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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Oh it's broken?
  
Let me save you all some trouble. I never said that I would punish dissent. I said I would punish those who obstucted the govt as it commandeered the means of production. There is a difference between dissent and obstruction. |
That's not what I was searching for. I was searching for the posts you made about how capitalists were lazy and evil exploiters who did nothing but get rich off the work of others. Vel was the one who was on about dissent.
I actually searched through 300 pages of OT archive. I found several of our commie/capitalist threads, but I'm tired of it now and I still hadn't gone back far enough to find the original thread where you, Vel and I had our first big debate. That's where your hatred of the rich was crystal clear. Now that I know I can start at page 300 and go back, I can find it more easily if I want to bother this afternoon.
For now, I'll give you a post from a much more recent thread (around page 100 of the archive):
quote:
This country was built on hard work and the land was stolen. Capitalists didn't do any of it. The sat on their fat asses. - 21-10-2003 23:31 |
That's mild compared to the original thread, if my memory doesn't deceive me. Your basic starting premise was that capitalists (business owners, etc) were lazy, did no REAL work, and just got fat off of the labor of others. Hence my mocking post several pages ago, to which you got all defensive.
I really don't see why you're pretending you aren't "classist" - you're a communist! Communism is about class struggle! For a commie, being classist is a good thing, isn't it?? 
-Arrian
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Dauphin
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Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
time: 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
You won't pay income taxes, you will pay payroll taxes.
If you die and leave no estate-there is no tax, ergho, and this should be obvious even to you, its not a "death tax". |
I think that a semantic argument. If you don't earn money you don't pay income tax, if you don't sell anything you don't owe sales tax, if you don't make a capital gain you don't pay capital gains tax. If you don't die you don't get your estate taxed. Obviously you'll die eventually and leave things to your family and friends, but if you gift most of it several years before death you don't pay estate tax. Sure you may owe gift taxes, but that is not a death estate tax and is calculated in a different manner. For one, threshold limits and exemptions are different.
Of course, as its purely semantic (imho) I don't really care if people call it a death tax, or estate tax, or *insert the blank* tax, it just reveals their view of the tax. 
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
why is it so hard for you to understand some basic truths?
The dead are not being taxed-their estate is being taxed, since it is a transfer of wealth, and transfer of wealth are taxed. Insofar as estates are taxed, only by far the biggest estates are taxed-no one who ever gets money from a estate that actually had to pay the estate tax will go hungry, specially if they are the sole recipients. This is doen based on a policy decision that would rpefer to avoid the mass accumulation of extreme wealth in a few small hands without simply prohibiting the passing on of money.
So stop misconstruing the tax. Its an ESTATE tax, not a tax on dying. If you die with $2000 in the bank, not a penny of that will be taxed. So it most obviously is NOt a tax on dying. Stop lying. |
 Since you quoted me, I'll respond even though I doubt you read what you quoted. I didn't call it a "death tax" or a "estate tax ' in that quote and frankly I don't care what you call it. Nomenclature is irrelevent; its the purpose and effect that matter.
With all tax, I accept that I have to pay my "fair share" ( whatever the heck that means". I always thought flat taxes where everyone paid the same proportion were fair but I can accept that the higher income earners should shoulder a bit more of the burden . . . so a bit of grauation in the rates is ok by me but when they start taking close to 50% of every additional dollar thats too much-- Why is it too much for me?? Thats my personal; threshold where it becomes not worth the work and effort to work more . I just find higher rates offensive to the ideas that effort get rerwarded.
As I said before, I don't care that I am dead when a tax on wealth accumulation (whatever you call it) is applied. Currently my wealth ( such as it is) would be used to support my wife and child. If I died 10 minutes from now, their need for that support would be undiminished. Insurance helps but they also have to cope with the loss of my incomewhich they had hoped to have for 20 more years. Quite frankly a high tax would put them in a hard way. And I assume all along we have been talking a high tax since most of the proponent's arguments and justifications make no sense if we are talking just a little 1% tax or something. Note that rates along ther lines of 0.4% were applied in many Canadian jurisdictions for years as "probate fees" by the courts
So I'm dead and I shouldn't care what you do to my estate?? What planet are you guys on? I work hard for my family and you tell me that its ok to take my stuff since my wife and child haven't earned it themselves. . .. that this is fine since the person that earned the wealth is dead? .. . BULLCRAP!!!
I also just don't think these types of taxes work that well in the real world . The bottom line on these taxes is the truly rich will move the bulk of their wealth to another jurisdiction, have corporations own their homes that remain in the taxing jurisdiction, and place some value in higly liquid and untraceable forms like gems and place those in other jurisdictions. Thats not even going into structures like trusts where millions can be held but not form part of any individual's personal wealth. I'm not a tax expert but I can think of many many ways to avoid a tax on wealth
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:33
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You know, I'd rather have highly progressive income taxes on inviduals than complicated tax codes for corporations. I'd rather corporations be taxed (if at all) in a simple manner. I think individual income taxes should be high for the top 1% bracket. I don't have any exact rates because it would depend on what kind of budget we have. Social Security taxable income should not be taxed at like $87,000 or whatever it is. That's insanely regressive.
Here's what I would like to see taxed... all in a progressive manner:
capital gains
estate inheritances
income, but much more simplicity than now
corporate bonuses
I don't like the sales tax, but I think we should use it to tax things like alcohol and drugs (After legalized of coursE) in order to fund rehab and addiction programs.
I think federal taxes should help the education system by supplementing the incomes of teachers in problem districts in order to attract better teachers. It's stupid to punish school districts that are bad. How does that help improve things? That's why the whole concept of "NO CHILD left behind" is dumb.
Basically, I want to see wealth and high income taxed. We should have a tax policy that encourages social mobility for lower classes, creating a larger middle class and consumer base. Consequently, the economy will boom because 75% of our economy is consumer driven. If our consumer base is healthy and successful, businesses will benefit. We should aim to have wealth being created more for the working and middle classes so that the money can "trickle up" to businesses via consumer spending.
It should be a delicate balance so that success is not discourage by higher taxes on higher incomes. But even if the top 1% are taxed at 90%, there will still be incentive to work to gain that income level. Making $20 million and getting taxed 90% is still a hell of a lot better than making $20,000. I don't think people will want to stay poor just to avoid paying taxes.
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30-07-2004 21:17
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