09-08-2004 09:40									#91
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: But have they really shown that yet? Yes, they've shown it to me by the video Busta refered to.

Is there anything that isn't a video? All I have to go on is what you guys say since I have a slow connection.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I really don't see how that does it. Because you get extra gold from fulfilling your exact boast. And that's the thing, you have to pick what you are going to try to do to get the extra gold. If you accomplish something else which you hadn't boasted, then you get jack for it, unlike other RPGs which may give you more experience and gold for doing something which wasn't even your plan. The boast makes you actively seek a goal for reward and not just get it because you do your quest well.

Meh. Those goals aren't even that big. Ooooo do something without getting hit. Again, they better have it so there is a chance of it not working since it's incredibly easy to never get hit in Morrowind, or even games like Jagged Alliance if you are good enough.

	09-08-2004 10:31									#92
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quote: Is there anything that isn't a video?

Um... it's a freaking video game for God's sake. You can't judge one without a video or it running on the screen right in front of you. Screenshots don't do any game justice.

quote: Meh. Those goals aren't even that big. Ooooo do something without getting hit. Again, they better have it so there is a chance of it not working since it's incredibly easy to never get hit in Morrowind, or even games like Jagged Alliance if you are good enough.

You are such a hater because this is an X-Box RPG. If it was Fallout 3 which boasted this, you'd be jumping up and down and declaring it to be the be all and end all. Admit it.

And I'd think doing a quest without getting a hit, doing a quest with no weapons, doing a quest with no armor are pretty big goals.

	09-08-2004 10:39									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Is there anything that isn't a video? Um... it's a freaking video game for God's sake. You can't judge one without a video or it running on the screen right in front of you. Screenshots don't do any game justice.

Well then I'll only be able to go on what you say. At least until August 25th when I'm back at my normal college.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Meh. Those goals aren't even that big. Ooooo do something without getting hit. Again, they better have it so there is a chance of it not working since it's incredibly easy to never get hit in Morrowind, or even games like Jagged Alliance if you are good enough. You are such a hater because this is an X-Box RPG. If it was Fallout 3 which boasted this, you'd be jumping up and down and declaring it to be the be all and end all. Admit it. And I'd think doing a quest without getting a hit, doing a quest with no weapons, doing a quest with no armor are pretty big goals.

I am not a hater. If this was Fallout 3 I'd be wondering why they were adding in this stuff and would be worrying Bethesda was going to **** it up. Just like I eventually was going with some of Fallout: Tactics gimmicks.

Without getting hit?
Again: Morrowind, JA

Without weapons?
Well, spells are pretty powerful

Armor?
Monks never use armor. And ranged attacks can make it quite easy. Heck, in BG1 you could kill Ankhegs at level one if you had an archer and just kept running away.

	09-08-2004 10:47									#94
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quote: If this was Fallout 3 I'd be wondering why they were adding in this stuff and would be worrying Bethesda was going to **** it up.

Uh huh... and if it is was Troika, you'd be sucking their ****, like you have been doing (even though Arcanum wasn't that great of a game and you treat it like it was God's gift).

quote: Without getting hit? Again: Morrowind, JA Without weapons? Well, spells are pretty powerful Armor? Monks never use armor. And ranged attacks can make it quite easy. Heck, in BG1 you could kill Ankhegs at level one if you had an archer and just kept running away.

You are really something. So because in some games you could do some quests without getting hit, or without weapons, or without armor, that means it should be easy to win boasts in Fable too?

Of course all those games had the threat of losing gold for not finishing the boast either? Oh, but you'll find something utterly unrelated to attempt to lie your way into saying they did.

	09-08-2004 11:01									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If this was Fallout 3 I'd be wondering why they were adding in this stuff and would be worrying Bethesda was going to **** it up. Uh huh... and if it is was Troika, you'd be sucking their ****, like you have been doing (even though Arcanum wasn't that great of a game and you treat it like it was God's gift).

I don't really see Troika doing this. And lets take another PC game. I was really interesting in Republic for a while until I decided a lot of it's **** was gimmicky and wouldn't be implimented well.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Without getting hit? Again: Morrowind, JA Without weapons? Well, spells are pretty powerful Armor? Monks never use armor. And ranged attacks can make it quite easy. Heck, in BG1 you could kill Ankhegs at level one if you had an archer and just kept running away. You are really something. So because in some games you could do some quests without getting hit, or without weapons, or without armor, that means it should be easy to win boasts in Fable too? Of course all those games had the threat of losing gold for not finishing the boast either? Oh, but you'll find something utterly unrelated to attempt to lie your way into saying they did.

I didn't say this was definitely going to happen with Fable, just that they better make it not a sure thing. And who really cares about losing gold? In what game was gold a serious problem and you didn't end up having more than you knew what to do with at the end of the game?

	09-08-2004 11:05									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident It might be a good game, then it might not. I'm not cynical like some people appear to be. I have learned to use the wait and see tactic. I'm tired of buying bad games. My main problem with this game is it's on the X-box. Therefore no demo. I won't consider buyuing this game until I can play it first.

There are lots of Xbox demos.

	09-08-2004 15:51									#97
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The change of skin colour is interesting, I'll give them that, but hopefully the gimmick won't get in the way of letting me play a black (or whatever colour) character. All the screenshots I've seen posted here are of white people.
And in that shot where one cuts the other's head off - how was that possible, given where the defender's sword is?
Not something to be too bothered about though.

	09-08-2004 16:46									#98
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quote: Again, what ideas in the game are really that new? I'll admit some of them might be the next step in some areas if they are implimented well, but what is truly new?

you're just stonewalling, you're plugging your eyes and saying "****, ****, ****, its just ****, ****, ****".

Every game is just a new spin off of an old idea. The thing that really makes me excited about Fable is that if everything is how they say it is it will begin a whole new era for RPG's. The player will really start to be the avatar and not just the person controlling a cartoon character, it will be like a second life. It will be one step closer to the holo-decks on Star Trek. Thats every gamers wet dream is to have a holo-deck to play games in, is it not?

quote: And in that shot where one cuts the other's head off - how was that possible, given where the defender's sword is?

you're missing the point. he cut the dudes head off.

	09-08-2004 18:07									#99
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Indeed Space. Fable, if they can pull it all off, seems to be the Half-Life of RPGs in terms of redefining the genre in terms of immersiveness. Half-Life did it with FPS by including a story which was more than 'kill more stuff'. Fable seems like they are including a more realistic experience to RPGs, where you aren't just your class or your species (ie, you define your character in terms of being a monk or a dwarf), but you actually are the avatar.

	09-08-2004 23:37									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us quote: Again, what ideas in the game are really that new? I'll admit some of them might be the next step in some areas if they are implimented well, but what is truly new? you're just stonewalling, you're plugging your eyes and saying "****, ****, ****, its just ****, ****, ****". Every game is just a new spin off of an old idea. The thing that really makes me excited about Fable is that if everything is how they say it is it will begin a whole new era for RPG's. The player will really start to be the avatar and not just the person controlling a cartoon character, it will be like a second life. It will be one step closer to the holo-decks on Star Trek. Thats every gamers wet dream is to have a holo-deck to play games in, is it not?

Well, some things are really innovative. Like some of the stuff in RoN. And the thing is, this game is running on "new" ideas that aren't new. Fallout and Arcanum ran on story and atmosphere. Dungeon Siege ran on combat. Diablo ran on a dress-up game. You know? They were good on what they advertised. If there was more to it than them saying they have new **** that isn't that new, then maybe it'd come off better. I'm not saying the avatar won't be fun, and I might buy this game, but I don't see why everyone is spluging everywhere.

	09-08-2004 23:39									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Indeed Space. Fable, if they can pull it all off, seems to be the Half-Life of RPGs in terms of redefining the genre in terms of immersiveness. Half-Life did it with FPS by including a story which was more than 'kill more stuff'. Fable seems like they are including a more realistic experience to RPGs, where you aren't just your class or your species (ie, you define your character in terms of being a monk or a dwarf), but you actually are the avatar.

Yeah, it kinda cool but who cares if you can have an avatar if there isn't a word to back up it. Customizability of character isn't what's going to create atmosphere for a game. You need story to back it up. And the cartoonish graphics aren't really helping. I don't care for detailed graphics, they just have to be decent.

	10-08-2004 00:48									#102
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So cartoonish graphics (a critique I don't understand at all) mean the story is going to suck? Call the makers of Zelda and let them know!!

Get off it, Apoc, we all see through you and your anti-console bias. You got no basis in anything for your assertions of a 'bad' story at all. You just want to shoot arrows because it would hurt you badly if a console RPG was declared 'best'. You did the same thing with KOTOR.

	10-08-2004 01:07									#103
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Damn, Imran I never said cartoon graphics = bad story. Just that they mean a bad atmosphere. I mentioned FFVII having a good story and it had cartoonish graphics.

I'm not worried about it being the best. Maybe if they talked more about how good the story was I'd be disappointed because I don't have my own Xbox and would have to use my office's one to play it. You're just remembering my bias from three years ago and putting it on me again. I've changed a lot in three years just like I did in the three years before.

	10-08-2004 04:21									#104
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quote: Just that they mean a bad atmosphere.

Why?

	10-08-2004 04:45									#105
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So cartoonish graphics (a critique I don't understand at all) mean the story is going to suck? Call the makers of Zelda and let them know!! Get off it, Apoc, we all see through you and your anti-console bias. You got no basis in anything for your assertions of a 'bad' story at all. You just want to shoot arrows because it would hurt you badly if a console RPG was declared 'best'. You did the same thing with KOTOR.

I'm not sure I like cartoonish graphics. This is why I'm worried about World of Warcraft. I'm not sure I like the graphics.

	10-08-2004 05:49									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Just that they mean a bad atmosphere. Why?

It's too much a caricature.

	10-08-2004 05:56									#107
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yeah. Cel-shading

	10-08-2004 09:08									#108
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Those graphics are good enough imho, they could be far far worse. They may be a bit cartoony as a sacrafice to increase framerate, a problem that Morrowind on X-box suffered from greatly was a bad frame rate. How would you guys want them to look anyway?

quote: Again with the gimmicks. That's all they care to talk about. But not a word about the story. Compared to the story, you'll have to admit that your character's appearance is pretty secondary. Makes me wonder.... I'm sure there's a story (I was joking earlier), but either they want to keep it secret, or they're not working that hard on it, or they worked mainly on the bells and whistles up until now.

The story is; you are an orphaned teenager who takes on the quest for vengence, you will kill the mother ****ers who nailed your dog to the door. As you go through life you do heroic deeds and (Id assume) as you go along you find hints about who is responsible, and eventualy you find the megolomaniac-mad-would-be-destroyer of peoples pet dogs and put an end to him/her/it and save the world. The End. The most cliche RPG story of all time. Thats what I understand the main storyline to be, nothing great (as with all RPGs) but enough to hold your attention while you adventure through an amazing world with tons of kick-ass gimmicks and good [enough] graphics.

Im sure everyone who buys this game will start posting on Apolyton about thier life story, and who they are, how they married a princess and hold the title "kicker of a million chickens". How they killed all of the bandits on such and such road while on thier way battle king koopa and the mini bowsers....... how they slept with 20 women in one night and raided an entire village afterward in celebration.

	10-08-2004 09:53									#109
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For one,they could make the graphics less bold and bright. Another thing could be make the eyes a little more normal sized.

And RPGs have been able to have great storylines. Even console ones.

"how they married a princess "
Possible in so many games.

"hold the title "kicker of a million chickens""
lots of games have titles you can earn

"killed all of the bandits on such and such road"
Baldurs Gate anyone?

"slept with 20 women in one night"
The girls in Fallout can be ****ed too and they are made with weird looking graphics

"raided an entire village afterward in celebration"
if you think this is new...oh come on....

	10-08-2004 11:22									#110
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quote: "how they married a princess " Possible in so many games. "hold the title "kicker of a million chickens"" lots of games have titles you can earn "killed all of the bandits on such and such road" Baldurs Gate anyone? "slept with 20 women in one night" The girls in Fallout can be ****ed too and they are made with weird looking graphics "raided an entire village afterward in celebration" if you think this is new...oh come on....

Wow, you really missed the point on that one.

	10-08-2004 11:29									#111
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Ok, then what's the point?

	10-08-2004 11:32									#112
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quote: Ok, then what's the point?

We'll all enjoy it, and share our adventures with our fellow 'Polytubbies.

	10-08-2004 20:15									#113
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Apoc seems to constantly be missing the point because of his irrational hatred for this game before it even comes out (and don't even try to deny it).

quote: It's too much a caricature.

The best atmosphere I've seen in a game in the last few years is 'Beyond Good and Evil' which had 'cartoony' graphics, so, sorry your hater arguments are shot down once again.

	10-08-2004 20:28									#114
	Got spare money?

quote: We'll all enjoy it, and share our adventures with our fellow 'Polytubbies.

Indeed... the so-called 'gimmicks' add immersiveness and allow for better storytelling to other players than other RPGs.

	10-08-2004 20:34									#115
	Put an end to popups!

Imran, you can't slag off Apocalypse for making such comments, when you're already judging the game without playing it. The gimmicks have the potential to "add immersiveness", sure, but they could also prove to be a right pain in the neck after only a few games and start to put people off the game rather than attract them to it. We'll all just have to wait and see how it turns out.

	10-08-2004 20:37									#116
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quote: you can't slag off Apocalypse for making such comments

Of course I can. He strides into the thread just wanting to knock the game down and making inane comments like 'cartoony' graphics make the game too much of a characture and thus doesn't have good atmosphere . He's got an irrational hatred for the game already without seeing anything about it. I'm just excited by what has been confirmed for the game and watching the videos of the game in action, ie a rational expectation of what the game can be.

To make an analogy, it'd be like when Starcraft was first coming out and I was excited based on videos I saw and features I was told were going to be with the game; and Apoc standing there saying X had been done in Warcraft 2 and Y had been done in another game and Z had been done in Game 3, so Starcraft really wasn't that innovative and people who were saying that it could be the best RTS of all time had no basis for that.

Oh, and the 'cartoony' graphics of Starcraft detracted from the atmosphere of the game so that was a minus as well.

	10-08-2004 21:11									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: some examples of missions you have to complete. One was a fed ex mission. The other one was spying on a cheating husband. And another one was taking care of crooks. I don't know about you, but I expected something a little more epic So quests which are found in just about every RPG means Fable isn't as epic as the others?

I'm trying to explain to you (and to myself) why I'm not excited about this game. And these examples of missions are not exactly enticing... I know that we find these kinds of missions in just about every other RPG. But Fable is probably the first RPG to sell itself with fed ex missions. And we still haven't heard a peep about the main quests...

	10-08-2004 21:54									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Felch A fresh X-box is cheaper than a new graphics card. Consoles are far less expensive than PCs even if you buy a whole new one every two or three years.

economics of consoles vs PCs really gets into personal situations to a considerable degree. Ive seen lots of arguments for consoles that assumes that once you own a PC you will never buy a new one except for games, and assume that if you game on PC, you will play FPS and other graphics intensive games, and then proceed to compare the cycle PC purchase and Video card upgrade cycle to the console cycle.

An unscientific survey here suggests that plenty of new PC's are purchased because of A. A change in family structure - a young person moving out, a family deciding to have more PCs, etc B. PC ceases to have specs required for non-game software, or desire to have other new features C. Physical breakdown of old PC.

Really, how many NON-gamers still have 486 or earlier PCs, and no other? Sooner or later everyones gonna replace anyway. And if you DO game on PCs and mainly play genres that are NOT particularly graphics intensive, youre replacement/upgrade cycle will look very different, and you will save very little on hardware by switching all your gameplaying to Consoles, even if your choice of games allowed that. There are of course other considerations in both directions.

If, like myself you mainly play TBS, historical wargames, citybuilders, and only dabble with RPGs and other genres, theres really no good reason to get a console, that i can see. IF you are a serious RPG player, this new game Fable, MAY, together with other factors, sway you toward an Xbox, but that will depend on everyones individual situation.

	10-08-2004 22:00									#119
	Put an end to popups!

TBS games can also require faster computers - witness C3 on a huge map.

	10-08-2004 22:22									#120
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: you can't slag off Apocalypse for making such comments Of course I can. He strides into the thread just wanting to knock the game down and making inane comments like 'cartoony' graphics make the game too much of a characture and thus doesn't have good atmosphere . He's got an irrational hatred for the game already without seeing anything about it.

well it least he didnt say its racist or will make kids act out