19-08-2004 05:44									#181
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph This is a matter of definition. To meddle into a civil war from outside, thus making it an interstate war, could as well been seen as having started the war in the word's classical sense. A civil war is an internal affair and justifies external intervention only in rare exceptions.

I disagree. Maybe the reports we got coming out of the former Yugoslavia were not 100% accurate, but the motivation to act to prevent crimes against humanity (genocide) is legitimate. The same impulse has led to interventions in other nasty internal situations and has not been condemned. Most recently the US-Francophonie intervention in Haiti, in the absense of genocide, simply put a stop to a very unpleasant situation for the civilian population.

	19-08-2004 14:23									#182
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

My prior post was directed at your next-to-last post, not your last post, which I disagree with.

BTW, Kerry wants the troops to stay put.

	19-08-2004 15:37									#183
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Really? I must have forgotten this. But the Russians left 1991. So why are you still here?

Hey, don't blame me! I left in 1987 and I wanted the troops to come home right after the wall fell.

	19-08-2004 15:55									#184
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't blame anyone. All I do is to applaud a right and long overdue decision and to express my joy about it, even though some here try to spoil it (without success, I may add). I even wished your troops safe travels, in case you didn't notice it. The only bad thing is, that the bases will not be disbanded entirely. I hope, to meet a decision for this last step will not take as long as the first one.

	19-08-2004 16:17									#185
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Sir Ralph, is your attitude typical of Germans?

What does the German government have to say about this?

	19-08-2004 16:23									#186
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The average attitude on my side of the fence (Bavaria) is either to shrug or to hold thumbs up (I think about fifty-fifty). I haven't heard any reaction from officials, so I guess it was a long planned move. The only reaction from politicians I heard was from one conservate (opposition), who feared it would leave Europe defenseless. Bah, what a jackass. It's a good time for Europe to put up its own military. The US demand this since long ago.

	19-08-2004 16:32									#187
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Does anyone know the history of our troop levels in Germany? Right after the war ended, we pulled out the bulk of our forces, but kept approximated 400,000 as "police" and border guards. We had several years of chaos after the war as the Nazi's put up an armed resistance.

Then the cold war started.

When I was a kid, we still had around 3-400,000 in Germany, IIRC. I think we had 125,000 or so in 1991 when the Gulf war broke out.

Our pullout has taken a lot longer than anyone forsaw. I am willing to bet that Truman originally predicted that all our forces would be withdrawn in a few years.

	19-08-2004 16:44									#188
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

A lot of forces had been withdrawn throughout the 90's already. At present, there are about 70000 left, although a substantial part of them seems to be in Iraq (I often see stickers like "Half my heart is in Iraq" or "Keep daddy safe" on US cars, as I drive through Bamberg).

	19-08-2004 18:12									#189
	Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by PLATO http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5707856/ Good thing or bad thing? I have mixed feelings...

Excellent thing. American troops weren't needed in Europe anymore, so this withdrawal is simply the sane option.

	19-08-2004 18:21									#190
	Re: Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Excellent thing. American troops weren't needed in Europe anymore, so this withdrawal is simply the sane option.

Well, it looks like the Europeans are more than comfortable with the pullout.

I wonder just what Kerry had in mine when he so strongly criticized the pullout from Germany. He typically says we have to be "sensitive" to the opinions of our "allies."

	19-08-2004 18:26									#191
	Re: Re: Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, it looks like the Europeans are more than comfortable with the pullout.

The European leftists at least, Ned. I bet Winston has different feelings.

By the way, where have you been so long? You have been missed. (I know, many others already said that)

	19-08-2004 19:25									#192
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I don't blame anyone. All I do is to applaud a right and long overdue decision and to express my joy about it, even though some here try to spoil it (without success, I may add). I even wished your troops safe travels, in case you didn't notice it. The only bad thing is, that the bases will not be disbanded entirely. I hope, to meet a decision for this last step will not take as long as the first one.

It is still useful to have the hospital over there and a base to support it. Maybe a quick attack force as well. The hospital is used for wounded troops in Iraq if you haven't noticed.

	19-08-2004 19:29									#193
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Dissident It is still useful to have the hospital over there and a base to support it. Maybe a quick attack force as well. The hospital is used for wounded troops in Iraq if you haven't noticed.

Locate your "quick attack forces" elsewhere, please. The same goes for facilities to support your illegal wars.

	19-08-2004 19:43									#194
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Locate your "quick attack forces" elsewhere, please. The same goes for facilities to support your illegal wars.

the hospital doesn't just support attack troops in Iraq. If a sailor is injured on a ship or in a navy base in Sigonella, Sicily they will fly them to Germany most likely. Though Sigonella has a clinic I believe, but not a fully capable hospital. That hospital in germany is for serious injuries.

	19-08-2004 19:44									#195
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Locate your "quick attack forces" elsewhere, please. The same goes for facilities to support your illegal wars.

Which illegal wars are these?

	19-08-2004 19:47									#196
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Don't worry Sir Ralph, its incrementalism, some here in the US don't want our troops to leave Germany for some strange reason.

	19-08-2004 19:49									#197
	Support Apolyton

quote: the hospital doesn't just support attack troops in Iraq. If a sailor is injured on a ship or in a navy base in Sigonella, Sicily they will fly them to Germany most likely. Though Sigonella has a clinic I believe, but not a fully capable hospital. That hospital in germany is for serious injuries.

And what have US soldiers lost in Sigonella, Sicily? Or anywhere else outside the US for that matter?

	19-08-2004 19:53									#198
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Which illegal wars are these?

TECHNICALLY... any military action not unanimously (?) agreed on by the UN Security Council is illegal.

Don't sweat it though - many countries do this, it's just a posturing position from those who think a world without crime would somehow be a better place.

NOT to say I think sometimes it's necessary to do this. Not good, but necessary.

	19-08-2004 20:05									#199
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: TECHNICALLY... any military action not unanimously (?) agreed on by the UN Security Council is illegal.

Resolution 1441?

	19-08-2004 20:11									#200
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Amongst others, yes...

As for the US pulling troops out from around the world - it's about time. The Warsaw Pact is no longer posed to impose Communist underwear by military means.

	19-08-2004 20:18									#201
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

My point being that Iraq wasn't illegal - there was a security council resolution.

	19-08-2004 21:04									#202
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Locate your "quick attack forces" elsewhere, please. The same goes for facilities to support your illegal wars.

I think all we're going to have in Germany when this is Done (except for a few listening posts) is the Hospital there. Surely, you aren't opposed to a freakin' Hospital?

	19-08-2004 21:27									#203
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

read the above posts. He says if it is used to treat citizens in an illegal war, then he is opposed.

That is why I countered with my post about sailors and soldiers stationed in Europe who aren't fighting a war getting sick and being flown there for treatment. That's the best hospital we have without flying all the way back to Maryland.

	19-08-2004 22:30									#204
	Re: Re: Re: Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph The European leftists at least, Ned. I bet Winston has different feelings. By the way, where have you been so long? You have been missed. (I know, many others already said that)

Ralph, It is good to know that I was missed. I had the feeling several months ago that I was very unwelcome here. You know what I mean, if you think back.

Also it hurt that for two straight Hall of Fame ballots, I didn't get a single vote.

	20-08-2004 05:00									#205
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ned Ralph, It is good to know that I was missed. I had the feeling several months ago that I was very unwelcome here. You know what I mean, if you think back.

You were missed. You are welcome here. Help is needed with these poor posters that have been overrun with liberal propoganda and lies. Your just the man to do it!

quote: Also it hurt that for two straight Hall of Fame ballots, I didn't get a single vote.

Sometimes a great artist is neglected while in his prime!

	20-08-2004 05:06									#206
	Re: Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Excellent thing. American troops weren't needed in Europe anymore, so this withdrawal is simply the sane option.

I agree that they aren't needed. That's not why I have mixed feelings. I think that all NATO countries should have reciprocal bases. The more all of our soldiers and politicians can understand each other's culture, the better it is for all of us.

While Europe is peaceful now, there is no guarantee that our allies won't need us in the future or that we won't need them.

	20-08-2004 09:15									#207
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Yes. By starting a war as usual. And an illegal one, I may add, supporting the terrorist KLA.

By preventing one, or several, as usual.

Tell that to the Russian paratroopers though.

You're welcome, by the way.

	20-08-2004 12:08									#208
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by PLATO Sometimes a great artist is neglected while in his prime!

Take Van Gogh - he was practically nobody when he died and look at him. People can't get enough of his works.

Ned, am glad to see you back.

	20-08-2004 12:52									#209
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American Worldwide Withdrawal Begins Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Ned Ralph, It is good to know that I was missed. I had the feeling several months ago that I was very unwelcome here. You know what I mean, if you think back.

I think I know what you're talking about. Sometimes you tend to resort to pretty funny trolls and BAMs, when you're cornered, that helps to provoke such situations. But that aside, you're one of my favorite conservatives, because you make me feel that you're really seriously and passionately defending your views and not merely trolling like so many others. I do respect honesty, even though I may not share your opinion.

quote: Also it hurt that for two straight Hall of Fame ballots, I didn't get a single vote.

Well, I never gave a damn about that. May be because nobody votes for me either . But I'm by far not an OT regular. May be you'd get votes if you'd show up more often.

	21-08-2004 02:36									#210
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Sometimes a great artist is neglected while in his prime!

Yes, John Williams is clearly being deprived of the praise he deserves.