a job is related to my field then it's a privilege, and if it isn't related to my field then it's a "real" job? My current job requires a MS in CS -- does that mean it's a privilege? My brother's job requires a BS in MatSE -- does that mean it's a privilege? The database programming job I had as an undergrad required a high school diploma -- does that mean it was a privilege?

quote: Noticed that these positions are AWARDED.

What positions are you talking about? I got my position the same way I got any other job I've ever had -- I interviewed with my boss, and he hired me. Other people interviewed with him and didn't get hired. Where are you getting your information from?

	19-07-2004 07:53									#76
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Where are you getting your information from?

Judging by his posts, I'd say his posterior.

	19-07-2004 08:00									#77
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger So if a job is related to my field then it's a privilege, and if it isn't related to my field then it's a "real" job? My current job requires a MS in CS -- does that mean it's a privilege? My brother's job requires a BS in MatSE -- does that mean it's a privilege? The database programming job I had as an undergrad required a high school diploma -- does that mean it was a privilege?

The bottom line is that you guys are on easy street, making more money than your classmates, getting experience that most of your classmates do not, and doing easy work that is directly related to your field of interest.

"I hear they don't even let us have tea breaks! The horror!!!!"

Yet still complaining about it.

As I said, you are more than welcome to apply at McDonald's.

Sissy whiners!

	19-07-2004 08:05									#78
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I'll ask again: where are you getting your information from?

You have no idea what work I did, you have no idea how I earned my position, and yet you somehow consider yourself to be an expert on the job that I held for 18 months. How many years were you an RA? How many RA's have you known in real life? Where are you getting your information from?

Cut the bullshit already.

	19-07-2004 08:09									#79
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Ted, now you're just being an ass about something that you're clueless on. It's embarrassing, so why not cut it out?

	19-07-2004 08:28									#80
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Since when are RA's grad students? Most of the ones I know aren't.

	19-07-2004 08:29									#81
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Nah not really.

My entire family has done it, along with many of my closest friends.

So cut the BS guys, count your blessings and stop complaining or find another damn job. There is nothing special about you primadonnas.

	19-07-2004 08:32									#82
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Since when are RA's grad students? Most of the ones I know aren't.

Only grad students and postdocs held research assistantships at my university. There were a few undergrads who would use a professor's lab facilities for an honors thesis, but they weren't paid for their efforts.

	19-07-2004 08:39									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker My entire family has done it, along with many of my closest friends.

Then why are you so clueless about what RA's do and how they get their positions? My bullshit meter is going haywire after your "these positions are AWARDED" remark.

quote: So cut the BS guys, count your blessings and stop complaining or find another damn job. There is nothing special about you primadonnas.

I'll be sure to relay your heartfelt asshollery to the RA's I knew who lost their tuition waivers and/or their student visas because of a professor's whims. They should count themselves lucky that some clueless schmuck on the internet doesn't give a damn about them. Or something.

	19-07-2004 08:39									#84
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Perhaps DD thought you meant "Residence Assistant."

	19-07-2004 08:42									#85
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In my school, there are some undergrad RA's (I'm one), but our bosses expect much less out of us then they do from grad students.

	19-07-2004 08:46									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Perhaps DD thought you meant "Residence Assistant."

	19-07-2004 08:48									#87
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Then why are you so clueless about what RA's do and how they get their positions? My bullshit meter is going haywire after your "these positions are AWARDED" remark.

Nah you have one experience and want to say that everyone else has the same experience.

quote: I'll be sure to relay your heartfelt asshollery to the RA's I knew who lost their tuition waivers and/or their student visas because of a professor's whims. They should count themselves lucky that some clueless schmuck on the internet doesn't give a damn about them. Or something.

I'm sure it went down just the way you described it. So that must mean that most professors out there are out to recruit immigrants so they can screw them over.

	19-07-2004 08:48									#88
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc

I was only kidding, too...

	19-07-2004 08:48									#89
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc

Ah yeah, I've made that mistake before.

	19-07-2004 08:51									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Nah you have one experience and want to say that everyone else has the same experience.

Yet you've not had any experience with it and you still seem fit to sit and pontificate to people who have gone through it or are currently going through it what it's all about.

Holy hell, you're being a complete fool.