16-08-2004 09:42									#61
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What facts?

	16-08-2004 09:47									#62
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Um businesses shutting down, perhaps? Che doesn't disagree, he just says the owners closed them to manipulate opinion against Chavez... fantastic the lengths the conspiracy theory can go.

	16-08-2004 09:53									#63
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Fantastic? Yes, a business shutting down to manipulate political opinion is radically different from Enron shutting down power plants in California to manipulate... stuff.

	16-08-2004 09:56									#64
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Enron didn't lose money buy shutting down power plants.

	16-08-2004 10:07									#65
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Chavez is losing. Woot!

	16-08-2004 10:10									#66
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quote: Show us your proof

There was a documentary crew in Venezuela making a film at the time of the coup. They got the whole thing on tape, including the so called incident where Chavez supporters fired on protesters. They then showed the "independent" Venezuelan media reports. What the "independent" media did was stitch together film from two separate incidents to make it look as if Chavez' supporters had fired on the protest (if you remember, that was a big deal at the time). In fact, if you ran the film on it showed that the Chavez supporters were firing back at snipers who were attacking them. The camera panned over the area where the opposition protesters who were "being fired on" were in the other film and there was no one there. The film showing Chavez supporters attacking the opposition was a cut and paste job.

After seeing that it was pretty plain to me that the opposition dominated media was just making stuff up.

The rest of the documentary was a pretty big eye opener too. Whatever you think of the politics of the filmmakers, they hit a home run with the protest footage.

I forget what the documentary was called, it played on The Passionate Eye here a number of times last year. Have a look around, there may be a copy on the web. I think this is it:

http://www.chavezthefilm.com/html/home.htm

	16-08-2004 10:12									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Chavez is losing. Woot!

Well, he has all but one media outlet against him. It was always going to be hard.

	16-08-2004 10:18									#68
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Don't worry, Aggie. He probably won't accept the election results anyway and then they'll have to kill him. That'll provide decades worth of fodder for leftist conspiracy theorists...

	16-08-2004 10:19									#69
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Hmm. If Chavez does lose, he's going to run again in the upcoming election.

UK's Independent Newspaper Falsifies Venezuela Election Results!

Critical Stakes in Venezuela's Election

	16-08-2004 10:25									#70
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Yes for Plutocracy...

Attachment: temp_yes.jpg
This has been downloaded 81 time(s).

	16-08-2004 10:26									#71
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...or for Democracy?

Attachment: temp_no.jpg
This has been downloaded 81 time(s).

	16-08-2004 10:27									#72
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Agathon There was a documentary crew in Venezuela making a film at the time of the coup.

No comment....

www.petitiononline.com/gusano03/petition.html

	16-08-2004 10:41									#73
	Put an end to popups!

As I said, you can fault the politics of the documentary makers, but the proved to any reasonable person that the opposition were liars. The film clip in that case spoke for itself.

I make no substantive claims about the rest of it.

quote: Don't worry, Aggie. He probably won't accept the election results anyway and then they'll have to kill him.

That would be out of character. He has always been pretty scrupulous when it comes to votes. Trash the guy for other things if you like, but don't accuse him of that. If he'd wanted to act like a fascist, he could have stopped the recall.

	16-08-2004 10:44									#74
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quote: Originally posted by JCG No comment.... www.petitiononline.com/gusano03/petition.html

The site's down.

	16-08-2004 10:59									#75
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It's a complaint about the film I referenced. However, it's besides the point. You could complain all you like about the structure and focus of the film, but no reasonable person who saw the media reports and then the clip of the protest could deny that the Venezuelan media did a cut and paste job. I've yet to see similar proof that Chavez has done anything like this.

	16-08-2004 13:28									#76
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http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackag...62§ion=news



I have absolutely no idea whom to believe.

Must say that the yes campaign has the better posters.

	16-08-2004 13:29									#77
	Remove this text

I retract the last statement (not the one about the breasts)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3569012.stm

Chavez seems to be winning.

	16-08-2004 13:36									#78
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Chavez

	16-08-2004 13:40									#79
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Whatever one says and whoever wins, this is a win for democracy. The turnout was huge according to Jimmy Carter (an official observer).

	16-08-2004 13:43									#80
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http://www.vheadline.com/main.asp

reports a Chavez win by the same margin. I don't know how credible they are.

	16-08-2004 14:04									#81
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OK - it's been called. Chavez wins by 58% to 42%.

COMMUNISTS REJOICE!!!!

arty:

Drake: Dewey beats Truman!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3569012.stm

quote: There have been passionate scenes outside Miraflores presidential palace, where Mr Chavez has been singing to his cheering supporters.

Singing? Oh Lord....

	16-08-2004 14:32									#83
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As said I won't say anything

	16-08-2004 14:40									#84
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_Don't they have their little red book and the "New Left Handbook Of Anti-American Insults" handy?


_you know those are totally ineffective against the thick skulls of americans.



ROTFL

	16-08-2004 14:54									#85
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Where oh where are our Poly righties...

...oh where oh where can they be...

	16-08-2004 15:03									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon OK - it's been called. Chavez wins by 58% to 42%. COMMUNISTS REJOICE!!!! arty:

Not unexpected, Chavez always had popular support.

	16-08-2004 15:13									#87
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The problem for the anti-Chavez opposition is thus:
1. These are the people whom, even with billions in oil wealth, have let millions poor-heck, the Gulf Arabs at least spread the wealth about some-not in Venezuela.

2. All that keeps them together is hate for Chavez- otherwise they have no coherent message.

	16-08-2004 15:18									#88
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I am not a big fan of Chavez, but I hope that his actions will bring prosperity to all of the Venezuelan people.

	16-08-2004 15:24									#89
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Just heard on the news that the opposition in Venezuela refuses to accept the results.

Like I am surprised.

	16-08-2004 15:33									#90
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JUST LIKE AL GORE.