17-08-2004 00:52									#151
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Voting against Chavez is not necessarily equal to subverting democracy, considering that Venezuela's Bolivarian constitution allows for such a referendum.

It may be argued that the top leadership of the opposition camp might want to subvert democracy.

But it is unfair and unrealistic to attribute that same objective to the full 42% of voters (who statistically can't be all "oil and media barons", can they?) who expressed any degree of dissent regarding the current government of Venezuela.

	17-08-2004 00:55									#152
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I don't have any compunction about projecting my views on this situation.

Oh wow, so you've read an article in the economist. That hardly makes you an expert but considering the overall post quality in regard to the issue of the thread, that might very well put you in the top 3 %.

As far as I know, the fundamental problems in the economic structure of Venezuela hasn't been seriously dealt with by any of it's administrations in recent history. In fact, the GDP development has been going pretty much downward the last couple of decades. Chavez is hardly part of the solution* - his policies is obviously not promoting investements - but the problem is older than his time in power. I'm not convinced that the opposition is able to everything so much better. Granted, Chavez exit would obviously lead to a short time boom with perhaps long time benefits, but the 'people' seems to have made their choice.

* I'd go on your line here and define political goals as equal to GDP growth

	17-08-2004 00:55									#153
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DP.

	17-08-2004 01:01									#154
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Well Bush has the benefit of not tanking the economy to the extent Chavez has.

Yeah, it didn't go that far down- but of course Chavez had the help of his opponents, while Bush did it all himself....

	17-08-2004 01:02									#155
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Whatever Fez.

Your side lost and its lies were exposed and continue to be exposed (by Jimmy Carter of all people).

You were wrong. Just like about the war. Deal with it.

	17-08-2004 01:03									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Your side lost and its lies were exposed and continue to be exposed (by Jimmy Carter of all people). You were wrong. Just like about the war. Deal with it.

He is right. You are Fez

	17-08-2004 01:41									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Your side lost and its lies were exposed and continue to be exposed (by Jimmy Carter of all people). You were wrong. Just like about the war. Deal with it.

As DD has shown, righties don't accept their utter "wrongness"... they just call you names when they can't do anything else.

NYAAAAA YOU ARE FEXZZ THAT MEANS I R TEH RIGHT!

	17-08-2004 02:01									#158
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quote: Originally posted by JCG But it is unfair and unrealistic to attribute that same objective to the full 42% of voters (who statistically can't be all "oil and media barons", can they?) who expressed any degree of dissent regarding the current government of Venezuela.

Yes, but how much of that 42% is rational? The media in Venezuela is all against Chavez, and spreading rather nasty lies about him. I suspect a large part of the public that voted against him did so because they'd been blitzed with anti-Chavez propaganda for the last few years about how he's destroying the country. Kinda like Clinton haters who were convinced that he was going to overthrow the government and hand the U.S. over to the U.N.

	17-08-2004 02:05									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Your side lost and its lies were exposed and continue to be exposed (by Jimmy Carter of all people). You were wrong. Just like about the war. Deal with it.

Sure, Chavez could convince a bunch of peasants to vote for him - a few slogans and breakfast will buy a lot of votes in Latinamerica.

Reality is that Chavez is a thug who is amassing power to himself and his cronies, and plundering the economy in the process, when he isn't ****ing it over with the usual communist idiocy that has failed repeatedly. Just another set of pigs at the trough, but that's fine with the commies, because that's their goal in any case.

	17-08-2004 02:42									#160
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quote: Originally posted by Sava As DD has shown, righties don't accept their utter "wrongness"... they just call you names when they can't do anything else.

I insult people when thier posts deserve it. I rarely insult che or Ramo for example.

	17-08-2004 02:58									#161
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quote: Yep, the common white male with a six figure income.

Sorry MtG, but the salt of the earth votes Republican...

quote: Hey, the republican party covers rednecks, and they most definitelly are common men!

See, even GePap knows the truth.

	17-08-2004 03:05									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Yep, the common white male with a six figure income. Sorry MtG, but the salt of the earth votes Republican...

Yup. Just goes to show how trully dumb they are- damned peons. The urbane, civilized, cosmopolitan individuals vote democratic.

	17-08-2004 03:11									#163
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Snob.

	17-08-2004 03:18									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Snob.

Thank you. We gave those damned peons their tractors. Yet they aren;t even grateful enough to do our bidding

We need to show those peons again who is the boss.

	17-08-2004 03:21									#165
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I'm somewhat shocked to see how well he did in CA.

	17-08-2004 03:24									#166
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He lost by at least a million votes there. The fact Wyoming is geographically bigger than Massachussets, Connecticut, Rhode Island and NJ does not hide the fact about 15-20 times more people live in those small states put toghether than Wyoming.

Heck, Even though he lost California decisively, he got more votes there than in Wyoming, Utah and Nebraska, 3 states where he won every county.

	17-08-2004 04:01									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Yep, the common white male with a six figure income. Sorry MtG, but the salt of the earth votes Republican... quote: Hey, the republican party covers rednecks, and they most definitelly are common men! See, even GePap knows the truth.

Commies convince the peasants that they really are for the people too. Your point?

	17-08-2004 04:13									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Sorry MtG, but the salt of the earth votes Republican...

That's because their minister tells them that the Democrats want to let homosexuals eat aborted fetuses. If they'd stop trying to undermine education, they might learn their minister is FoS.

BTW, the common man is not the same as the salt of the Earth. Farmers make up 5% of the population, which is pretty damned far from being common.

	17-08-2004 04:19									#169
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's because their minister tells them that the Democrats want to let homosexuals eat aborted fetuses. If they'd stop trying to undermine education, they might learn their minister is FoS.

You mean they don't do that?

	17-08-2004 04:49									#170
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damnit, beaten to the punch.

	17-08-2004 06:29									#171
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Aparently proof that the US Republican party has a Euro branch and that you refuse to deal with posts from earlier in this thread.

Why would I deal with a post from a European when we're talking about the U.S. Republican Party?

	17-08-2004 06:35									#172
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We're talking about how its a loss for the average Venezuelan not your pet peaves about Republicans. I merely sought to provide you a source of criticism you might not automatically dismiss. I'm sorry that it appears I set my sights too high.

	17-08-2004 06:52									#173
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Next time find something relevant. It wasn't relevant. I didn't, after all, say that Republicans weren't the only people who didn't care about common people. They have a lot of company.

	17-08-2004 06:55									#174
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There, there Boris. I'll remember not to bother responding when your making a throw-away point from now on. It only causes headaches.

	17-08-2004 06:56									#175
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quote: Reality is that Chavez is a thug who is amassing power to himself and his cronies, and plundering the economy in the process, when he isn't ****ing it over with the usual communist idiocy that has failed repeatedly.

Rubbish. He's a popular social democrat who has used his political power to provide things like health care and literacy programs to the poor, things that are common in most developed societies. It just so happens he has to deal with an entrenched elite who think they have the right to run things for themselves.

Have to say that for most Venezuelans the previous 50 years sucked, so I don't blame them for electing Chavez, who is actually trying to do something about it.

	17-08-2004 07:13									#176
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chavez is teh gay

	17-08-2004 07:16									#177
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An interesting side note is that the opposition didn't even receive votes anywhere near the number of signatures that they collected to force the referendum in the first place.

Looks like Chavez was right about a significant number of those signatures being fake.

They cheated and they still couldn't win.

	17-08-2004 10:06									#178
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Chavez erred. He should have led a revolution to topple the government. That would enable him to swipe away entrenched groups with vested interests.

	17-08-2004 10:17									#179
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I just saw reported that one female protester is dead and four others wounded after Chavez supporters opened fire on a demonstration held by the opposition, protesting what they claimed to be widespread election fraud.

	17-08-2004 10:18									#180
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Armed Revolutions