19-08-2004 23:28									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I'm not answering that.

Because it completely destroys your case.

	19-08-2004 23:28									#122
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Hey Berz, how's the weed in Kansas? Since when does "violence" enter the picture? It's a friggin' fine. If someone chooses to hole up and have a shootout at the OK Corral rather than pay a fine for violating a law they knew they were violating, then that person is making a choice, and is certainly not "peaceful."

Oooohh. Berz is weaving a tangled web in this one.

	19-08-2004 23:29									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Because it completely destroys your case.

I can't answer that one. It's that simple. If you want to destroy my case you will have to find some other way.

	19-08-2004 23:42									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Why don't you just make the point you were trying to make? Assume I say that he should be paid equally for his labor regardless of his output, even though I've said that I don't believe in that numerous times. See why I can't answer that question?

	19-08-2004 23:59									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious MtG, The reason I'm avoiding the question is because it really has nothing to do with the system that I advocate. I'm not interested in trying to figure out what would possibly be fair in a capitalist system. He should recieve the same pay for the same amount of work and effort. That's my answer. Take it or leave it.

How about "the same pay for the same amount of effective work or effort?" - then you're on to something.

	20-08-2004 00:07									#127
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Well, if I joined the Party, I'd have to have my henchmen lock up all the Party members who actually believe their stuff will work in the real world, then disband the party.

MtG = Stalin

	20-08-2004 00:10									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why don't you just make the point you were trying to make? Assume I say that he should be paid equally for his labor regardless of his output, even though I've said that I don't believe in that numerous times. See why I can't answer that question?

Yes, because any answer you give would either be inconsistent with the above claim or with this:

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious No. The value of labor is not the wage they are paid or the market price of what they produce. It's the amount of labor they put in.

	20-08-2004 00:11									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious He should recieve the same pay for the same amount of work and effort. That's my answer. Take it or leave it.

So you DON'T support communism?

	20-08-2004 00:28									#130
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Kid, deal with it, Kuciwalker just made you look like a fool. You are basically saying "I can't answer your question because any answer I give would destroy my position." That's the whole point of the question

	20-08-2004 00:30									#131
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat How about "the same pay for the same amount of effective work or effort?" - then you're on to something.

Fine, as long as both producers have equal access to tools.

	20-08-2004 00:32									#132
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So now your supporting Wal-Mart?

	20-08-2004 00:32									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why don't you just make the point you were trying to make? Assume I say that he should be paid equally for his labor regardless of his output, even though I've said that I don't believe in that numerous times. See why I can't answer that question? Yes, because any answer you give would either be inconsistent with the above claim or with this: quote: Originally posted by Kidicious No. The value of labor is not the wage they are paid or the market price of what they produce. It's the amount of labor they put in.

Look, I answered you. I said it's not fair if they don't have access to the same tools.

	20-08-2004 00:32									#134
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What if there are fewer tools than people who want access to those tools?

	20-08-2004 00:33									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Look, I answered you. I said it's not fair if they don't have access to the same tools.

That's not what I asked. I asked, should the other person be paid more, because he put in more effort, or paid less, because he produced less?

	20-08-2004 00:34									#136
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb So you DON'T support communism?

Why does there have to be one type of communism? All kinds of people believe in all kinds of capitalism, and no one hasles them.

	20-08-2004 00:35									#137
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Yes they do!

	20-08-2004 00:36									#138
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quote: Look, I answered you. I said it's not fair if they don't have access to the same tools.

Ah, the old "unlimited resources" fallacy

	20-08-2004 00:36									#139
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Kid, deal with it, Kuciwalker just made you look like a fool. You are basically saying "I can't answer your question because any answer I give would destroy my position." That's the whole point of the question

It's not going to destroy my position. I've already said that the question really doesn't make much sense anyway. What if I asked you if the sky was orange or purple, when the sky was blue? Would you feel compeled to answer?

	20-08-2004 00:37									#140
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Ah, the old "unlimited resources" fallacy

Beat ya to it

	20-08-2004 00:38									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That's not what I asked. I asked, should the other person be paid more, because he put in more effort, or paid less, because he produced less?

And that depends on if they have equal access to tools. What's the dang problem?

	20-08-2004 00:39									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why does there have to be one type of communism? All kinds of people believe in all kinds of capitalism, and no one hasles them.

In this forum you get pretty much hassled for anything.

	20-08-2004 00:39									#143
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Ah, the old "unlimited resources" fallacy

Unlimited is not the same as equal access.

	20-08-2004 00:42									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Yes they do!

I rarely, if ever, see capitalists called communists for advocating more, but not absolute, economic equality.

	20-08-2004 00:44									#145
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Ok, how about this. If there aren't enough tools for every producer to use the lessor tool producers should get the same compensation. Let's move forward. Make your point already.

	20-08-2004 00:48									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why does there have to be one type of communism? All kinds of people believe in all kinds of capitalism, and no one hasles them.

So you believe in Capitalist Communism?

	20-08-2004 00:48									#147
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DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!

Thread morphing into capitalism vs. communism ten(thousand). Run away. Find shelter! Seek HELP!

-Arrian

	20-08-2004 00:48									#148
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You just made our point.

	20-08-2004 00:50									#149
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb So you believe in Capitalist Communism?

Nope

	20-08-2004 00:51									#150
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker You just made our point.

omg, you don't have anymore teeth to pull. What is your point?!