26-08-2004 16:41									#211
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Every major world power in history has acted the same way. It is only natural for a dominant economic power to reach out and protect or control the resources that its dominance relies on. The US is better than most in the fact that usually billions in other type of aid befalls these countries.

Yeah yeah, so much for 'US Exceptionalism', that whole "we're not like all those nasty old empires from the nasty old world, we're shinny and new and inherently good and just and true" bollocks the rest of the world has to put up with from your country. Every empire can justify it's imperialism by saying 'Oh but we build lots of roads everywhere and our forts keep the peace', that's no more then the Romans could say.

Empires protect their interests, the Mafia protects its interests, Serial-Killers protect their interests, and Neo-Colonialist Empires like the USA protects its interests. I'm interested in my neigbours wife and daughter and car and teevee too, all of my neibours things are interesting to me, and therefore they are in my interests.

As for the aid that 'befalls' those nations the US screws over, the word 'befall' is quite apt. We're usually talking billions of dollars of military and security aid so the US-backed puppet regimes can better oppress and control their people and crush out all those populist 'We Will Educate Your Children & Supply Medicine & Food'-type movements that are so popular down there in the lands of ignorant and ungrateful anti-Western savages.

The US actually contributes the least food-aid of any nation in the world considering it's size and wealth etc. Norway contributes more then the US, well done Norway, but you don't hear all those fur-wrapped blondes boasting in a loud voice about how generous and good they are all the time, while raining bombs on civilian populations, wrecking 3rd-world nations, poisoning their lands for generations to come, and thinking it's good that they kill torture and maim a little less thousands then undisguised Tyrants do.

	26-08-2004 16:48									#212
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Did someone say something? I was busy enjoying in the warm, comforting feeling that comes with being different from and better than every other nationality on the planet...

	26-08-2004 17:20									#213
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Okay Drake, you carry on being Drake.

Personaly just I'm enjoying the warm comfy feeling of superiority (marred only a little by Lying Tony) that comes from not having been born in America, from not being Ignorant, and not being a big fat SUV-chugging burger-eater who consumes my way through sixty percent of the worlds resources and whose violent gun-swamped culture has no civic spirit whatsoever (nor understanding of the concept) and executes and imprisons more of it's own people then Iran and China combined, which adds generously to it's history steeped in slavery and genocide to put a very Orwellian spin indeed to the term 'Land of the Free'.

*Not that all Americans are ignorant, but alot are considering the power they have to enlighten themselves compared to some goat-herdsman somewhere who is provided with roughly the same amount of world-knowledge and history as many Americans provide themselves with.

	26-08-2004 17:33									#214
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God, being American sure is great...

	26-08-2004 17:44									#216
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I think the best part of being American is the jealously every other nationality feels towards you. It's great having your superiority proven by other people's envious curses...

	26-08-2004 17:49									#217
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! Holy Carp Jake, say what you will about me and call me nasty names but one thing: Do. Not. Ever. call me jelous of Americans.

What the Christ were you thinking!?

There is nothing so wrong with my life that I am jelous of not being born American. Likewise I hope I will never feel so much pain and despair as to become someone who believes in god.

	26-08-2004 17:54									#218
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quote: Holy Carp Jake, say what you will about me and call me nasty names but one thing: Do. Not. Ever. call me jelous of Americans.

When did I say I was talking about you? Seems like I inadvertantly hit upon the truth...

	26-08-2004 17:56									#219
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Both of you are being jerks.[/Captain Obvious]

OT: Withdrawl good. Cold War over. Many people don't want us there anyway. Other places we can go. Should withdraw from SK as well.

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 17:56									#220
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quote: When did I say I was talking about you? Seems like I inadvertantly hit upon the truth...

Well if you weren't talking about me then okay then.

No inadvertant truth hitting upon occured here, carry on with your Draking.

	26-08-2004 17:57									#221
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quote: Both of you are being jerks.

You're just jealous of my American-ness...

	26-08-2004 17:58									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Both of you are being jerks.[/Captain Obvious]

Disagree. Drake is trolling very skillful, and PC is being his poor victim, now that is obvious.

	26-08-2004 18:02									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Disagree. Drake is trolling very skillful, and PC is being his poor victim, now that is obvious.

Not so, playing Toro! Toro! with American patriots is educational and fun.

	26-08-2004 18:03									#224
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Will you guys stop to distract me from my work now??!?

	26-08-2004 18:09									#225
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The difference, PC, is that your posts are long and involved, but end up being on the same level of jackassery as Drake's one-liners. So in a sense Sir Ralph is correct.

edit: Oh, bah, Sir Ralph! We Americans know that your Eurocoms don't actually do any work! Unlike me, of course. I'm working hard right now. Or is it hardly working?

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 18:32									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian edit: Oh, bah, Sir Ralph! We Americans know that your Eurocoms don't actually do any work! Unlike me, of course. I'm working hard right now. Or is it hardly working?

It seems to me, that we're both doing about the same right now. Which counts as "hardly working" in my books.

	26-08-2004 18:37									#227
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True, true. But at least for you the day is almost over. It's just past 9:30 am here.

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 19:56									#228
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I agree that the pullout of US forces in Europe is long overdue.

I do wonder though, how quick the same folks who are cheering us as we leave and telling us to "never come back" will be to beg us back if/when something nasty happens that they cannot, or will not deal with on their own.

Not that that's ever happened before, mind....



-=Vel=-

	26-08-2004 20:16									#229
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Like we begged for France's help during the revolutionary war, Vel?

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 20:19									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian The difference, PC, is that your posts are long and involved, but end up being on the same level of jackassery as Drake's one-liners. So in a sense Sir Ralph is correct. edit: Oh, bah, Sir Ralph! We Americans know that your Eurocoms don't actually do any work! Unlike me, of course. I'm working hard right now. Or is it hardly working? -Arrian

So I like to aire my rabidly anti-American and self-rightious opinions at the slightest excuse troll or no troll, so sue me why dontcha.

	26-08-2004 20:22									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx I agree that the pullout of US forces in Europe is long overdue. I do wonder though, how quick the same folks who are cheering us as we leave and telling us to "never come back" will be to beg us back if/when something nasty happens that they cannot, or will not deal with on their own. Not that that's ever happened before, mind.... -=Vel=-

Total Fantasy Land. This is on the same level as

'If I go away then they'll be sorry, then they'll wish I was back, they'll want my help to defeat the Lurking Evil that only I am able to combat... those ungrateful bs'tards... think they're so sophisticated and cool, I'll show them, I'll show them ALL'

etc etc.

	26-08-2004 20:22									#232
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Point taken, Brother Arrian...however, since that time, we've proved ourselve pretty capable and willing to meet any problem encountered head on.

And that approach has served us well.

OTOH, we've been called across the pond twice now, and relatively close together, at that.

I still think it's a good idea....I'm just...cautious.

History repeats, and I'd rather not see it repeat in Europe.

-=Vel=-

	26-08-2004 20:22									#233
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quote: So I like to aire my rabidly anti-American and self-rightious opinions at the slightest excuse

Captain Obvious strikes again. No, really? I hadn't noticed.

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 20:23									#234
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Right you are, PC...cos it's never happened before, has it?

Not once?

Ahhh....you're right...NOT once...twice! My memory...slips sometimes.

Don't worry tho...we're leaving.

And then we shall see.

Yes?

-=Vel=-

	26-08-2004 20:24									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Captain Obvious strikes again. No, really? I hadn't noticed. -Arrian

Really? You hadn't noticed? Oh my, how odd... I'd thought I'd made myself quite clear...

	26-08-2004 20:26									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Right you are, PC...cos it's never happened before, has it? Not once? Ahhh....you're right...NOT once...twice! My memory...slips sometimes. Don't worry tho...we're leaving. And then we shall see. Yes? -=Vel=-

Yes, And Then We Shall See what Europe will do when the evil scheming hordes of Iceland seize their opportunity to STRIKE!

or will it be some 3rd World Ruined Economy whose vast expansionist war machine we must all fear this time, ala Saddam Husseins nuke-bristling Iraq?

	26-08-2004 20:28									#237
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Do you think so much has changed?

Are human beings so fundamentally different today than they were in the 40's that it is impossible to imagine?

I'll bet they thought that after WWI, too.

But you keep on telling yourself that, cowboy, if it helps.

In the meantime, we'll be across the pond if/when you need us.

-=Vel=-

	26-08-2004 20:30									#238
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Vel,

quote: This is on the same level as 'If I go away then they'll be sorry, then they'll wish I was back, they'll want my help to defeat the Lurking Evil that only I am able to combat... those ungrateful bs'tards... think they're so sophisticated and cool, I'll show them, I'll show them ALL' etc etc.

He's right on this. I think many of us have this reaction for no good (read: rational) reason. People dress it up in different clothes, but at the end of the day it's about hurt feelings. Emotional attachment to one's nation-state... the cause of many, many troubles.

-Arrian

	26-08-2004 20:32									#239
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And if something *does* happen, what will you rely on? The mighty Euro military machine that put a swift, decisive end to the fighting in Kosovo, perhaps?

Is that the military machine you mean to use for defense, should defense be required? Cos when we pull out, we're taking our toys home, so I was just wondering.

-=Vel=-

	26-08-2004 20:34									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Velociryx Do you think so much has changed? Are human beings so fundamentally different today than they were in the 40's that it is impossible to imagine? I'll bet they thought that after WWI, too. But you keep on telling yourself that, cowboy, if it helps. In the meantime, we'll be across the pond if/when you need us. -=Vel=-

Well, at least you mean well, in a sweet yet dillusional kinda way.