19-08-2004 22:20									#91
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Kidicious: have you ever heard the quotation, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it?"

That sort of thinking is the basis of liberty.

	19-08-2004 22:21									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Strange opinion. We both agree that something is immoral but you want both of us to be free to do it. I don't understand your logic. That's because you're a ****ing retard. Go read Mill or something. Have you been living in a cave your whole life? Have you ever HEARD of this thing called liberty? Religious freedom? If I'm a Christian, should I support laws banning homosexuality? The concept of liberty is that, if your actions don't harm anyone without their concent, then I have no ****ing right to stick my nose in.

We aren't talking about things that don't hurt other people. I don't give a **** about that.

	19-08-2004 22:21									#93
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Woah, there young Kuciwalker. Chill. You might wanna think about a quick edit.

edit: too late.

-Arrian

	19-08-2004 22:22									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Answer the question, yes or no.

Your answers are making the usual sense.

	19-08-2004 22:23									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Woah, there young Kuciwalker. Chill. You might wanna think about a quick edit. edit: too late. -Arrian

Did I get DanSed?

	19-08-2004 22:25									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Kidicious: have you ever heard the quotation, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it?" That sort of thinking is the basis of liberty.

omg, you think I'm arguing against liberty in general.

	19-08-2004 22:25									#97
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No you didn't. You managed to quote the post I was talking about. My post was a suggestion that he remove the "****ing retard" insult, which is poor form.

-Arrian

	19-08-2004 22:27									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Answer the question, yes or no.

I need to know why one person is using a labor saving devise and they other isn't. That in itself isn't fair, especially when the labor saving devise allows one to make more money.

	19-08-2004 22:28									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian No you didn't. You managed to quote the post I was talking about. My post was a suggestion that he remove the "****ing retard" insult, which is poor form. -Arrian

Oh, well. It's a sure sign of the strength of his argument.

	19-08-2004 22:31									#100
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No, but it is a sign of his rising frustration. It's something I've dealt with when I've argued with you, so I sympathize.

That being said, I'm closer to you on this one than the Libertarians. I'm pro-free market under normal circumstances, but I figure if a state of emergency is declared, there should be special rules, including rules regarding price gouging.

-Arrian

	19-08-2004 22:38									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian That being said, I'm closer to you on this one than the Libertarians. I'm pro-free market under normal circumstances, but I figure if a state of emergency is declared, there should be special rules, including rules regarding price gouging. -Arrian

The question is why just price gouging. It seems biased to me to be against price gouging, but not the free market in general.

	19-08-2004 22:40									#102
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Because, Kid, I'm not an extremist (like the Libs and Commies). I can actually see shades of gray.

A natural disaster creates such a gray area where my overal system of choice (open, loosely regulated market) doesn't work as well as a different option (additional special rules for the duration of the emergency only).

It's called an exception, Kid. They do exist. Now, before I get sucked into this thread (or have I already ), I'm outta here.

-Arrian

	19-08-2004 22:41									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian No, but it is a sign of his rising frustration. It's something I've dealt with when I've argued with you, so I sympathize.

How frustrated do you think I get? I don't call people retards. I just think of a better way to explain my point. Honestly calling names is a good sign of losing an argument. It means that you are very upset about losing.

	19-08-2004 22:43									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Because, Kid, I'm not an extremist (like the Libs and Commies). I can actually see shades of gray.

Or is it that price gouging hurts you personally, where wage expoitation doesn't?

	19-08-2004 22:43									#105
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It's a good sign you should step back and consider leaving the argument. It doesn't necessarily mean you're losing (although it certainly can be that). It can just be the frustration of "debating" an opponent who irritates you, for whatever reason.

It's definitely poor form, though, as I said.

-Arrian

	19-08-2004 22:45									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian It's a good sign you should step back and consider leaving the argument.

Ask yourself why that doesn't happen.

	19-08-2004 22:49									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I need to know why one person is using a labor saving devise and they other isn't. That in itself isn't fair, especially when the labor saving devise allows one to make more money.

OK, let's see your answer in four scenarios:

1) the person is just an idiot who had no rational reason for not getting the device

2) the person would have gotten the device, but wanted to spend the money instead on a new car/computer/vacation, some other luxury.

3) the person could have bought it, but it would have been a dear sacrifice

4) the person simply couldn't afford it

	19-08-2004 22:51									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious We aren't talking about things that don't hurt other people. I don't give a **** about that.

And yet this was your response when I said that I could think insulting someone was immoral (I actually don't, but that's another issue):

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Strange opinion. We both agree that something is immoral but you want both of us to be free to do it. I don't understand your logic.

	19-08-2004 22:52									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian No, but it is a sign of his rising frustration. It's something I've dealt with when I've argued with you, so I sympathize. That being said, I'm closer to you on this one than the Libertarians. I'm pro-free market under normal circumstances, but I figure if a state of emergency is declared, there should be special rules, including rules regarding price gouging. -Arrian

That's exactly my position, Arrian.

	19-08-2004 22:54									#110
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go red sox

	19-08-2004 22:55									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker OK, let's see your answer in four scenarios: 1) the person is just an idiot who had no rational reason for not getting the device

Help him

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker 2) the person would have gotten the device, but wanted to spend the money instead on a new car/computer/vacation, some other luxury.

They should have to get the device.

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker 3) the person could have bought it, but it would have been a dear sacrifice

Help him

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker 4) the person simply couldn't afford it

Help him

	19-08-2004 22:57									#113
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Check out the quote I just got.

"I have a very strange feeling about this"

Luke Skywalker

	19-08-2004 22:58									#114
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You didn't answer my question: it was, should the person be paid more, since he or she put in more effort?

	19-08-2004 23:00									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker You didn't answer my question: it was, should the person be paid more, since he or she put in more effort?

I'm not answering that.

	19-08-2004 23:21									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Help him

If he's not capable of making competent decisions to run the enterprise, why should he be "helped" to make more bad decisions? Unless of course he's a party member?

quote: They should have to get the device.

And what if the guy is waiting because he expects there to be a better model out in a few months and it would be wasteful to get one, then the other? What if the guy is developing a superior device and wants to put his money and time in that? There may be many strategic reasons for not getting the device at a particular time. What right do you have to micromanage and compel actions in this event? This is pure Soviet-style thinking.

quote: Help him

Why should help be automatic? Maybe the guy is trying to make whatever he's making regardless of demand. Maybe he's inept. Again, there are a lot of possible reasons to do things, and the capitalist system provides opportunities to raise funding for business expansion or purchases, etc.

Help him [/QUOTE]

See above.

	19-08-2004 23:23									#117
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Why are you so down on the Party, Michael? You know that you'd be allowed to join. It's just those other saps who will be mining salt.

	19-08-2004 23:25									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker It's very easy for people to dis-associate themselves from the results of their behavior when politicians are employed to do their dirty deeds... Hell, you can't even see that you're advocating violence against the peaceful in the name of "fairness"...

Hey Berz, how's the weed in Kansas?

Since when does "violence" enter the picture? It's a friggin' fine. If someone chooses to hole up and have a shootout at the OK Corral rather than pay a fine for violating a law they knew they were violating, then that person is making a choice, and is certainly not "peaceful."

	19-08-2004 23:25									#119
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MtG,

The reason I'm avoiding the question is because it really has nothing to do with the system that I advocate. I'm not interested in trying to figure out what would possibly be fair in a capitalist system.

He should recieve the same pay for the same amount of work and effort. That's my answer. Take it or leave it.

	19-08-2004 23:27									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Why are you so down on the Party, Michael? You know that you'd be allowed to join. It's just those other saps who will be mining salt.

Well, if I joined the Party, I'd have to have my henchmen lock up all the Party members who actually believe their stuff will work in the real world, then disband the party.