10-08-2004 10:06									#91
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Cool.

Now you're up to 5 year old Windows games.

Why do things the hard way?

Or you could run setup.exe twice and be up and running.

	10-08-2004 10:08									#92
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quote: Actually, I never did that. I just freed up the stupid FAT32 space taken up by Windows and converted it to Linux reiserfs. Now that I have SMAC for Linux, I no longer have to dual boot anymore.

fat32 is the only thing that both windows and linux can access safely. which is why i use it for all of my document storage, since i do dual boot.

and you still haven't answered my distro question.

	10-08-2004 10:08									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Cool. Now you're up to 5 year old Windows games. Why do things the hard way? Or you could run setup.exe twice and be up and running.

Good God, I once made the mistake of trying to install Quake 3 for Linux. It never did work, after about 3 hours of f*cking around.

I swear to God, any sane non-programming/irc geek person who uses Linux for a day would come crawling back to Windows rather quickly.

Lots of people try Linux, very few dual boot it, and a pathetically small amount of people have it as their only OS. That should tell people something.

	10-08-2004 10:29									#94
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quote: for a day would come crawling back to Windows rather quickly.

That is your assumption.

quote: Lots of people try Linux, very few dual boot it, and a pathetically small amount of people have it as their only OS. That should tell people something.

Assumption, again!

quote: and you still haven't answered my distro question.

Sorry. It was?

quote: fat32 is the only thing that both windows and linux can access safely

You can replace io.sys with an "upgraded" one that allows you to access reiserfs filesystems, IIRC. There are also a lot of applications allowing to use reiserfs from Windows. FAT32 is horrible....

quote: Now you're up to 5 year old Windows games

So? It is a most glorious game. American Conquest from CDV, actually, also runs.

quote: ood God, I once made the mistake of trying to install Quake 3 for Linux. It never did work, after about 3 hours of f*cking around.

What you tried to install it via rpm?

Quake 3 took 2 mins to uncompress, 3 mins to install. Yes. WineX games take a minimal amount of configuration. For optimality, you can link it against winelib.

	10-08-2004 10:30									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf That is your assumption.

It is not an assumption when it's a generally accepted truth.

	10-08-2004 10:32									#96
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quote: So? It is a most glorious game. American Conquest from CDV, actually, also runs.

It illustrates how Linux itself is 5 years behind when it comes to the desktop.

Linux on the desktop makes progress when it emulates the most successful parts of Windows. Unfortunatley by the time it catches up, Windows has already moved ahead again.

	10-08-2004 10:32									#97
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Not a lot of truth in it. Generally, most of my classmates which I have advocated it to, have no problems.

quote: Linux on the desktop makes progress when it emulates the most successful parts of Windows. Unfortunatley by the time it catches up, Windows has already moved ahead again.

Wrong. It started behind, but it is catching up. The tortoise and the hare. Linux on the desktop is moving at a tad faster speed. It'll take some time to catch up yes, but there the disparity is closing. If you hadn't looked at Novell's and SuSE's new products...

quote: It illustrates how Linux itself is 5 years behind when it comes to the desktop.

American Conquest came out last year.

	10-08-2004 10:34									#98
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Or maybe they are giving you lip service.

	10-08-2004 10:35									#99
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How do you know? They really have no problems. I come over often.

When not occupied with homework, obviously.

	10-08-2004 10:36									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Wrong. It started behind, but it is catching up. The tortoise and the hare. Linux on the desktop is moving at a tad faster speed. It'll take some time to catch up yes, but there the disparity is closing. If you hadn't looked at Novell's and SuSE's new products...

Linux geeks say this every year. "In 5 years we will replace Windows on the desktop."

Well that was 5 years ago. And so the cycle continues.

Ximian is nice but it's no Windows.

	10-08-2004 10:37									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf Not a lot of truth in it. Generally, most of my classmates which I have advocated it to, have no problems.

I work at a large company that's pumping up Linux like no tomorrow, and you wouldn't believe the stories I hear at lunch about people's Linux installs.

You wouldn't believe the service cases I've had to deal with for Linux installs. 99% of the time it's a weird dependency error, or incompatible version of an obscure library that they didn't even know was installed. Linux is hell...

quote: Wrong. It started behind, but it is catching up. The tortoise and the hare. Linux on the desktop is moving at a tad faster speed. It'll take some time to catch up yes, but there the disparity is closing. If you hadn't looked at Novell's and SuSE's new products...

How is it moving faster? What kind of advancements has Linux's desktop environments made in the past, say, 3 years? Every new version of Gnome, people ***** about it more than they praise it. Many people hate the new Gtk filepicker because you can't even type in a frickin' filename.

Linux on the desktop now is comparable to somewhere between Win3.1/Win95 -- it's inconsistent, it's kludgey, it's under-responsive, and it's limited.

Linux is about 4 years from being on the level of quality, polish, and consistency of XP, and about 10 years from the technology of Longhorn.

	10-08-2004 10:40									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Natalinasmpf How do you know? They really have no problems. I come over often. When not occupied with homework, obviously.

I work with alot of Windows techies who come over and ask for advice on installing Linux, and all the UNIXes.


They want to learn Linux because they want to expand their skills. Normally they have no problems installing it since they use the newest Redhat/Fedora and it's pretty foolproof. (aka a Windows type installer which involves clicking the "next" button).

But the end result is that it always sits in the corner, maybe they use it once every blue moon.


When they want to get actual work done they use their trusted Windows workstations.

	10-08-2004 10:42									#103
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Linux has its place but the desktop is not one of them.


I'll use it occasionally for X forwarding and ssh but that's about it.

	10-08-2004 10:43									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Linux has its place but the desktop is not one of them. I'll use it occasionally for X forwarding and ssh but that's about it.

It's still a pain in the server/workstation world. I didn't think it was as much until I started working here. Linux cases are just so terrible, they cause headaches.

	10-08-2004 10:48									#105
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Dependency hell! My brain hurts just thinking about it.

Speaking of which, do you know of any free X servers for Windows? (Other than the Cygwin one).

We found one called WinAxe that is only $100, but other than that there doesn't seem to be anything else except for like Hummingbird which always runs at like $1500.

I'll use VNC sometimes but this I would like to find something that doesn't take up so much window space, something that runs as an app you can minimize to the task bar, etc. WinAxe does this but I'm a cheapskate.

	10-08-2004 10:49									#106
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I've no idea, I use Cygwin at home and Hummingbird at work.

	10-08-2004 10:49									#107
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I'm surprised your boys haven't made one yet, considering all the pimping they do for Linux, you would think an X server would come in handy. Espcially all of the installers have a cute GUI on them (like for Websphere and DB2).

	10-08-2004 10:51									#108
	Got spare money?

You'd think so, as it would make sense. A lot of things IBM does confuses the hell out of me.

The whole software organization is a mess. They've bought like 17 software companies in the past year and are trying to merge them all into our existing product lines.

	10-08-2004 10:52									#109
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Yeah, like when they release their own Apache.

	10-08-2004 10:52									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The whole software organization is a mess. They've bought like 17 software companies in the past year and are trying to merge them all into our existing product lines.

Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


Any notable ones worth mentioning?

	10-08-2004 10:54									#111
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I just saw they donated Cloudscape to Apache, pretty cool move.

	10-08-2004 10:56									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Whoahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Any notable ones worth mentioning?

They've all been public, just a lot of "no name" companies that do a lot for like business modelling software. Most of the companies were smaller ones with < 70 employees that IBM was one of the primary venture capitalists for, and then once they turned out a good product, IBM buys them up.

It was 17 since 2001, btw: http://news.com.com/IBM+buys+into+a..._3-5288470.html

quote: The purchase of Cyanea, which represents the 17th company that IBM's software group has bought since 2001, is consistent with IBM's plan to build out a broad set of tools for building, running and managing business applications, said John Swainson, IBM's vice president of worldwide software sales. Swainson recently took on the head software sales job after leading the WebSphere division. "We are always making buy vs. build decisions about how we can extend our portfolio," said Swainson. Swainson noted that application management--a market with several smaller, niche providers--is an area where IBM wants a full set of offerings that span older CICS and IMS mainframe-based transaction systems, along with WebSphere, which runs on Windows, Linux and Unix operating systems. Earlier this year IBM acquired Candle, an 18-year-old company that also sells application management tools. Chong and the Cyanea team have been given the task of consolidating the Cyanea tools with those from Candle and the Tivoli monitoring tools, Swainson said.

	10-08-2004 13:35									#113
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quote: 99% of the time it's a weird dependency error,

Wait, they use RPM's.

No wonder.

You might try what Linux was built for: compilation by source. Nothing easier than ./configure && make && make install.

quote: Longhorn.

Like "Trustworthy Computing", that Orwellian corporate scheme? I sure want to be up to date with Big Brother computing!

Many recent games run on my Linux box right now. Not an entire majority, but enough.

I can't afford XP, don't want ME, so Linux is my only choice. Not that I'd want XP anyway. I can concede right now, that Linux isn't the best choice right now for a desktop, and won't be for a few more years, but it doesn't mean it doesn't have a future.

	10-08-2004 14:27									#114
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Maybe a stupid question, but SP1 is a requirement for the installation of SP2, or does SP2 contain SP1?

	10-08-2004 18:00									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Maybe a stupid question, but SP1 is a requirement for the installation of SP2, or does SP2 contain SP1?

SP2 includes SP1.

	10-08-2004 18:23									#116
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thx

	10-08-2004 19:24									#117
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So Asher, when 2008 rolls around, you'd agree to install that Orwellian motherboard that on a hardware level restricts and redirects your information flow, in integration with Longhorn, possibly with wide range for both corporate and government abuse it in conjunction with the Patriot Act right?

	10-08-2004 19:26									#118
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I think it's fairly obvious you've no idea what TCPA is.

I'm using a TCPA 2.0 chip already on my ThinkPad, and I have only great things to say about it.

It doesn't redirect my information flow, it helps me protect it.

You've been reading too much Slashdot.

	10-08-2004 19:39									#119
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Its not slashdot. Seems a rather reputable source to me.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Large space for corporate abuse, locking out small programmers, protecting the large corporate base, restricting innovation from smaller companie, an Orwellian scheme....

Oh sure, it protects data, but only the current data they want to protect, Microsoft's, but smaller companies' software won't be allowed to run, later on, a huge capacity for that.

quote: easy for Microsoft and the music industry to control what players will work at all with new releases, it will be harder for you to escape. Control of media player software is so important that the EU antitrust authorities are proposing to penalise Microsoft for its anticompetitive behaviour by compelling it to unbundle Media Player, or include competing players in Windows. TC will greatly increase the depth and scope of media control.

"We don't like this new competitor. Lets lock him out!"

They don't exactly say that, but mass room for abuse.

	10-08-2004 19:47									#120
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It's the Slashdot crowd, and I've read that joke of an article a long time ago.

Believe it if you want to.

The author is a notorious anti-IP nutjob with an obvious bias. The entire article revolves around "what ifs" and "this is now possible".

It doesn't mention that TCPA ships disabled by default, and it's written in the very spec itself that a user needs to be able to disable it in the BIOS.

TCPA exists for corporations who don't want their classified data leaving their network, for people who enjoy having hardware-based security (public-key cryptography with the keys & cryptographic engine on a dedicated TCPA chip), etc. That's the spirit of TCPA.

That's why virtually every tech company is part of it, because it will help users actually make their PCs secure.

This bullshit article is fear mongering. Especially the preposterous idea that MS has to okay all software running on your computer (so they can lock competitors out). Did it ever occur to you that consumers simply would not upgrade to software like that? Did it ever occur to you that even Bush's administration would not allow such blatant anti-trust breaches? Did it ever occur to you that the very notion of MS being able to do that is in violation of the TCPA spec?