10-08-2004 03:24									#151
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I'd switch OA to a probe team and SC2 to a 2-1-2 (or we could use the 10 minerals at OA to kickstart another Network Node or Command Center instead of a unit? - although we do need probe teams commissioned to staff that trannie)

	10-08-2004 05:06									#152
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Okay, probe team at OA and 2-1-2 at SC2 then.

Next turn, we:
*Call up Zak again and try to buy Lal's commlink
*Let SCC Invincible repair
*Continue exploring/pod popping with rovers
*Hope that the Morganites or Data Angels have bought our commlink from Yang

Do we need to start thinking about what we will say to either team if they contact us next turn? I wonder if this deal would work:

1. Have Morganites give us IA in exchange for a promised trade of gene splicing.
2. Contact Zakharov, trade IA for gene splicing (would he be willing to do it? I would think so. We could test it in the simulator, perhaps.)
3. Contact Morgan again, deliver gene splicing as promised.

Morganites would gain gene splicing
Zak would gain IA
We would gain both!

If the Morganites wouldn't be up for that (such a deal would require them to really trust that we wouldn't take IA and run) we could throw in something else to sweeten the deal, like doc:mobility. C'mon, if you were the Morganites, you'd think trading IA for gene splicing+doc:mob would be a pretty sweet deal, would you not?

	10-08-2004 05:39									#153
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I see that our 48 hour limit expires in about 1 hour.

Was Maniac going to finish and post the turn? (I can't - with my desktop - as I get the reload message even when I use Maniac's midturn save)

I'll assemble my laptop and sign on there, and use my own midgame sav (where I popped a mineral but no cloned rover, so no disbanding necessary with that one)

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 10-08-2004 at 05:58

	10-08-2004 06:18									#154
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Because of the ruling and the changes needed (wrt which save to use, etc.) you have a 24 hour extension if you need it. Obviously it's better not to sue it, as it would show others that something has happened, but if you need it, it's there.

	10-08-2004 06:35									#155
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Made it with 10 minutes to spare ( )

Maniac's prolly sound asleep right now !!

I have a clean turn via my laptop where I replicated everything done on my desktop except that I didn't sell Yang's commlink to Zak (nor did I change to planned in the middle of the turn), so I just completed that one as it's the same as Maniac's but without the cloned rover

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 10-08-2004 at 06:55

	10-08-2004 06:54									#156
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So here are the complete moves taken during the 2125 turn:

• We now have Planetary Networks and are embarked upon Nonlinear Mathematics, with 5 lab points carried over (whatever that means - I'm not sure if we got 1 from getting the tech - wasn't that what Kody said earlier?)
  
• Olympus Academy founded - probe team put into production there
  
• Moved SCC Invincible east as suggested (only 3 turns) as Zeiter is right, we do know there's a Hive base there, so why waste moves confirming the obvious (plus, it avoids the automatic Yang commlink call to ask why our troops are frightening his chickens ... oh, wrong game!!)
  
• Rolling Thunder moved 1 tile north, and saw that there's a Unity pod just to its east. Popped the pod (a minerals special) and found Zak sitting offshore in a transport with a 1-1-1 disciplined scout .
  
• Zak wanted Yang's commlink number (refused it), then wanted Doc Flex, but wouldn't trade Gene Splicing for it. Woudn't Treaty, nor trade, so we mutually hung up.
  
• Moved R-112 and Chiron Knights in tandem one tile southwest then 1 west, prepping for popping that pod to their northwest
  
• Changed the worker at SC2 to work the crater tile for a 1-2-1 benefit.
  
• Changed production in SC2 to a 2-1-2 Recon Rover (name needed?) to get the benefit of the Command Center's +2 morale plus its own prototyping +1 morale)
  
• I left the sliders at 40/10/50 (6 income, breakthru in 12, at 11 labpoints per turn) - versus - 60/0/40 (9 income, breakthru in 17 at 8 labpoints per turn) It just didn't seem to make sense to take an almost 50% hit on research for a measly 3 credits

Attachment: acdg3-sparta, 2125 presend.zip
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Last edited by Googlie on 10-08-2004 at 07:44

	10-08-2004 06:57									#157
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Good work. I hope our turns will be a bit faster after this one, otherwise we'll never get above average. (Not that I can complain since I don't play )

	10-08-2004 07:02									#158
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Meeting with Zak:

Attachment: contact with zak.jpg
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	10-08-2004 07:18									#159
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Some thoughts on R-112, Chiron Knights and SCC Invinvible

The 2 Rovers

Do we try to pop that pod next turn (ie with one of the 2 rovers' second movement points) relying on its mate to bail it out of any trouble (a mindworm won't appear in either of the 2 adjacent forest squares, but perhaps in either of the two fungus squares adjacent to that pod)

We're OK if it's a single mindworm event, but screwed if it's a multiple one (as the rover can only take out 1 of them with its second movement point)

I'd suggest that we move the weaker rover (R-112 I believe) north and northeast into the fungus to try and draw out a mindworm there that can trhen be attacked by Chiron Knights. That would end the turn with both rovers on the tile just southeast of the pod, with all mp's left for opening it next turn and rdealing with any threat.

And if they are damaged, there's that monolith just 3 tiles away to recuperate and repair at.

Naval Affairs

I'd be inclined to still move SCC Invincible next turn its 3 movement points east - at least we'll see if there is a landbridge hidden by that black seafog that's obscuring the view of the crew. After that it can recuperate and we can decide whether to move south in search of intelligent life, or proceed up our eastern coast towards where we think the University is.

Attachment: 2125-sw.jpg
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	10-08-2004 07:35									#160
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And here's our bases and production status for 2125:

Attachment: 2125-bases.jpg
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	10-08-2004 08:47									#161
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Clipping together all of the important info into one or two screenies like that is great. Really saves on the load time.

You think we should wait one more turn to pop that southern pod? I think if a mind worm appeared, our rover could take it. They are both high morale. And the chances of it being a multiple event are pretty slim. We aren't at perihelion, are we? If we aren't then we don't have much to worry about.

I think this could be a good base site for the eastern coast. It's only 4 moves away from OA, and it has some good workable tiles in its radius (including that min special.)

Attachment: eastern base.jpg
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	10-08-2004 20:31									#162
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I like the idea of a base there. After SC1 has coompleted its former I suggest it farms that central tile at 60:18 (all 3 bases can use it) then build a road from OA to prep the new base site

(actually, if it lingered there for 4 moves and built a sensor array also at that central tile, it would add protection to all 3 bases within its 2-tile radius, and the former still could complete the road to the coast before OA's colony pod was ready)

Meanwhile, what do we do with Rolling Thunder? Wait to see what Zak does next, then react? Or just continue exploring our coastline north regardless?)

And we can rush SC3's colony pod next turn and pull Shinsengumi off garrison duty and move them down the Crater Lakes and then up the Rio Grande to bolster our Northeastern Expeditionary Force

	10-08-2004 21:31									#163
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Do you think that Zak might try to disembark that scout on our continent? I wouldn't think so, at least I hope not. Then we're going to either have to:
1. Demand a withdrawl (and get into vendetta probably)
2. Destroy it (and get into vendetta)
3. ZOC block it so that it can't get to our bases, and just wait and see if Zak withdraws it voluntarily. The bad thing is that that ties up a rover that we could be using for police duty/exploration.

So, we could wait a turn and see if Zak sails away (although that wouldn't necessarily guarantee anything, as Zak could just be sailing a little south in order to disembark closer to our bases.)

Or, we could just move our rover to the north and continue exploring, and hope that Zak doesn't disembark. I guess that's perhaps what we could do. Then, in a few turns, the Shinsengumi brigade will be coming up that way to intercept the scout if it tries any funny business up there by OA.

It's a pity that we couldn't get a treaty out of him. Maybe we can try again soon.

quote: (actually, if it lingered there for 4 moves and built a sensor array also at that central tile, it would add protection to all 3 bases within its 2-tile radius, and the former still could complete the road to the coast before OA's colony pod was ready)

Sounds good. Let's see...8 turns for the farm and sensor array, 1 turn to move, 2 turns to road between OA and SC1, 1 turn to move, 2 turns to road, 1 to move, 1 to road, 1 to move, 1 to road.

I got 18 turns in all. That should work.

Rushing SC3's CP sounds good. Maybe we should just leave our energy allocations with an emphasis on econ production for a few turns. At this stage, it might be more important to get things rushed and hurried (as well as getting ECs for commlinks and switching to planned) than to get fast research. And the more quickly we get new bases founded, the more labs we'll get anyway.

BTW, I noticed that our boundaries with the Hive have been slightly redrawn. Yang must have built another base somewhat close to our territory. Actually, now that I look closely at it, it doesn't make any sense at all! It looks like Yang would have had to plant a base on land south of where our foil is right now in order to get the boundaries to behave that way. But as far as I can tell, that seems to be ocean. And our boundaries seem to have extended abnormally far towards Yang's territory. Because our territories now meet each other. Yet, we didn't plant any new bases to the south. Can you guys figure it out?

	10-08-2004 23:14									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Maniac's prolly sound asleep right now !!

Nah. It was 3.30, and I had just gotten out of bed, preparing for work starting at 5 o'clock.

quote: Originally posted by Zeiter BTW, starting this thursday, I'm going to be posting a lot less. That may be a good thing or a bad thing.

Oh that's a pity. Is it a temporary or permanent thing?

quote: BTW, I noticed that our boundaries with the Hive have been slightly redrawn. Yang must have built another base somewhat close to our territory. Actually, now that I look closely at it, it doesn't make any sense at all! It looks like Yang would have had to plant a base on land south of where our foil is right now in order to get the boundaries to behave that way. But as far as I can tell, that seems to be ocean. And our boundaries seem to have extended abnormally far towards Yang's territory. Because our territories now meet each other. Yet, we didn't plant any new bases to the south. Can you guys figure it out?

Yeah I've been wondering about that as well.

***

Edit: I've got a small question, as the discussion about production orders got me somewhat confused: Are we planning to send a transport with one or two probe teams to Yang?

	10-08-2004 23:27									#165
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quote: Edit: I've got a small question, as the discussion about production orders got me somewhat confused: Are we planning to send a transport with one or two probe teams to Yang?

As of now, we're just sending one probe team, but we could increase that to two by switching SC2 production to a probe team. I don't believe we'd lose any minerals for retooling. Although do we need two probe teams just now? Why don't we just send one probe team over there right now to infiltrate the datalinks. Then we can build another after that one is finished and send two on the second run. If we send two probe teams on this first run, and we steal tech, we're going to get into a war with Yang, and I don't know if we want that just yet. Although we could try framing the Data Angels...

quote: Oh that's a pity. Is it a temporary or permanent thing?

Semi-permanent, I'm afraid. This thursday I start work at a temporary job that runs for a few weeks until school starts, and then I've got school for the rest of the year. I still might be able to pop in briefly once a day, and then on the weekends catch up a bit, but I definitely won't be as active as I am now.

	10-08-2004 23:30									#166
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Oh no! Who is going to write articles for The Phalanx then?

That's most unfortunate. The paper'll have to make do without your contribution then, I suppose.

	11-08-2004 00:02									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter BTW, I noticed that our boundaries with the Hive have been slightly redrawn. ............................. And our boundaries seem to have extended abnormally far towards Yang's territory. Because our territories now meet each other. Yet, we didn't plant any new bases to the south. Can you guys figure it out?

here's the screenies to illustrate - note that in 2125 our borders now meet (and that the Rio Rojo is now completely in our territory) - the only things that changed year over year were that SC2 went to 2 pop, and we founded OA

	11-08-2004 01:00									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter I think this could be a good base site for the eastern coast. It's only 4 moves away from OA, and it has some good workable tiles in its radius (including that min special.)

Or how about this one - After completing its former have SC1 produce a colony pod while the former works a road to the coast. This site would use the ocean nut square, and would have 2 pods tp pop in its radius (maybe a land monolith and a sea minerals?)

And if a mine were built on the rocky tile between (right where it says "road"), then it could be used by either this base or SC1 as the circumstances warrant

(Or maybe even both - a base from an SC1 CP where I suggest and another from OA where Zeiter suggests - that too would have a popping pod within its radius)

That (2 bases) would also be good beurocracy-wise, as right now we're planning most of our bases west of our HQ, whereas 2 easterly bases would bring the HQ more into the center of our expansion

	11-08-2004 01:58									#169
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Oooh, another good base site! Good idea. Yeah, let's build on that site first using a CP from SC1. That nutrient bonus will really help our growth, especially if we can ever get a sea former out there and get a kelp farm on it.

Although, with the roads, I wonder if this road network would be more efficient:

Attachment: spartan road network.jpg
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	11-08-2004 02:10									#170
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Hmm - it has the advantages of avoiding the rocky square (which slows it down) plus it puts a road thru the monolith (which I like, for upgrading units)

Negative, though, is that at some point we'll want to mine and road that central tile (which all 3 bases can use - SC1, OA and NB)

My sense is that your 4 rainy tiles' worth of roads would prolly cost (timewise) the same as my 2 rainy/1 rocky set-up - and if we are using it in the future to move troops, then we just stage them - SC1's unit to OA and OA's unit to NB or EB2

	11-08-2004 05:16									#171
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I wonder, would it theoretically be possible to bribe both Yang andZak to attack someone (and of course, whoever Zak attacks, Lal will attack). At this stage in the game, such a joint attack from the AI would make any team tremble with fear.

	11-08-2004 05:25									#172
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I'm sure it would, if the conditions were right (ie, all had the relevant commlink, and all had land access, or Doc Flex)

I dunno how eager we are to give up Flex at this time, though. Maybe after we have a headstart on the MCC (after Doc Ini, which needs Ind Auto as a prereq.

As an aside, how about starting an SP at one base then discontinuing it the next year. Thgis will give the "go ahead" to the AI to start building (they wait until either a human player has started one, or until all human players have the tech to build one, plus there's a # TURNS linked to DIFF that may have prohibited the AI from starting one yet)

We certainly aren't going to be able to go for more than 1 or 2, and to get, say, the PK's building the HGP and the Uni building the VW is to our advantage if it denies those SP's to our competitors

So maybe in a base that has just started a build (so that we don't lose minerals when we change back) we could sow this bit of disinformation?

	11-08-2004 05:40									#173
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That's brilliant! That would be so great, if we could deny Morgan the HGP, or Deidre the WP. I had no idea that the AI behaved like that. So they won't start an SP until certain conditions have been met? That's good to know.

Also, would the other human factions get a pop up window saying "Spartans have started on secret project yadda yadda yadda..."? Because that could also be used to increase our intimidation factor, if we make it seem like we think we are strong enough to start on an SP already.

	11-08-2004 05:56									#174
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sounds like a great plan. Start a SP!

I would think they get a popup- but I'm not sure about pbem's. I never got that far in one

I noticed the AI behaved that way, but I wasn't sure if that was the case with transcend level (I usually play Thinker level)

	11-08-2004 06:33									#175
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Prima says (and it's talking about single-player games versus the computer):

quote: Secret Projects At Talent and below, the other factions can't start work on a Secret Project until you, the player, have its prerequisite tech, even if they have the tech in question.

I seem to remember in the old OWO forums (man, how I wish I'd save all those snippets to disc - or even hard copy) one of the Firaxis programmers said that they'd maintained that for all diff levels in PBEMs, and adding an algorithm somewhat similar to the random events generator so that the AI eventually do get the opportunity to build SP's (I can't remember the actual formula he quoted - I guess it'd be possible to replicate it thru a series of scenario tests - (if indeed he did quote an actual formula or just gave the variables) but I remember # TURNS and DIFF being two of the variables

And even if they don't get a pop-up, I'm sure that I have a counterpart in the other 3 factions (I check the F5 screen every turn to see what's happening in the SP world)

	11-08-2004 07:12									#176
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PP is back after teaching infidels about electrons and protons...(1) like idea about ONE Probe Team to get Yang Datalinks (2) need to keep Rolling Thunder shadowing Zak, since he WILL land a unit, that's his modis operandi (sp?) (3) i'm all for the new base locations, BUT, we STILL need to establish a southern perimeter against Yang. my game experience w/AI Yang is that he strings bases ala-ICS and especially Sea colonies. the last thing we need is Yang expanding nth via the sea and 'surrounding' home island (btw, which i have suggested doing to him) (4) not sure about starting SP. IMHO, WP/PD/MCC are all vital early/mid game, but do we have the resources to commit against Morgan/etal completion? a ruse would be nice, and will go with Junta decision

	11-08-2004 08:17									#177
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quote: Originally posted by Primus Pilus BUT, we STILL need to establish a southern perimeter against Yang.

I agree. Even if we establish a base between the mineral and nut tile at the edge of our current borders, it'd only push the line a little further south (and we'd need to string another base(s) towards the isthmus to finally get the border between our landmasses)

Thus:

	11-08-2004 08:56									#178
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I agree, Primus Pilot, we do need to eventually think about Hive encroachment to the south. If we can just get one base established down there, we can use it to do nothing but pump out garrisons and CPs for future bases. Here's a possible encroachment plan. I agree with Googlie's base site proposal there by the mineral bonus. Here are a few more base proposals. The black arrows indicates the order that we build each base, and the turquoise circles show good, productive squares that each base could harvest.

Attachment: hive encroachment policy.jpg
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	11-08-2004 08:57									#179
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looks good to me Googlie (no surprise). i ask that the Junta members pursue this tactical adv asap...topic, i've always supported coastal bases first as exploration, pickets, sea sq bonus, and expansion. i had already given my vote to crater NW, and will now encorage the NE minearl nut. SEA is POWER...Lead Harpoon

	11-08-2004 09:26									#180
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ok, for clarifcation, i pushed that a CP go to the sth mineral nut when we found it several turns ago. what is our strategy, and better our tactics?